Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-02-27
13:12:07
|  Ghosts 'N Goblins
Hello fellow Plus/4 enthusiasts.
I've been a regular visitor to the site for many years and love looking at the re-coded C64 and Spectrum ports that find their way onto the Plus/4. There is one game I'm particularly keen to see ported to the system properly - Elite's Ghosts 'N Goblins, as the original (and only, as far as I'm aware) version in existence is the C16 version.
I fully appreciate the limits of the C16 and understand that this is possibly the best we can expect. But having seen the amazing ports of Head Over Heals, Adventures In Time as well as a host of others on the Plus/4 - I wonder if there is any way to make good use of the extra RAM and turn out something that vaguely resembles the C64 or Spectrum versions.
Loading up the C16 version all those years ago has left me emotionally scarred and I eventually returned it to the shop and exchanged it for Yie Ar Kung Fu which wasn't a great deal better!
Anyway, whatever the responses (if any!) I will remain a loyal visitor to the site and hope someone hears my pleas!
Kind regards,
Joe
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-02-27
15:25:26
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Hi there,
The answer to your question is a simple "yes". Using the extra RAM, and just putting more effort into it in general could easily mean a much better looking and more playable game.
I think we all agree that the C16 version is not that great. It could have been worse though (I'm thinking Green Beret). But all those other examples you mentioned prove that it's possible to create better games.
As to whether anyone would ever get into a project like this... Who knows  But I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2015-02-27
16:32:49
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
I think ZX Spectrum version should be more a reference to us (due to missing sprites) than the c64 version.
Certainly with much more colors.
Color clash is almost evident, though with good programming you can prevent some (like in Magicians curse - till today I do not really understand how this programmer could do it so well).
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-02-27
17:11:23
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Many thanks for the comments guys. I agree that sprites and clash would be potentially problematic. I've just watched a Magicians Curse video on YouTube (and see your comment on there MMS ), and it's been done rather nicely.
Music would be another hurdle of course. The background music on the C64 really added to the atmosphere and the TED is obviously not as capable.
As much as I'd love to see a faithful C64 port I agree that the Spectrum would be the logical start. That said, I'm not a coder myself but felt that the community would love to see this classic handled with some finesse
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-02-28
01:39:46
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
I'd like to see C64 Ikari Warriors on Plus/4 as the original C16 version lacks any sort of testing and challenging game play if your name is Rambo or MIK, no replay value either once completed. Obviously the C64 version is king of all the home versions and I would not be without. Like wise the Spectrum version would be worthy if it's more suitable.
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-02-28
09:08:27
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Hi Spektro, thanks for this. I've just followed your link - that's a great tune, and it's true to the original arcade version too! I have to agree with you that this would form a more sensible basis for a Plus/4 version than the C64 SID which would be a bit tough.
Nicely done
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-02-28
23:54:31
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
I always say that if an unexpanded C16 version or remake is feasible then that should also be explored. We've had two versions before, for both 16k & 64k. i.e. Saboteur, Bridgehead, Jet Set Willy, Ace.
I think in this case, too much had to be sacrificed to make it fully feasible within the C16's limits. It was an overly ambitious project back in the day to start with, with deadlines to meet.
But on the other hand, the original 16k conversion could have still been better than what we finally got, as it all feels very rushed just to get it on the shelves quickly. Bug fixes, better collision detection, more levels, two hit deaths instead of one, extra weapons even if just the fireball. Tighter coding too to get more in to fit. Probably will still never be room for any music though, which was what gave the C64 version and the original a lot of atmosphere. Multiload would be no problem today using the SD2iec device. Obviously for a really decent much closer version then we'd have to look at 64k for this particular one.
I'm just much more fascinated with what the standard Commodore 16 can achieve rather than the Plus/4. So I hope that Richard Ikin doesn't dilly dally too long with his 16k Commando remake, plus of course 1942 and a possible remake of Airwolf
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-03-01
04:06:32
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Hi Baz. Thanks for your reply. So true, you only need to look at Uwol to see what can be squeezed into 16k!
