Posted By
Finland C16 User
on 2009-11-12
22:01:01
|  There is no 16k only support
Hello all.
This is my first post here. Anyways, I want to ask you people - and all that are interested in the Commodore 16 or Plus/4 in some form or another.. to take part in a little experiment, which would immediately enlighten the user of my point. Try to grab games like
- Robin to the Rescue
- Jetbrix
- Arthur Noid
- Invaders Livewire
Then set YAPE from "Configuration" menu to utilize only 16 k of memory.
Then try to get those games to work with that setup. Also, try to get them to work by making a D64 diskette and importing those games into it and loading them as PRG files.
After this experiment you are probably as frustrated and confused as I am - WHY are there no C16k-friendly versions as PRG files of games? Only TAP-games work with that Yape setting directly, and -some- games, like Berks and Aardvark.
I have noticed that whenever the PRG file on the disk is exactly 49 blocks, it's almost guaranteed to work. If it's over that, it's never going to work. If it's something like 35 or 48, it -might- work (like Thrust, for example), but most of the cases I tried, it didn't.
My guess is that those PRG releases are for Plus/4, and not meant to be used with 16k limitation (although they were programmed for 16k originally.. the irony!) , and the TAP files are supposed to work with 16k limitation.
But what about us who have a real C16 and a 1541 disk drive for it? I don't have a datassette for the C16, or an adapter so I could use one of my 1530 datassettes.. so you can understand how this makes it extremely tough to compile a nice disk full of games and make them work with the real C16.
I don't mind there being so many Plus/4-only-versions of the games (notice how they immediately start working once you crank up the memory from 16k in Yape..), if there could ALSO be 16k working versions. I mean, it shouldn't be impossible, I have been able to find some with heavy hunting from various ftp-sites etc.. and usually they are the ones requiring a sys.
Also with Robin to the Rescue, I had to actually extract the PRG files from a TAP image, a bit unsuccessfully (as I am not a coder, I don't understand a lot of the stuff those extracters show).. I took two of the PRG files (there were three), and tried to convert the SYS from the hex code that looks like the program COULD start there..
Also I need to load the second prg file first, and then the other file, otherwise the title graphics are just random crap. Of course now the SCORE and all are unreadable mess, but at least the game works. It starts with sys4112 and brings you immediately to the beginning of the first level. One of the bricks also flashes a bit.
Does it really need to be this difficult? Couldn't there be an easier alternative for getting 16k-support for PRG files? Why is it so arbitrary anyway -- some games are exactly 49 blocks and work just fine, some games are like 51 or something, and are impossible to get working unless using those TAP extracters (with varying results and lots of work and guesswork with the SYS etc..)...
I am just wondering if there might be something I am missing here, some easier way to get all this done.. Let the 16k programs WORK with a 16k system, that's all I ask!
Sincerely,
A Finland C16 user
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-11-12
22:59:57
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Hi there!
Your post boils down to this question: "WHY are there no C16k-friendly versions as PRG files of games?" The simple answer is: no-one bothered creating them (yet). 
As you pointed out, TAP files will work, those are what you should be using. They are the originals, the real intended way for those games to be preserved. The PRG files exist, because someone (illegally) cracked the games. This will get a little technical: these games do a lot of "funny" things in order to maximize the available memory, such as loading routines to the "low" memory areas. That's problematic for PRG files, since they normally load to address $1001 (anything below that is what we consider low). The easiest way to "crack" the games is to put that extra code above $4000, which is where the C16's memory and the games end, and write a little copy routine that restores them, then starts the game. Voila, a Plus/4 only (but working!) crack of the C16 game. The mentality is: EVERYONE has a Plus/4, or an extended C16, don't they? (And of course everyone uses only PAL, don't get me started on that one  )
Keep in mind though how old those games are. The PRG files are from that era. Of course, with the tools we have available today, it's possible to create better cracks. Mostly it just boils down to compression, something as awesome as Exomizer was unimaginable in the good old days. Funny you should bring this up, one of my many hobbies is to create "proper" C16 cracks. I've made a few which may be worth checking out: Sun Star and Splitz. Both are actually better than the original, because they include the title screen plus the game all in one
But creating those take time and effort... Plus some would argue that they are not "real", they are hacks. Well, the current PRGs are hacks as well, but they are closer to the original than the compressed files. Second, it's difficult to keep track of the newer versions. We control our site at least, but if everyone else has a different PRG, the new one needs to be marked and catalogued separately. Is it worth it?
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-11-13
07:31:57
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I also thought a lot about creating hacked PRG version of games that originally did work on the C16. It may even turn out relatively simple, because most of the time the crackers were lazy to care. How about compiling a full list of programs? I think it is a nice exercise to fix one of them every once in a while.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2009-11-13
11:12:05
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
I totally (totally) agree with this one. I actually nearly made a post on this myself a few weeks back. Not sure what held me back.
I own an unupgraded C16, and I also found many of the C16 game images which were compatible on original cassette don't work for the real machine. I'm now awaiting for a 64K upgrade to become available just to play many of the games. I use a 1541mk2 drive with parallel cable to transfer the .prg images.
I took it that the people who cracked it did so on the plus4, and maybe added their own credit demo notes to it taking it over the C16 memory limits.
Sometimes though where the .prg files won't work, I've found that the .D64 image does, such as Tom Thumb.
It would be a worthwhile ongoing project to make all C16 games actually work on the machine, it doesn't matter whether it's a crack or not, so long as it works, and of course it should still be compatible with the plus4. It will also make the library feel more complete, as it's not just about the plus4, the c16 or the c116. It's about the whole 264 series in general.
I know a project like this would take a long time, but after a little while it will start becoming more noticable and I guess it will be viewed as yet another challenge. Like this 1kb game contest is a challenge too and that's less important for the community.
If I was a programmer, I'd attempt it myself.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-11-13
14:19:49
| Re: There is no 16k only support
You can check those four again. Arthur Noid and Invaders were fine, I fixed the other two.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-11-13
15:33:57
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
Hi,
Just a few sentences. Based on my past experiences I thought almost everone upgarded their C-16 to 64K, as all of my friends (including me) did it, or owned a Plus/4.
Due to some reasons I prefer the C-16 keyboard, and I was looking in ebay and Vatera (local ebay) for C16 configs. I was really surprised, that almost 90% of the C-16s (and certainly those configs were the most complete ones) we not upgarded (not to mention the several ones had broken down PSU. BTW: does it easy to plug anything standard into C16 power plug?).
So, as this place one of the definite place for programs, if you own one of those C-16 PCs, and nowadays it is almost impossible to work out a memory upgarde, this point is completely valid. Because of that I will surely buy ONLY 64K C-16
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-11-16
16:17:33
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Nice job, Csabo. Another thing sprung to my mind: as I recall, old compressors (or "compacter"-s ) were notoriously +4 only.
So, as soon as you "zipped" an old <49 block game, even though it became even smaller than 12kb, it was actually not able to run on a vanilla C16 any longer. This was because the decompressor routine first copied up everything to the end of the expanded (=64kb) RAM which is $FCFF. That is obviously impossible on a C16 (although this address effectively translates to $3CFF, so there is a remote chance that in some rare cases it may actually work).
So one easy fix is to just get rid of the compressing, look for the JMP call in the decompressor code on a 64kb machine (or emulator) and rewrite it to $F445 (jump to monitor). Then you can usually save it directly from BASIC DSAVE or checking $9D/$9E for the end address and use monitor 'S "blah" 8 1000 endaddress'.
I am not sure what recent xplatform compressors exactly do though... (PuCrunch, Exomizer, etc.) so your mileage may vary there, but again there are not that many cracks with those either (if at all).
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Posted By
TLC
on 2009-11-17
09:59:33
| Re: There is no 16k only support
MMS: The C-16 and the 116 can be powered from an unregulated 9V DC power supply (the original one is rated 800 milliamps, anything that can cope with that is fine). All Spectrum power supplies (excluding the +3) are fine, too (they're essentially similar, including the PSU plug and polarity). You can also get the original PSU back to life most of the time (unless it's physically broken)... you only have to replace the Graetz bridge (the rectifier) which is usually broken.