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Posted By
MMS
on 2015-03-01
12:44:36
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
the magical sound of square waves
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2015-03-01
13:34:12
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
a little something for ya :D
..i made a conversion just for fun.
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-03-01
16:54:58
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
That is superb!! C64 loading screen on Plus/4  Love it - thanks!!!
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-03-02
04:11:33
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Spektro, is it wrong that I've listened to your tune about 20 times already this morning?!
Just out of interest, how much memory will the tune run in? Is there any potential to have it in-game? I'm wondering about the potential for this music and Chronos's image to be used in a conversion - if this were to go any further of course 
I have to say that if the dream ends here you guys have really given me a treat. Thanks so much.
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-03-02
04:13:33
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
I love your rendition of the music by the way - very authentic!
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Posted By
Spektro
on 2015-03-02
13:39:56
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Thanks itjoe! The last time I made music was in the late 90's. A long time ago
I made the tune with MilkyTracker using a Plus4 pulse waveform sound sample. I used 6 audio channels, but I think 4 channels would have been enough to reach the same result. On a Plus4 you'd need to command two TEDs at the same time to have 4 channels.
I squeezed the beginning into 2 audio channels to hear what it would sound like with a single TED: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/janpera/plus4/Ghosts_n_Goblins_2ch.ogg
Not as nice 
It may be a better idea to try to create something simpler and shorter. A gloomy in-game tune perhaps or short game start and end jingles.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2015-03-02
14:13:43
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Wow, Spektro, that's some awesome tune, Dude! You deserve a native trackmo on your own right
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-03-02
17:44:33
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Wow #2 from me. Both the 6 channel and 2 channel versions sound pretty good.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2015-03-03
20:25:20
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
I also like them both. The 2channel version has some nice effects inside, somehow reminds me the Exorcist, one of my fav. tune from ”pure TED” period.
Chronos maestro! I checked the picture in details, not a "bad pixel" anywhere on the screen, that is really nice knowing the PLUS/4 limitation on free color (2 VS 3 of C64.) well done!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-03-03
10:17:17
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Love the 2 channel version, a little fast maybe but very cool.
Hey Gaia, I played the 2 channel one first and as soon as I did it reminded me of you and one game in particular... or rather the style of it any way. That game being Hustler. 
Edit: On the subject of Ghosts'n Goblins, a subject I could talk too much on lol... One of the first original GameBoy games was a title called Gargoyle's Quest. In short it's a game based on the flying bad guy which you meet just after the grave yard in the original G'nG. Any way, the game has a lot of neat music and this random video shows some of it off nicely just how it would sound if it was on TED, might come in useful for style idea's... At the 58 second mark the jumping platform side of the game starts, listen to that tune, awesome! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw43qTd1xi4
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-03-03
12:58:14
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Hi Spektro, sorry for the delay in responding - work keeps distracting me from my personal life - I hate that!
I love the first tune, but the second trimmed down version has a certain appeal too. Additionally, it would make room for some spot effects in-game which might be nice. Funnily enough though, when I listened to your original version (the first few times ) I felt that I would be willing to sacrifice sound effects to have that playing instead.
One for the community I suppose as it would be different for everyone.
MIK, thanks also for your comments. I really liked the premise for Gargoyles Quest, I must say that it looks really tough though!! The music is cool and sounds very much in keeping with the original. Could work nicely on the Plus/4.
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-03-03
13:07:15
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
On the subject of graphics, could something more monochrome work? Something along the lines of Uwol on the Plus/4 or Cobra on the ZX Spectrum perhaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e57bGfHEHy4
It could be a way to overcome the clash problem. Over to you guys for your thoughts and suggestions though...
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Posted By
Patrick
on 2015-06-28
06:20:22
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
nice picture!!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-28
17:02:48
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
That is f**king AWESOME!!!!
As we have seen before with a digitized Ferrari F1 car, a shame our 264 red is a little dark but who cares when it's been used to good effect like this. It looks more like blood red which if I'm honest is nice, and it's a better red than the Amiga version, (in-game title screen) uses!!