Guys: back then I spent about a year working with an un-expanded C-16 (before I could persuade my parents to have my machine expanded to 64k ). I can say that virtually "all" C-16 specific games "did" just work on the unexpanded machine (...needless to say, I had absolutely no originals but cracked games only). IMHO this "most cracked C-16 games don't work on C-16 anymore"-effect must generally be a result of applying packers to these programs (...I'd second Gaia's words, most old unpacker routines didn't honour the memory configuration of the computer, they just assumed 64K and did accordingly...).
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Posted By
Finland C16 User
on 2009-11-17
16:16:48
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thank you so very much, Csabo!
You are correct of course - I am sorry, I was a bit hasty, as I didn't actually test Arthur Noid (just saw that it was different from 49 blocks, and at that point I had concluded that only 49 blocks exactly works, because that had been my experience that far), and perhaps that Space Invaders Livewire didn't work because of some other thing like disk error (I have some problems with either the disks or the drive too, which kinda adds to the frustration of course)..
Well, after all this information I feel much more hopeful and I want to thank all of you for replying so quickly and giving so much valuable information, insights and knowledge about the Commodore 16's magical world. So - thank you!
I am trying to get a datassette, so I can just 'burn' those tape images into real tapes - that way I can perhaps get all games working.. and it's the nice and relaxed genuine way to use an older computer like C16 anyway, perhaps. Though I think it's pretty cool how the 1541 works with it so nicely and all the C64 disk commands seem to work too! I wonder why there even IS command like 'dload', when the C64 load command works just as well..
Meanwhile I am trying to compile a 'perfect disk', one that first of all works perfectly, and only has working games on it - trying to compile a 'personal favorites' nostalgy and also good gameplay pack for myself..
So far I have got these games to work:
- Berks
- Berks III
- Major Blink
- Mr. Puniverse (this was my first game)
- Jetbrix
- Robin to the Rescue (well, obviously after CSabo's fix)
- Formula One Simulator (I can't get enough of playing this)
- Arthur Noid (the music is very annoying though, I wish I could somehow disconnect it)
- Thrust
- Fire Ant
- Aardvark
- Prospector Pete
Hoping to get these games to work next - haven't yet tried much except one version, so there's still hope..
- Space Pilot
- Atlantis
- Pacmania
Many of the nonworking game versions seem to exhibit symptoms that support the theories that have been given here, specifically that "compression makes 16k not working", since many of those seem to be uncompressing after RUN .. the screen flashes a bit like with C64 uncompressing, and then - nothing.
Though of course C16 flashes in a more pretty way because it has more colors .. (-8
It's a lot of fun making short BASIC programs with C16 with all it's colors and graphic commands etc.. if only it had sprites, SID and the 64k memory, then everything would've been so much greater.
But I digress - I wanted to just thank everyone here, you are very kind and informative, and I want to humbly bow to each and every one of you good people. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Finland C16 User
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-11-17
17:55:37
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
Well, the disk commands are inhereted from the bigger CBM machines (BASIC 4.0).
I'm glad we have them because DIRECTORY works much better then LOAD"$",8 Also RENAME is much more obvious than the somewhat cryptic command strings one has to use on C64. Leave alone you don't have to worry about OPENing channels, etc.
I can help you with Arthur Noid:
Load the game (you said you got it to work) and start it.
Now press RUN/STOP (keep it depressed) and RESET the C16. Now you are in MONITOR.
Enter:
>3287 2C [RETURN]
>32D1 2C [RETURN]
G2000 [RETURN to restart the game]
... and voilà, enjoy the silence
If you want to keep the modified game, do this before re-starting it:
S"ARTHUR MUTE",08,1000,3FFF [RETURN]
(Make sure you have a disk with 49 free blocks inserted!)
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-11-17
18:13:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
BTW, I liked Arthur Noid music very much, the first one tried to simulate drums at a certain success
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-11-17
18:36:41
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The in-game tune is kinda annoying, though Nevertheless, the other one is ok and definitely better than nothing.
I just wanted to keep the "fix" simple. Plus, most ppl spend more time playing the game than watching the title screen (with me it was usually the other way around if it had some cool tune :D ).
Btw, Finland C16 User, thanks for reporting back It's good to get some feedback.
And you can (maybe should ) send a mail to Csabo and request a login.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-11-17
19:40:55
| Re: There is no 16k only support
No problem, if there's a list, I can probably fix the remaining ones when I have some downtime. Regarding Arthur Noid: you guys do know that the music can be muted by pressing shift? If you turn on Shift/Lock, it stays like that too (but you can still hear the sound effects).
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Posted By
Finland C16 User
on 2009-11-18
01:56:22
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Oh man, you are right agai, CSabo! Thanks again, man - this is great - that shift lock trick really .. well, did the trick! (-8
Thanks also to you, Chicken - I am sorry you had to go through such trouble because of me and then that shift lock-thing worked so well anyway..
MMS, it was the ingame tune that I meant, it was ear-piercing when I had volume too high..
Hm, there seem to be quite many PRGs that actually work (mostly those with a SYS), but then there are some that I can't find a working version of anywhere.
I am thinking that perhaps it could be somehow possible to make a separate section for PRG's that work with 16k, and for those that are only working with more memory - or some kind of visual separation system in the page, so it would be easier to see which file to download (my Windows 98-machine, which handles my x1541-cable-stuff has annoying habit of halting everything for a few seconds every time I download something, and thus it's very slow downloading multiple files), and also it would be immediately obvious which games don't work, so no one would have to bother even downloading them if they need them to work with 16k. Perhaps the filesize could be shown at least, or something.. from there it's easy to spot at least those that will definitely not work.
I did get Pacmania to work, but not Space Pilot, Commando or Atlantis. It's just a matter of luck I guess, where a D64 file or about 12k PRG file exists, a game usually works. But if it's a smaller prg or a larger one, it obviously won't work.
I wonder if it would be possible to make a PRG->16k-working-PRG-converter program? Even a crossplatform tool, like a Windows program or something.. then I could download whatever games I wish to try, then after downloading some version of all of them, I could just run them through that program and voilá; I would get working versions of those games.
I hate to bother Csabo for every game that comes to my mind.. I have a bad memory and I am fast in forgetting things, so I am always bound to forget something if I try to compose a full list..
I also got some version of Commando working though, it's called "G-Man Byte 1" or something like that.. (that's the filename I created, so I forgot the original, actual name of it, heh)
I also have run into pretty great 'new' games that I haven't played before but are really addictive! That Invaders Livewire is great, and then the other G-Man game is absolutely wonderful (but very tough) .. I think that one has pretty kewl explosion sound when you bump into something.
Oh by the way - Chicken, I know exactly what you mean by watching the title screen.. I always enjoy an atmospheric title screen, especially with neat musics! And I appreciate your gratefulness about my humble reports, and I am willing to report more in the future, as much as there is to report. .things seem to be stabilizing now, and soon I have copied most of my old favorite classics on diskettes.. perhaps I will even get that datassette - then I can just easily 'burn' TAPs into real cassettes..
Do you guys have (just by the way) recommendations on some games which would really show off the C16's colors and capabilities? I know many of them do that I already listed, but I'd like to see more of those neat copper-effect-like rasterbars and such.
Also, what do you think, would it be possible to convert some Atari 2600 game or games into an accurate Commodore 16-conversion? I mean, thinking that both systems have very little memory but a lot of colors (except that C16 has a lot more memory of course), and C16 is newer and perhaps more powerful with it's CPU.. could it be possible? Of course the neat Atari 2600 sounds couldn't be faithfully reproduced, but I am sure some games could be pretty nicely converted with lots of hard work.
What do you guys think? Would it be an impossible task, or would you consider it 'doable'? (depending on the game of course, I suppose - how about a game like 'Cosmic Ark', for example..)
Thanks again for your friendliness and kindness, your guides and information, your opinions and gratitude, I am very grateful to you people, you have given me immense amount of hope and understanding that really make my Commodore 16 experience a heavenly one!
Sincerely,
Finland C16 User
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Posted By
Finland C16 User
on 2009-11-18
02:04:43
| Re: There is no 16k only support
"I'm glad we have them because DIRECTORY works much better then LOAD"$",8 Also RENAME is much more obvious than the somewhat cryptic command strings one has to use on C64. Leave alone you don't have to worry about OPENing channels, etc."
Yes, I only meant that those 'extra' commands weren't really that necessary, so they perhaps could have upgraded the hardware instead with the effor that went into that.. or something. I'd much rather have more sound channels, better (or actually even 'A') sound chip and more memory, sprite capability etc. than 'dload' and 'directory' (and I couldn't load some games with 'dload' anyway, but with load"game",8,1 they worked - I mean I could LOAD them but the games didn't work)..
But I have to say, having 'directory' is great in the respect that it doesn't replace the program with the listing, like load"$",8 does .. I mean, if you are making a BASIC program and wish to know what's on the disk, you won't lose the program - so that way it's handy for sure.
Though it's a bit useless to have that 'dload' command in the function key, when trying to load something from a directory listing.. it's much handier to just type it actually, because the quotation mark makes it impossible to move the cursor to the right so you can remove the 'prg' or add an ':' so the load command will be understood instead of displaying an error.. would be more handy if it was the way it is in C64's Final Cartridge or Action Replay modules, you just press the loading function key and the game starts loading immediately..
Of course it's good for beginners to have more simple commands.. but I don't know if "COLOR 4,0,0" is any more user-friendly than "POKE 53280,0" .. I like them both anyway (:
- Finland C16 User
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-11-18
07:38:57
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
Finland C16 User:
>But what about us who have a real C16 and a 1541 disk drive for it?
-------------
I join You on that one.
I have C=116 with a diskdrive.
Btw, I wonder if the same problem goes for demos too. I have to check it out. However I rather doubt.
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-11-18
08:05:24
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Sixteen Plus:
>It would be a worthwhile ongoing project to make all C16 games actually work on the
>machine, it doesn't matter whether it's a crack or not, so long as it works
--------
Sure thing.
After over 20 years...
It's simply important the 16K programs work on 16K machines.
And as for the upgrades: they're not so easy to get as one might think.
I wrote about it to http://www.commodore16.com/ with no response at all.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-11-18
09:57:49
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Finland C16 User...
DLOAD loads file to the BASIC START (which is usually $1001). Some MC programs which start with a BASIC Line (usually something like "10 SYS4112") can be loaded with DLOAD. However, other MC programs start at $1000 or somewhere else. If you load them with DLOAD, they are automatically loaded to $1001, so they can't work.
Many MC programs (usually those which you have to start with entering a SYS address) have to be loaded absolutely, which means LOAD"GAME",8,1.
Btw, DLOAD is the same as LOAD"NAME",8 <- which also loads program to the BASIC START.
Now another trick you might not have known which will show the usefulness of the F2-Key (DLOAD")
DIRECTORY
Then move the cursor to the program you want to load (must be one that is DLOADable).
Press F2 to get DLOAD"
Now press ESC+"K". (C16's "ESC" is not "ESC" on the PC-Keyboard, on my German layout it's the key left of "1".)
This moves the cursor to the end of the line. Now hit DEL,DEL,SPACE to overwrite "PRG" and hit RETURN to load the program. Once you get used to this procedure, you will like it
You can also save programs in such away, that they have a ":" after the filename. This makes DLOADing even easier.
Try this with a BASIC program.
DSAVE"NAMEx:"
Replace the "x" with a SHIFTED SPACE. Hit RETURN to save and look at the DIRECTORY
Now you just have to press F2 and hit RETURN in the DIRECTORY.
Edit:
About muting "ARTHUR NOID"... No problem... it only took 3min (which I should have spent reading the instructions or trying to press SHIFT :D).
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-11-18
14:20:32
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Commando, Space Pilot and Atlantis are now up on our site as proper C16 PRG files. The first two were nothing, but Atlantis on the other hand... Very tricky protection and well done game. I'm not sure how it was first cracked using only the real machine. With emulators it was still hard, and I don't think without the use of Exo it would have been possible to make a single PRG out of it.
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Posted By
Finland C16 User
on 2009-11-18
21:57:54
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Wow, Csabo - you are a true maestro! Amazing... They all work now - I feel like I wish to somehow repay you for all your trouble. So if you can think of a good way, I am at your disposal, if I can.
Chicken - thanks for all those neat tricks, but I guess the C64-style of loading has crept up into my spine and embedded itself there so deep that it's hard for me to get used to these more fancy ways of loading stuff.. especially since my spine cord-way works so well.
And yeah, I kinda thought DLOAD might be the equivalent of LOAD"program",8 ... but I didn't have as deep knowledge of the addresses and all, thanks for clearing that up also.
It's just so sad.. there is so much neatness, and colorful magic about the C16 - with only a few slight modifications it could've been what the C64 was..
I wonder how Atari 800 and Commodore 16 would compare.. both share colorfulness and some 'flaws' or more like 'design-wise inferiority to C64' in similar fashion I think.. though perhaps the Atari 800 has more powerful CPU, which enables all those great 3D things like Yoomp! and Numen..
But back to the Loading discussion - actually, I like typing with those old machines, so I don't mind typing those commands instead of using the handy function key shortcuts. I mean, those tricks would be so much hitting the keys anyway that it's almost easier to just type the whole thing (-8
And of course I rather load with the ,8,1-thing just to be sure the game works.. I have many SYS-versions so I guess there's really no altenative anyhow.
Nice to find people who still use the Commodore 16 .. I wonder if people will say the same thing about playing chess or cards some day in the future.. I would like these older computers to achieve same 'Timeless'-status as the cards, poker, chess and other boardgames. Why don't people call THOSE things just 'nostalgic retro games' etc.?
- Finland C16 User
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-11-19
03:32:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Finland C16 User:
>I feel like I wish to somehow repay you for all your trouble. So if you can think of a good
>way, I am at your disposal, if I can.
---------------------
BEWARE. :->
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-11-19
14:57:00
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thanks for the kind words Nah, I don't need anything. I hang around here a lot and pour a lot of work into the site and other Plus/4 related activities because to me it's fun. It's usually even more fun when I know that whatever I do will be appreciated. So in a way, I'm happy you asked for these games to be fixed, it should be done anyway, and someone is actually playing them. Win-win
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-11-19
15:02:48
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Csabo: I recall that later Anirog turbos (Moon Buggy, Tom) were very tough to crack. Atlantis, too, though one day a friend of mine walked in with a complete HOWTO on the cracking of the Anirog loader.
Finland: if you want to show off the C16's vivid colours and capabilities, perhaps it is a good idea to transfer the 8 shades of black trackmo that the entire community has put together a couple of years ago.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-10
22:38:31
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I wanted to mention that I did a proper C16-compatible PRG file for Ikari Warriors, Robo Knight and Xadium (excellent games, BTW). You can grab them from our site. Are there any more important ones that need this kind of a fix?
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-04-17
16:21:35
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I posted about this on commodore16.com too making a list of all downloadable C16 game images that will either NOT work on an unexpanded C16 (when it should) or is unavailable for an unexpanded C16 in .PRG format. I might have missed a couple or three but not many.
A.C.E 16 (Cascade Games)
Atlantis (Anirog)
Beach Head (US Gold)
BMX Simulator (Codemasters)
Bombjack - Side A and Side B (Elite)
Bombjack 2 (Elite)
Circus (Adventure International)
Cuthbert Enters The Tombs Of Doom (Microdeal)
Diamond Mine (Blue Ribbon)
Diamond Mine 2 (Blue Ribbon)
Exploding Fist 16 (Melbourne House)
Finders Keepers (Mastertronic)
Gremlins 16 (Adventure International)
Hellgate (Llamasoft)
Ikari Warriors (Elite)
Indoor Soccer (Magnificent 7 Software)
Indoor Sports (Tynesoft)
Invaders (Livewire)
Jetbrix (only italian hack works) (Gremlin Graphics)
Jet Set Willy 2 (Tynesoft)
Kikstart (Mastertronic)
Las Vegas (Anirog)
Magician's Curse (Gremlin Graphics)
Molecule Man (Mastertronic)
Monty On The Run (Gremlin Graphics)
Panik (Atlantis Software)
Paperboy (Elite)
Petch (Anirog)
Robo Knight (Americana Software)
Space Pilot (Kingsoft)
Spiderman (Adventure International)
Spore (Bulldog)
Starburst (Ariolasoft)
Steve Davis Snooker (CDS Software)
Storm (Mastertronic)
Ten Little Indians (Adventure International)
Terra Nova (Anco) (C16 version needed as .D64 file)
Thai Boxing (Anco)
Thrust (Firebird) (a .prg version of the revised update is welcome too)
Tom Thumb (Anirog)
Trailblazer (Gremlin Graphics)
Tube Runner (Gremlin Graphics)
Video Classics (Silverbird Software)
Viduzzles (is there a tape copy?) (Commodore)
Voidrunner (Llamasoft)
Wacky Painter (Tynesoft)
Xadium (Mastertronic)
Xargon's Revenge (Gremlin Graphics)
Zagan Warrior (Bug Byte)
Zodiac (Anirog)
So, not quite as many games as people think. But it would be nice to have at least a hack for them so they will work.