You should not of sad what the image contained, it would of been even more epic! 11/10
BTW:
It wouldn't take much to ultimately have the best version of Ghosts'n Goblins of all 8bit home computers on Plus/4 because of one simple fact. The home versions that I have checked, including the Amiga version "do not" allow Arthur to fire backwards when jumping forwards. A massive over sight of the original game mechanics, even on the Amiga with that version looking and playing as well as it does...
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Posted By
George
on 2015-06-28
16:10:18
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Nice picture Spektro!
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-28
18:47:57
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Reading thru this thread I have to say I agree with Baz's thoughts on this from his february post. I would love to see if someone could do a good multi load on the basic C16 as seeing programmers work wonders on the system fascinates me. For all the anti Ghosts n Goblins comments I have read, the masochist in me still wants a copy of it (if I can get it cheap enough!!!) I guess that makes me an oddball!
I reckon the Plus Four could handle a Spectrummy type conversion but I envisage it to be a bit more colourful. One day a genius out there may make that happen!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-29
07:06:49
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
As you may of noticed it doesn't show up that often, however the Encore version normally goes for around the same price as the C64 version, about £5.
You are not alone any way because in my collection it gets treated like a holy grail as if it's a copy of Tom Thumb just because of what it is and what it represents as a game to me across many platforms from C64 to the PSone version ect... This is regardless of the lack of game play quality it offers on C16. Both my clamshell copies of Ghosts'N Goblins and Ikari Warriors on C16 are in protective condoms, I mean plastic bags just to keep them in as nice condition as possible. The Encore versions being more or less backup's to the originals...
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Posted By
KiCHY
on 2015-06-29
10:01:04
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
MIK, I hope those plastic bags are antistatic ones
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Posted By
Sidney
on 2015-06-29
13:18:13
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
I must say that as yet-- since I have had my C16 I have not seen a copy of it on ebay or anywhere for that matter but I do still want to have a copy of it!! The reason being that with certain games that I love I like to compare the versions across my many different formats. Games like OutRun, Storm, Booty, Bombjack, Wonderboy and G&G have all been subject to this collection within a collection fetish that I have!!
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Posted By
MMS
on 2015-06-29
19:45:47
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Spectro, nice gfx!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-30
07:08:52
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
@ KiCHY,
Unknown. Due to the odd shape they are in cheap resealable sandwich bags.
I wanted to see the artwork without taking them out.
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Posted By
KiCHY
on 2015-06-30
10:22:53
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
@MIK
I suggest replacing these regular bags with antistatic bags (too bad the aren't transparent enough). The regular bags can produce static electricity which harms the magnetic patterns of tape and they become unreadable.
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2015-07-01
15:44:34
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Ghosts'n Goblins C16 is simply terrible. Released with buggy colors, just a level and a half.. lol. The author was rushed, or what?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-07-01
18:09:40
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
More a work in progress demo than an actual game on C16 for sure... What there is also runs too fast.
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Posted By
RKSoft
on 2015-07-16
05:46:17
 | Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Why not remake this great game for our lovely computer?
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Posted By
itjoe
on 2015-08-10
10:14:46
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
Love the pic Spektro!
I was just reading this month's Retro Gamer, and there's a piece about the game Bruce Lee, which I'd also like to see on the Plus/4. It made me think that we should have a "plus4world games we'd love to be converted to C16/Plus4" list. Just for fun, as a separate post perhaps?
Mine would be:
1. Ghosts 'N Goblins (obviously!!)
2. Space Harrier
3. Bruce Lee
4. Operation Wolf
5. Power Drift
In the meantime you have my blessing for the G'nG conversion to continue
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2015-08-10
19:33:51
| Re: Ghosts 'N Goblins
We're planned earlier an Operation Wolf conversion but it left abandon. I'm also a big fan of this game, so i forced Csio to make the engine. The Idea was to rip all the graphics from the ZX Spectrum version with a new plusi engine.. but finally it ended shamefully without a single byte of code..
I also like Ghosts'n Goblins and i disassembled the c16 version but finally it was abandoned too..
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