Edit from 10/04/2010 - Time: 23:49:28 original post:
Correction: I missed bloody loads.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-04-11
05:43:42
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
Keep me informed on this thread, the, in order to change on the ftp archive too.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-11
07:55:31
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Cool, I didn't know others were working on this! I certainly have other stuff to code
Sixteen Plus, you can knock off a few from your list that's posted above then: Atlantis, Jetbrix and Space Pilot were done last year, plus the 3 I did last night.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-11
14:08:47
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Hi Csabo.
The games you mention are .TAP images aren't they?
The problem is that it's very difficult to retransfer them to play on a real unexpanded C16. I figure that most people with C16's have them unexpanded. I've seen more unexpanded C16's come up on ebay than expanded anyway.
I know I'm lucky enough to have a plus4 as well now, but what people need are either .D64 images or preferably .PRG images for C16 so people can copy them directly to floppy.
I think this is the most single important project right now for the 264 series.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-11
15:52:38
| Re: There is no 16k only support
No, I wasn't talking about .TAP images. Those are the real originals, so of course the run on real C16 computers. We're talking about .PRG files, it's mentioned explicitly in many places above (although I realize this is a long topic to read through).
So, when you posted about this on the other site, did you get many responses? Who's working on this?
Edit: meanwhile I'm done with ACE, Beach Head, BMX Simulator and Panik!. Also Bomb Jack (both sides).
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-11
20:05:24
| Re: There is no 16k only support
oops, apologies. I was in a bit of a rush earlier.
I obviously also clicked on the wrong .PRG download link too. Maybe a quick mention that the plus4world link works on unexpanded C16's might help people know which is which.
Well there hasn't really been much a response about it. Chris who owns the site was going to have a go on it when time became available, but work commitments, family life and moving home is naturally taking up his time right now. I unfortunately have little idea on how to do it.
Thanks for taking the time on these, many will appreciate your work :)
Here's a link to the topic on commodore16.com.
www.commodore16.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=826
It's a stickied locked topic, the plan is to tick them off one by one.
All I need now is for my new power supply to quickly arrive so I can transfer to my 1541.
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Posted By
Chris
on 2010-04-12
08:43:06
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Its that deadly enemy called time which is always against us. I've only managed to work on one title, Monty on the Run. Which is now fully C16 (16k) compatible. One I get it off the 5 1/4 floppy, I'll email it across to Csabo/Luca to upload to Plus4 world as well as http://www.commodore16.com
I'm hoping I'll have enough time to do some more later this week.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-04-12
10:21:17
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I'm behind your steps guys, all done on the ftp.
An help is welcome, but have to admit in my opinio a standard way to fix'em would be desirable, and Csabo is doing a very good job!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-04-12
11:22:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Uh! New Bombjack II version 16K with instructions' screen! Cool! 
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-04-12
11:53:28
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Circus 16K!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-12
16:00:23
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I'm continuing in alphabetical order. I've done the two mentioned above by Luca, Cuthbert, Diamon Mines and Exploding Fist (that last one was tough). I'll update this post with more when I'm done.
Edit: forget what I said about any of the above ones being tricky... Finders Keepers is where it's at. The game is from $0200-$4000 :-O (Well, almost, from $500-$7FF it doesn't store anything.) I won't get too much into the technicals, but it was tough, I had to write a separate RLE compressor that works "in place". That way everything could be packed in from above $800, and Exo did the rest.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-12
18:48:18
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Great work
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-14
22:08:17
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Did Gremlins, Hellgate, Jet Set Willy II, Kikstart, Magician's Curse, Molecule Man, Monty on the Run, Paperboy, Petch, Spiderman and Starburst. For now I skipped a few that are harder to do.
Space Pilot was done last year, but it's not on Othersi yet.
I'm not sure what Krakout (Gremlin Graphics) is. Jetbrix and Las Vegas (Anirog) already work.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-04-15
10:16:56
| Re: There is no 16k only support
All changed. I forgot to put up Space Pilot...
Monty On The Run looks still nonworking on 16k...
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-15
11:43:08
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Nice work guys, this is a very important step in the right direction for the C16 community and you know it's very appreciated. We naturally both work hand in hand together (especially at how small a scene we are anyway). I've updated the topic.
http://www.commodore16.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=826
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-15
17:17:28
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I probably just forgot to upload Monty, I'll do that soon.
Meanwhile I did: Steve Davis Snooker, Storm, Thai Boxing, Tube Runner, Video Classics, Wacky Painter and Zodiac.
Sixteen Plus, a few things: you didn't mark Cuthbert, Diamond Mines (both), Exploding Fist and a few more. I mentioned that I did those 5 posts above. Can you please go through the remaining items on your list and check if they are working? The updated list will help me to know what to work on next. Also, I still need an anwer for what Krakout (Gremlin Graphics) is.
Edit: done with Tom Thumb and Zagan Warrior.
Edit2: done with Indoor Soccer. Also, Thrust was already working.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-16
14:21:23
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Great stuff. I've updated the topic.
You can add Invaders (Limewire) to the pain-list, as I overlooked it in Finland C16 User's opening message here. Pacmania will need testing too, unfortunately I'm not at home to test it myself. Apologies..
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-04-16
14:39:32
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Invaders (Livewire) has been changed to run on 16K months ago.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-16
15:54:20
| Re: There is no 16k only support
ok. i couldn't test it today to find out as i'm currently away.
my drive packed up last week, great timing huh? i just bought another 1541 drive, but the beige original this time. cheers for the link chris. it costed £46 inc p&p. these things aren't cheap are they?
looking especially forward to a bash at ikari warriors when it arrives
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-18
16:52:08
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Done with Indoor Sports. Since it's a multi-loader, I created a D64 file.
Sixteen Plus: I hate to ask it for a 3rd time... but apparently you're either not reading my messages or you keep forgetting to answer this specific question. It's right above twice already in my previous posts. What is Krakout (Gremlin Graphics)? It's on your list, but I don't know this game.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2010-04-18
17:37:43
| Re: There is no 16k only support
There could be only one option, the Krackout, which is enlisted as 16K game, but not done by Gremlin.
The original Krakout on C64 (was really done be Gremlin), and the re-written version by TCFS on plus/4 would never in life would fit into 16K due to extended graphics and music.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-19
11:08:39
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Sorry Csabo. I had it in my head that Krakout was available for our machine at that time. Obviously I got it wrong. I'll delete it off the list.
Nice job with Indoor Sports btw. You and Lando are both legends, and just as much important to us now as Sout and Udo were then, This is very quick work by you both. I feel quite humbled being just a mere moany gamer by comparision
Edit: Just got home after a long weekend away, double-checked and realised Auf Wiedersehen Monty was OK after all, oops again.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-19
21:12:30
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Right, both Monty's should be fine now. So, let's see what's remaining on your list. Some were already working: Invaders (Livewire), Las Vegas (listed as Las Vegas Jackpot (Anirog)), Monty on the Run, Ten Little Indians, Trailblazer, Voidrunner, Xargon's Revenge. I have just done Pacmania.
That leaves three games. Spore and Terra Nova (which are tricky, but may be doable), plus Viduzzles, which is not possible. The game code and data is already 16K (which would already not fit), plus it uses the RAM for display. That game is only playable either with 64K, or via an actual cartridge.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-19
21:58:34
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Shame about Viduzzles, but fantastic job. The list has been updated. The single most important project for the C16/116 is near to it's natural closure
...unless there's some games that were left out from the list (I shouldn't say that).
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2010-04-21
21:24:28
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I just did Who Dares Wins II, the old PRG wouldn't working on a C16. Let me know if you find any more, there's probably a couple.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2010-04-21
23:55:52
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I thought there might be more. Nice job. I've added it onto the list. I will let you know if I come across anymore
My replacement 1541 mk1 drive arrived today (thanks to commodore16.com chris for sending me the ebay link). I can now get around to putting them onto floppy. The drive might be slower but I hope it's more durable than the mkII.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-02-12
16:14:49
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thread resurrection: achieved. Well, I just wanted to mention that I've done a proper crack for Fighting Warrior (thanks to Luca for noticing). Any more?
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Posted By
Chris
on 2011-02-13
16:52:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Worthy resurrection Csabo, fantastic news 
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-02-21
19:22:57
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I knew I likely missed out some more. Excellent stuff right here
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-02-22
11:10:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
...and Blaze too.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-02-22
11:36:46
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Never seen this game before. It looks like an interesting one. Think I'll have to give it a look.
Appreciated
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-08-10
21:49:01
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Hooray for resurrecting old threads! But anyway, Purple Turtles is now 16K fixed as well.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2011-08-11
03:49:31
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
Talking of Thrust
Just had to dig this up as playing the original is one thing...
Knowing what came many years later is another.
[ Link ]
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-08-21
14:59:22
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Space Sweep now has 16K compatible PRG file as well. This one is the original, unmodified version (I love it when they have a proper SYS address, no need to modify them in any way).
Edit: Also did Aliens.
Edit: Done with Lunar Landing.
Edit: Done with Frenesis.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-12-12
05:09:01
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Obviously there were many more than just a few games left than I initially realised 
So on behalf of all 16k owners (although mine has been upgraded to 64k) who unfortunately couldn't make it tonight, I'd just like to say a huge thanks and a great job well done
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-12-16
17:07:03
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Done with Invasion 2000 AD. Don't forget to check the "new" hidden stuff Luca found in this game, pretty interesting
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-12-16
18:15:43
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Xanadu Vara got the same treatment right now Remember this game works on C16 only.
John P. Shay should have been a very weird coder indeed. Look at "Hidden Text And Oddities" in Invasion 2000 AD, or the gfx guts found in Winnie Witch's Superbroom (a real auto-hack!), or the never used dragon boss in Monkey Magic!
Yes guys, we're talking about games'easter eggs!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-15
10:51:43
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Speed King fixed and 16k-sized.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-01-21
20:08:07
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Just did Convoy and Heebie Jeebies. For the latter, we didn't have the right file... Luca noticed it and hunted down a proper copy.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-02-19
15:13:53
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Harvey Headbanger has been fixed by Csabo!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-05-19
10:08:22
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Autobahn: the .prg is now fixed to run flawlessly on plus/4 and works on 16k too.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-05-20
04:46:43
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Your doing good guys!
Funny thing about John P. Shay was that most of his games were utter pants, but going back to Invasion 2000 AD if there was one space invader game I had to choose this would be it. There is something about it, the sounds are excellent and the look, feel of how it plays is just really good! Reminds me of a game call Raider on the ZX spectrum. Very charming game! Another charming game was Robin to the Rescue which was simple yet addictive. Mind you, still to this day Quick Draw has to be one of the worst commercial games ever made, we had to pay for this!! The amount of effort it took to ride my bike to the shop, hand over the money and peddle back home again...
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2012-05-20
12:03:20
| Re: There is no 16k only support
^^^I also liked Galaxions, it was my first Solar game. It wasn't arcade perfect sure, but I just have great memories with it. Similar fondness strangely goes for Monkey Magic, and of course RTTR was great but hard.
I never realised there were so much more games that needed fixing for C16. Excellent job.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-05-23
05:33:07
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I will have to load up Galaxions for another blast and give it an honest vote with you in mind which I have not done yet! I can see where you coming from with this one, been a while!
A number of the 16k games have been compressed which is strange as they didn't take that long to load in the first place... I guess people wanted to fit more on a disc than rather save time on loading a smaller file. So for this reason they use extra memory and why they don't run on a 16K machine and hang.
A lot of 16K games you can make backup's your self. Yape can make the purest of prg files as you don't have to do a runstop/reset to get into the monitor and any game that blocked the reset button has no escape now! Many of the games restart codes are found with it's cheats. Have a go your self. All you have to do is make a note of the restart code for later use.
EDIT: I had a good blast on Galaxions for a couple of nights and voted it a more than generous 6/10. The animation of the enemy fire lets it down and can cause you to die without warning when they get lower as it moves in chars rather than pixels making it super fast. Also the star field lends it self to making everything a bit flicky on the eyes. I've yet to get past level 7. If the enemy ran at about 75% speed it would of been a lot more enjoyable. Overall a good effort for 1984 and a shame no Joysticks were available as the support is missing. One worth going back too now and then any way.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2012-08-26
09:01:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I'm afraid Hektik still needs its 16kb fix. I recall it was quite a bitch to crack back then...
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-08-26
17:43:21
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Hektik is done. The existing hack was a bit dumb, the original only used $0800-$3100 (roughly), so it easily fits into 16K even without compression. Well, now to the magic of Exomizer we have a "perfect" version.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-08-29
14:36:55
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Csabo did the same to Dixi A Megmentö, which now perfectly fits into a C16.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-10-30
14:29:52
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thanks for looking through the list of games and finding those! I fixed all 3.
Let me know if you guys find any more.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-10-31
05:10:07
| Re: There is no 16k only support
You don't get this service any where else when it comes to 8bit games!
Admittedly anything that runs on a Plus/4 or 64k that once run on a C16 is not officially broken as such because that was how it was backed up and working in the first place, but... Nice one again Csabo for restoring some peace and order once again back into the 264 galaxy.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-12-13
16:11:49
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Nice game Leapin Louie. Never finished it but clever stuff, very technical type game for 12k knowing our limited range of platform games from that era. Almost a Hidden Gem game because of it's big and bold graphics and of course stage one might of put some people off. Worth a second look indeed.
Cheers!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-01-23
14:31:55
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Another one that was overlooked (but is now done): Project Nova. Awesome C=16 game IMHO, like all the games from the author.
I wonder if there's any more? (C16 games that we haven't fixed, that is.)
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Posted By
Overdoc
on 2013-02-20
13:27:28
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Many, many thanks to all who fix these games for 16K !!
I was going to ask the same question like the original poster, because this topic have been a mystery to me as well for several years, but now I understand (I am a C64 user, so I never thaught about packers required to use 16K, only)
I am glad I can now compile a cassette with the best C16 games
Unfortunately, I first downloaded all the games from C16games.de http://c16.c64games.de/, and at least 70% of them do not work on a C16  (although they are C16 versions )
I think the site admin should check the games and swap the non-working ones with the fixed ones from here.
Anyway, THANKS again for all your work! (now I just need to find an easy way to compile a .tap image with those great C16 games....)
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-02-20
14:55:27
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Overdoc, thanks for your words
TAP from several prgs? You should try WAV-PRG then.
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Posted By
Overdoc
on 2013-02-20
17:32:48
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thanks Luca, I already read about this tool.
However, I am not sure if it can be used for C16 .tap files ? C64 .tap files have different length of pulses, so I am not sure if it would work 100% ?
My goal is to create two nice .tap files, each about the same size as a real 60min. casette's side (=30min).
Then I am going to write these two .tap files back to some real casettes, for myself and some friends's C16. (I have a C64s adapter to use ptap to write them back)
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-02-20
19:21:52
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Both WAV-PRG and Audiotap by Fabrizio Gennari consider the C16 too
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-02-21
06:52:31
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Sorry to say it like this but...
Would be better to buy a SD2IEC which emulates a 1541 Disk Drive using a USB card and loading all the games off of that for your machine. As you downloaded them they can be running on the real hardware with-in seconds.
There is no need to put anything on to tape any more. Copied games on tape suck but serve a purpose when put on to disk where loads more of the same thing can be held as they load even quicker than they would on tape. Fast forwarding to 120 on the tape counter to load Fire Ant is not my idea of fun... I'd rather get the original tape out or just load a copy off of floppy disc.
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Posted By
George
on 2013-02-21
07:31:20
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
I have to give MIK right. If you can afford one (its of course a matter of money) buy a SD-Card Drive. Tapes and Floppies are good for nostalgic and collecting reasons. But an SD-Drive is the best way to enjoy this old games, except you really want to "enjoy" the long loading times the old games.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2013-02-21
13:38:36
| Re: There is no 16k only support
^^^ Yeah I have the 1541u2. But so far there is no standalone mode support for the 264 series. I think the 1541u1 has it though but they're now discontinued.
For my C64 though it is an essential piece of kit which does far far more than load up programs which even work for tap files too (with the right adapter).
Even with any standalone support for the 264 series, I guess it will only be manual loading of PRG and D64 files only without all the extra perks anyway, so unless you have a C64 too then just better off sticking with the far far cheaper SD2IEC with CBM Filebrowser installed which is what I use for my expanded C16
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Posted By
Overdoc
on 2013-02-22
06:31:30
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Hi guys,
Ofcourse your are right that cassette is no more up to date, and I could use a diskdrive or SD2IEC etc. I have all of these and don't ever use a tape for loading anything myself.
However, I know a couple of guys who still have their old C16 and 1531 tapedeck from the old days.
My purpose is to supply these friends with 1 or 2 cassettes full of some of best known C16 games and applications, to bring their memories of the old days back to life
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-02-23
01:22:59
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Yeah I can understand and by the way... I still use my 1531's more than anything else as I have 100's & 100's of original tapes and even original spares that I use as backups of the same games I love. I'm crazy too and I'm the one who owns 3 original copies of Tom Thumb!
It's only the ones I have downloaded I have on disk. I guess I could download a turbo and put them back onto tape but for me it's quicker and easier to have them of disk.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-03-03
06:22:00
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Nice one Csabo, you deserve the C16/Plus4 medal of honor for your services to making all these classics run on the humble C16 - the way they were meant to be seen! Shame on the C64 scene I say in comparison...
Cheers!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-03-03
09:24:32
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thanks Another batch coming, Luca has the full list (and thanks to him for coming through our archive and checking which ones are still in need of fixing).
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2013-04-24
06:16:27
| Re: There is no 16k only support
You made a really great action here, guyz.
But they way - what files are adapted? Those PRGs with "Plus/4 World" description, I gather?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-04-24
07:43:40
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Good question!
We are able to refresh links from Plus/4 World (of course), and the FTP server Othersi.de (courtesy of Chicken, thnaks buddy!), this latter substitutes the ancient Rulez.org, which has been "freezed" years and years ago.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-04-29
15:51:46
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Varmit has been 16k fixed too Thanks to Csabo.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-08-16
12:57:05
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Wasn't much of a fix, but Othello (NZ) and Roulette C16 now run on C16 as well.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-09-12
16:07:21
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Gullwing Falcon is now 16ksized.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-12-07
02:03:48
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Master Chess has its proper 16K file now, thanks to Csabo.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-02-07
09:10:43
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Saboteur C16 got its proper file now.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-02-21
08:38:47
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Mount Vesuvius has been 16ksized.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-03-15
19:51:09
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Panic Penguin has a proper non-cracked 16K prg now.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-03-22
20:12:26
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Megabolts now has its own regular 16K PRG file.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2014-03-28
17:32:13
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Cyberdroids now has a proper 16K crack. The details of this game were wrong in our database, thanks to Rüdiger for pointing this out!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-05-09
09:02:50
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Room Ten gets a proper .prg file.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-05-26
09:58:46
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Csabo has fixed and updated the .prg file for Starburst.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-05-27
10:01:18
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Matrix has now been 16ksized.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2014-10-06
11:29:57
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Nice updates Luca. Great work as usual. I've just updated (and will continue to update) the SD2IEC Games Collection project whenever there's new fixes added, at least until they're more or less all finally done, and also depending on whether I'm still alive that is
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-10-06
14:29:23
| Re: There is no 16k only support
..and I'm following your updating step after step, never missed once Thanks for your work there!
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2014-10-06
15:28:31
| Re: There is no 16k only support
I probably won't always give update notifications on the sd2iec project everytime there's a 16k fix, maybe once or twice a year I'll give a quick update on the website's and via facebook. Glad the sd2iec project is appreciated although the real full credit goes to our member StarshipUK for it. I'm just keeping it updated for everyone, as well for my personal use too
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Posted By
MIK
on 2014-10-07
07:13:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
There might be a couple of old cracks in that collection that are not up to date.
Legionnaire from that SD2IEC collection was an old one and was missing the Csabo one that has the proper black border and loading screen.
Might be worth sharing any changes there and then in a post or something, if you update your own set for the odd better file.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2014-10-07
07:52:07
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Yeah, I already updated the Legionnaire crack when you highlighted my original hi-score evidence (cheers). I will upload any new changes to the collection everytime they happen, but will probably just make people aware of the changes every 6 months or so. Otherwise people may tire of continuously replacing the old set with the new set (which takes a while) maybe every month or so or possibly more frequent than that.
I'm wondering, should I keep the "Old" folder in them, they're taken from the old gamebase collection but is there any real point in keeping it? Personally for me, it takes up unnecessary space but this isn't originally my project.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-10-30
10:07:42
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Ferrox Lander has been renamed to the most coherent Ferrox, and the .prg file has been changed to fit into 16K. Presumably, the original game loads the graphics with a loader apart in $3000-$31D0 before loading the main BASIC code, which uses $28BF as variables memory (this means the BASIC code would load till that address...).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-11-21
18:49:57
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Now we have a flawlessly working copy of Shogun, thanks to Rüdiger
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Posted By
Luca
on 2014-12-13
12:50:17
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Q-Bert has been fixed (a little bug in the playfield's graphics) and 16ksized too.
OT: in the meantime, Rüdiger has found a copy of Jaw-Breaker :)
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-03-03
15:19:41
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Xzap was a bad dump of the original game on tape, now a fixed one.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-17
10:14:59
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Don't forget, some games that require SYS or G codes are as pure as the original and why they are like it. In fact if you want to do one better some would only exist as .D64 files, but yeah it's cool to have them RUN-able with out the need to remember or messing about.
At least the C16/Plus4 scene makes the effort to better things and make things easier overall, unlike some other computers out there.
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Posted By
corpsicle
on 2015-04-17
16:38:13
| Re: There is no 16k only support
This thread almost makes me want to take out the c16 aswell ...
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-04-20
14:16:17
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Fixed PRG file for Droid One (no SYS needed).
Edit: fixed PRG file for Ping Pong (no SYS needed).
Edit #2: Same fix applied to the following: Crillion, Ghost Town (English and German versions), Tennis, World Cup.
Edit #3: Proper C16 compatible cracks added for Csodálatos Simon, Guzzler and Classic Adventure.
Edit #4: Clean crack for UXB, and SYS-less versons for Viduzzles, Survivors and Space Fiends.
Edit #5: C16 PRG files for: Footballer Of The Year, Arrow Of Death, Perseus & Andromeda, The Sorcerer Of Claymorgue Castle, and new PRGs for Fury and Invaders.
Edit #6: Daley Thompson's Star Events, Asteroid Belt done.
Edit #7: Done with Twin Kingdom Valley (C16 version) and Indoor Soccer (Plus/4 version). Both were pretty hard work!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-06-04
12:36:20
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Replaced US Drag Racing PRGs.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-08-31
10:09:55
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Properly renamed the Deli's trainer for Scooby Doo and added a valid .PRG from the original game.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-09-02
09:48:01
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Replace Jabba Otthona PRG file, now it regularly works on C16 as expected.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-10-03
12:53:49
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger has sent in a cleaner version of Super Breakout. Anyway, both the previous one and the new one show an evident bug on level 8 (you can check it by waiting for the levels'show), we shall check if that bug is a double mistake or an original fault in the code list.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-10-11
19:18:46
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Added a fixed PRG for Fire Ant (unbelievably, but after all this time we still had some C16 games that didn't work on a C16...), and also added a PRG version for Lone Survivor. True but completely useless off-topic fact: this was the game that caused me to start learning English
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Posted By
siz
on 2015-10-12
03:37:17
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Do we have a list of games that still need to be fixed for 16k memory?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-10-12
11:03:20
| Re: There is no 16k only support
We had a couple in this thread, but they were taken care of. If we did, one of us would go through it and just fix them all
Basically at this point it's all laborious manual work to check each game, and a big thanks goes out to Rüdiger for doing it.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2016-12-09
09:10:48
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger has found the errata corrige article which allows Break Out to be now 100%, file changed eventually.
EDIT: Back To Nature memory size fixed.
EDIT2: Ürvirág PRG file is a bad crack, so it has been renamed and a working crack has been added too.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2017-02-06
11:10:57
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger fixed Stellar Wars and Torpedo Alley, but PRGs were bigger than they should have been.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2017-09-25
02:37:02
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Alien Attack PRG changed to match the original Alternative start address, looking forward to the forthcoming changes and fixes about the Solar Software releases.
EDIT: the previous PRG file has been renamed and assigned to be the Triple Decker 5 version, the TAP has been named "alien_attack_alien.tap" and re-zipped, due it's the first Novaload release named simply "Alien"; the older PRG that runs with SYS8446 is from the original no turbo version and a new PRG has been uploaded from it, now it includes the intro text.
More Solar Software titles will undergo heavy changes in the next days.
EDIT2: Suicide Run and Quick Draw PRGs changed too.
EDIT3: Knock Out, Mission Mars and Cruncher PRGs changed too.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2017-10-22
11:22:19
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger noticed a small bug ($FF28 issue) in the PRG file for Skyhawk we had, so I created a new clean crack for it.
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Posted By
Rüdiger
on 2018-01-12
18:13:59
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Grand Master is now fixed RUNable and packed at the Kingsoft-Version, and a clean crack from the Audiogenic release.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2018-12-08
10:12:28
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Raider prg file changed, with a coherently saved and exomized file.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2018-12-09
16:00:12
| Re: There is no 16k only support
A clean version of Boogie-Woogie Spiders is up, appears to run on a C16.
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Posted By
Rüdiger
on 2018-12-13
09:26:22
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The new version of Boogie-Woogie Spiders was cleaned by me, but needs 32 KB RAM ...
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2018-12-13
13:11:51
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Not really Due to where it's located in the memory, it runs fine on a C16. Try it!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2018-12-17
09:03:32
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The original Arthur Noid has been saved from a C16, as anyone can see checking the last 17 bytes of the program. So, the .prg file has been changed in order to replicate it. It's a chance to add a 16K fixed version of the derivate Arthur Noid 98.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-01-07
17:42:03
| Re: There is no 16k only support
A limited playable demo of Rodman has been added.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-04-04
11:02:11
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The old PRG file of Marble Madness was a broken version which breaks passing to the next levels, now we have a fully working file for it.
EDIT: also changed World War I, now with no chars' bug.
EDIT2: fixed and changed Space 1999's PRG file.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-04-07
14:36:46
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed both English and German versions of Ghost Town prgs, in order to match the original filesize, and to rebuild the protection included in the original game.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-04-09
10:21:30
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed Strip Poker prg file, added a fixed German version prg too.
EDIT: the previous German version has been deleted, the fixed version IS now the only German version.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-04-29
09:24:03
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The Solve Master original C16 cut is in, instead of the Mombasa Joe's bad save.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-05-26
12:05:53
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The .prg file of GWNN has been changed. Our previous one was a bad cut exceeding the C16 memory, and with a SYS Basic line. This last one has been "reactivated" from the original game, because in the Mastertronic release it has been somewhat deleted by removing the instruction code.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2019-05-26
12:42:35
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thank you for the updates.
It was one of my favouries back in the time, the closest thing to Uridium we could have on 16K.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-05-26
13:03:11
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Yes MMS I loved it too, and when the author has revelaed "Challenger" to all of us I was so sad: why did Mastertronic cut the game so badly, in order to add an useless second charset destroying the original working sprites? Bah... :/
You know that we have three Uridium-like games, and I love all of them: Gwnn is visually and aurally fantastic, but lacks in gameplay sometimes, Liberator is one of my favourite C16 games ever, although the horrible management of sprites and collisions, Starforce Nova could have been a rougher bui most suitable approach but that terrible shoot-the-right-letters sequence is a big downer in the gameplay.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2019-05-26
16:20:32
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thank you!
Starforce Nova I knew (did not impress me so much), but Liberator was new to me.
PS Some of the releases seems done in hurry without real quality control, the best example is Ghost'n'Goblins mixed up hires/multicolor mode main sprite. I suppose some other games could also look better.
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2019-05-26
16:51:17
 | Re: There is no 16k only support
Liberator is the best imho
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-06-01
16:00:18
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Ah wait, I forgot to include Battle Star into the Uridium-ish games list.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2019-06-01
16:18:05
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Thanks for listing, completely unkown to me. At least it has a music (sounds like Bach to me).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-07-25
04:18:33
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Splitz program file changed, to match the faithful used memory.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-07-31
02:41:29
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Our PRG of Tomb Of Tarrabash had a noticeable graphic bug in the title screen, hence we changed .prg file and titlescreen picture.
Plus, we discovered a bug in the original game which prevents from getting back to the titlescreen after the ending. Indeed, the PRG file has been proposed just as the original, with no fix.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-08-11
20:15:07
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Trailblazer prg fixed to start at $1001, and exomized too.
Oh, and title logo too.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-08-25
11:28:11
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed Mr. Puniverse .PRG and added the older version too: both load in the range up to $3FFE instead of the wrong $3FFF where they'd been saved. Once exomized, it has also been restored the initial green/blue background color forced by the usage of Novaload for both game's versions on tape.
Rüdiger has discovered that the older version's ending stucks in an endless loop missing to reach the final 'game over' text, and added a .FRE snapshot file as final for that one.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-09-06
04:47:04
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed Phantom +6D [PAL/NTSC], just due an imperceptible screen colour mismatch in the intro's DYCP.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-09-19
06:10:31
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed Star Commander to match the correct filename and restore the original code protection.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-10-28
14:35:34
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed the .prg file of Rig Attack, now with the correct cut at $3F00.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-11-27
13:47:14
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed the .prg file for Zap-em, the previous one was a terrible crack with bad character set.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-11-30
02:32:40
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Once alerted by Rüdiger, changed the .prg file for Prospector Pete, the previous one was an edited file with Basic command line and some crap in the memory which was different to the one originally left, Novaload stuff included too.
Changed the .prg file for Manic Miner, the previous one was a bad cut with some edited bytes in order to set the border color to black, whereas in both the two tape versions of the game it gets set by the initial instructions in Basic, now added too.
Changed the .prg file for Las Vegas, the previous one was a hack signed:"EMU FRIENDLY VERSION BY " (is it you Gaia? is it you ATI?), the new .prg restores it in the original shape and it's saved $0FC0-$4000 (yes, byte $4000 included). The hacked version has been preserved anyway.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2019-12-02
08:00:59
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger changed both C16 and Plus/4 .preg files of Jet Set Willy, now much more compliant with their respective original couterparts, and a separate file for the Plus/4 disk version (slightly different) has been added too. he also changed .prg filre for Ian Botham's Test Match.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-02-24
10:34:13
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Raketenstart .prg has been changed due to a little graphic mistake in the typed listing.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-10-23
07:07:01
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Dedalus 3D .prg changed as it was just a bad cut uselessly packed.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-01-15
12:23:41
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Added a .prg file for Death Or Glory.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-06-14
13:39:08
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed both .D64 and .PRG files in Trailblazer, the former due to an incorrect size of the main program, the latter because the intro logo program in BASIC unpacks the graphics, changing the color set into the stack, painting in black the upper text.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-06-19
06:09:21
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Changed the prg file in Voidrunner: although it has been thought to be run via BASIC string, the official release has been fixed to clear some memory around $03xx in order to set up a table before. As a result, the previous prg was loosing one sfx in the beginning.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-07-29
06:33:07
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger has updated all the four .prg files of Snooker & Pool, so now they're respectfully cut and the clean file shows the author's sign: he's Branko Spoljaric, who also created Saboteur!.
New .prg file for Varmit too, which is now compliant to the original version, and exomized for your pleasure.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-08-20
16:23:59
| Re: There is no 16k only support
A real classic fixed by Rüdiger and Luca: Blitz 16 has now the essential PRG just as the TAP runs it, with graphics' buildup in the first part and the game's code in the latter one.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-08-27
10:30:50
| Re: There is no 16k only support
File change for the Space Sweep's PRG: there were two versions around, one was a bad cut, one doesn't work on C16 due the packer. Anyway, resolved.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-09-17
15:49:10
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger places in a better cut version of 3D Glooper.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-10-19
10:27:11
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger fixes other three classics: Oblido receives a clean cut, Dizasterblaster follows and it finally gets renamed to the right title both on P4W and Othersi, Tutti Frutti is now clean and supports the intro titles too preserving the mechanism which runs the game thru the same (retouched ad hoc) Basic program.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-10-28
16:24:46
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Olympic Skier is now in its best shape ever, including the original tape's BASIC list, the PETSCII title and the correct cut of the game.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-11-14
17:04:34
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Big update by Rüdiger with help by me: a dozen PRGs with a better cut or simply exomized, plus one with the included instructions file and one with its intro screen: Bandits At Zero, Battle, Big Mac, Gunlaw, On Cue both Pool and Snooker, Power Ball, Return Of Rockman, Rockman, Spectipede, Squirm, Starforce Nova, Video Meanies.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2021-12-09
11:10:42
| Re: There is no 16k only support
11 new C16 classic requiring a fix: Into The Deep now is well cut and includes the intro picture as onefiler, plus good cut and exomizing of Booty, Cops N' Robbers, Fury, Harvey Headbanger, Ninja Master, Shark Attack, Spiky Harold, Torpedo Alley, Video Classics, Zolyx.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2022-01-01
14:09:24
| Re: There is no 16k only support
New prg file for Who Dares Wins II, clean and compliant.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2022-03-16
14:58:48
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Wide reworking around World Cup: under the interest of Rüdiger, MIK has contributed with a dump of the original by Artic, so the copy that we had was the rerelease of the game. Correctly cut PRG files have been added consequently, and, as a bonus, the horrible twin game World Cup Carnival has deserved a onefile C16 version as PRG and TAP (with Novaload) files.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2022-04-24
19:01:12
| Re: There is no 16k only support
It's again Rüdiger taking care of the reliability of the classic C16 games as PRG file, and leaving to me the little code to do about. This time:
- 5 games of the Mysterious Adventures series have been PRG-normalized: The Time Machine, Golden Baton, Escape From Pulsar 7, Feasibility Experiment, Waxworks;
- the correct separated version of Missile and Guess, both present in the same compilation, has been fixed;
- Invaders (Livewire) has now a much more faithful PRG file, including the loading screen where you can wait till the end of the countdown or press any key to enter the game, and thank to Exomizer the overall code has no longer those weird addons in order to force a BASIC line; in the loading screen, exact sfx loops and color rotation originally depend from the tape loading itself, so there's no need to clone both 100% faithfully. This version restores an original mistake about the cursor, which appears to be present on the screen (and not set outside) from the TAP file.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2022-09-27
11:23:37
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Rüdiger updates the Jet Set Willy PRG file restoring the original file with the BASIC line.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2022-12-03
06:31:06
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Added a .prg file, with text filled loading screen, for Classic Bridge 4.0.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-03-17
15:16:50
| Re: There is no 16k only support
European Soccer Finals is basically a mod of the ominous, ubiquitous, World Cup in a new guise, a sort of Frankenstein's monster glueing together various Kingsoft's assets into that walking corpse, where wires blood and limb's shreds are packed in one big barely working game. In these days, we discovered that some major flaws pushed its earlier version to result as unplayable on C16!
Anyway, we had some glitchy 64kB cracks and hacks of it, and we ever had a .prg file which needed to be run with a SYS, and that, due to the structure of the game itself, couldn't feature all the options, being forced in two teams only, busy in a 2 players only competition. Btw: it was a mess of a hack, badly cut too.
We changed it with two version, in the intent to keep'em basically onefiled, on first of any other needing.
The 32k hack works on any non-C16 264 machine and keep intro, selection and game, so the game is complete. It also features the little flaws in the intro of the latter version, the one from where it has been taken.
A C16 onefiler has been added too, still keeping together both the parts, but you can choose to depack only one of those at a time, and that means that the intro+choose part is basically kept as a demo. Anyway, all the options are preserved in an easy-going initial menu, which can be used with both joysticks, cursor keys and shortcut keys (marked as inverted letters) too. The only compromise to make it live on your machine is to LOAD THE GAME WHILE THE CURSOR HAS BEEN MOVED IN THE MARKED BOTTOM PART OF THE SCREEN.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2023-03-17
17:10:25
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Good Work! I had a feeling it was World Cup in disguise. Looks like they made an effort to remove the pointy nose from the players, maybe that broke the game.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-06-14
05:59:34
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Chipy's prg has been changed and now unpacks on C16 too.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-10-14
11:36:25
| Re: There is no 16k only support
A new clean .prg file for Torpedo Run.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-11-08
16:32:08
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Starter Chess has the cleanest fix possible now, PRG file changed.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-11-11
07:08:17
| Re: There is no 16k only support
A Főnévi Igenév, one educational program from the prolific strand created by Zsuzsa Jókútiné Döbrőssy, always looked like the black sheep of the breed. No, this definition hasn't meant to be a mere figure of speech: the .PRG hack we'd found was actually black in the background, whereas all the other releases like the one under examination have both background and border as samely coloured.
It turned out that the hack has been badly packed up, and didn't fit into the C16 memory due to some very bad chioices, which is a bad bad point for a 16kB release. Actually, this particular sub-strand of the Jokosoft/DELTASoft programs boasts some brainy routines, in order to handle both ML and BASIC, and the most folkloristic one is the usage of a hidden 64 bytes line starting from $0FC0 in the bottom of the screen memory, containing both ML routines and jump tables.
Probably, the Commodore 16 can host this slice of code in several other comfortable areas, but if one has no knowledge of which locations could be touched by the BASIC while it's working, then the screen memory is a safe one, forcing your own program to not writing there. Oh well, a little fix only to chitchat a couple of minutes, file changed, bye.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-11-17
04:49:00
| Re: There is no 16k only support
As Csabo has pointed out, Transector's releases were in a tornado of misinformation. Now everything's ok, we changed the D64 hack and both versions' PRG files. Some TAPs have been added too, and now let the search for the mysterious lost Zip's crack gets a start!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-12-06
07:50:52
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Added a straight executable file to play Spore with my old edited levels, and separated it from the data only file.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2023-12-10
14:59:36
| Re: There is no 16k only support
This one isn't strictly 16K, but I guess it's worth mentioning in this thread. Rüdiger spotted that all existing versions of Jack Attack were buggy. After creating a good clean copy, Luca and I looked at all the existing cracks. It was an interesting rabbit hole to fall into:
There are basically (at least) two sets of cracks of this game. The most common one (24K in size) is what's uploaded to most sites. It has a lot of extra garbage in memory (the words STRIP POKER can be found ), and it has an odd bug where the blocks pushed onto water don't fall, but rather float. There's a smaller crack, which was nearly perfect, but it has the $FF28 bug (so 2 bytes of the game code overwritten), and you can't enter the high score list. We've seen many variations of these two cracks across our game archives, but they are all just the same two cracks with different packers. Since neither can be tied to a particular scener, we figured it's not worth keeping them and trying to label them all; especially since they are broken.
Anyway, enjoy the new PRG file
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-12-23
18:48:26
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Championship Wrestling +GD fills the gap of a missing crack of the game that actually runs on a C16.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2023-12-25
13:02:35
| Re: There is no 16k only support
The onefiler of Fight In The Desert is a global mess with no significance, so we replaced it with a clean exomized one, considering that the original one has a bootloader on a D64.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2024-01-08
07:56:08
| Re: There is no 16k only support
Karate +D fills the other gap of a missing crack, adds one trainer and allows to play the game on NTSC.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2024-01-17
07:08:04
| Re: There is no 16k only support
And Tomcat +GD is the third on a series, a C16 working crack for Tomcat.
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