| Posted By
Ati
on 2012-09-26
08:33:26
|  crackers demo 5
Hi boys,
Crackers demo 4 made in 2005... who and when make Crackers demo 5?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-09-26
08:39:48
 | Re: crackers demo 5
Wow, that's incredible: I wrote exactly the same thing to bubis via email some hours ago! :o
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Posted By
Csio
on 2012-09-26
08:59:16
| Re: crackers demo 5
WE have to do it!
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2012-09-26
12:15:59
 | Re: crackers demo 5
it will be awesome but i suggest please do a trackmo not a "press space to continue" stuff..
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-09-26
19:23:33
| Re: crackers demo 5
Chronos, yes, that's the idea I had in mind: first, the tune(s), then a precise time limit per contributed part, which has to finish and being screenplayed following several "exit" times. The rest will be done bysetting the right idle times after a tracloading to set the right beginning for the forthcoming next part 
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Posted By
bubis
on 2012-09-27
08:21:49
| Re: crackers demo 5
I have more than enough unreleased effects to do a proper trackmo, and I really want to do that (finally), but I might contribute to this prod too (will see).
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2012-09-27
07:34:12
| Re: crackers demo 5
Just a quick thought: The way 8SOB managed time was a great thing in my eyes. Every contributor had some amount of time to work with, the demo ran part by part.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-10-04
04:56:56
| Re: crackers demo 5
Oh well, in the past I (co-)managed almost all the last years'bigger ventures of this kind. Nonetheless, in some circumstances, it has been emphasized that sometimes I've been "too much present", both as organizer and as active presence on this site (sometimes stressing a decent minimum of certain guidelines which would help, for example).
That's the reason why I did not launch this rocket by myself, maybe it's time to act as one of the hosted participants and leave all to other ppl, which will surely be brave passionate and skilled.
READ CAREFULLY: if you've felt a scent of even little polemics or drama, please read it again (and smile more )
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Posted By
nukem
on 2012-10-07
13:41:46
| Re: crackers demo 5
swag ^^
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2012-10-23
13:31:11
 | Re: crackers demo 5
Would be really nice to see/hear something new.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-10-23
13:45:36
| Re: crackers demo 5
Heh YERZMYEY I'm with you, would be really nice... I chitchatted in PM about this, but in the same time I've had one eye to this thread to see what could happen...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-06
05:30:33
| Re: crackers demo 5
Just to get a picture about that.
Who of you might contribute to a hypotetic CD5 with:
- a COMPLETE part which shows everything in, let's say, 30 seconds, preserving DECENT QUALITY STANDARS (beg your pardon if it sounds harsh this way);
- a COMPLETE loading part/effect link-it-yourself, perfectly matching some very strict needings the common trackloader would impose;
- a TOTAL submissiveness to: playing time, contribution completeness by yourself, TED sound choice, memory needings and so on, in order to let the organizer to organize and not drawing logos/pics or give extensive hints or compose tunes or link your own part or solve your part's troubles?
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Posted By
bubis
on 2012-11-06
08:51:26
| Re: crackers demo 5
To be perfectly honest, I would like to focus on creating my my first trackmo, so I will keep my shooting power for that one, but there is a slight chance that there will be a few parts what I don't want to use in that trackmo and in that case I can participate. It also depends on what is the deadline and how I am progressing with my stuff ... So, I will see...
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Posted By
Csio
on 2012-11-06
09:59:59
| Re: crackers demo 5
How can you imagine the style? Like a traditional crackers demo with different parts, different styles, maybe with "press-space" parts and full of scrolls or put your effect to the core of linkers-and-designers who makes it complete all and we proud it at Evoke. Everybody can makes something in this project, like 'Hey, Krona! We need an 1x1 scroll in the 2nd loaderpart. Please write one, and slap us a logo too."
What do ya think?
Anyway, i am in a little bit....
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-06
10:14:08
| Re: crackers demo 5
You are a little bit...what? 
Some of us had a little brainstorming session to put ideas altogether, and if something will get real, it will. At the moment we still are in the hypotesis time...
At the descrbed situation, the idea is: trackmo, quality selected parts, anyone has to be self-sufficient (don't care if you ask to your links to do things for you, the eventual organizers must simply know that you said "yes my stuff matches the requests"), limitations in play time (to make it fast enough, did you ever watch the whole CD4 and counted how much time it takes?), anybody have to do both loading effect/part (running into trackloader limitations) and his main one in order to allow his own's perfect timing.
bubis: if you would have success in finishing your own trackmo and join an eventual CD5 too with something you didn't use, I would be double happy :)
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-10
03:13:28
| Re: crackers demo 5
Recapitulating: Luca, Ingo, maybe bubis, Ati, Csio, maybe Csabo would stress their lifetimes and join in a coopdemo with the rules I touched.
We are few of us. We still might do that, unregarding the fact we are few than expected.
A feedback? Some help?
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2012-11-10
16:21:22
 | Re: crackers demo 5
I have two parts 95 % ready but with their own music/timing so I would not like to dissolve that now in the soup... How can you write a common trackmo, how can you time your effects to the common music btw??
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-10
17:50:52
| Re: crackers demo 5
Lavina: yes, I would do the same in a situation like yours. Regarding the timing in a cooperation demo: as I've written before, the idea is that, having your own loader effect into a general trackloader spreaded by the organizers, would help you in linking the way you want your own part, with your own music timing if needed.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2012-11-13
19:22:53
| Re: crackers demo 5
I just wanted to say that i generally love the idea of another scene-reviving coop and i would create a demopart for it in any case. And it would be some kind of an ultimate thing to have a trackmo-like coop.
I also have my doubts about this. From my experience i would say the linking-part of the work costs most of the time. Since we all have a real life (have we?) this could only work with very strict rules, discipline, organization, etc. for those involved. I don't say its impossible, i just fear it will be a damn hard job to do and probably no fun at times.
I also understand not everybody likes this trackmo-idea. Lavina found just the right words: Having your own work "dissolve in the soup" is something some of us don't want to happen. Thats personal flavour and in any case a valid argumentation.
My feelings about the current discussion are two-edged: On one side maybe its not the right time for a sophisticated and complex thing like a coop *trackmo*. On the other hand it's maybe just misleading to have a technical discussion at this stage - "technical" in a sense that we're talking about a CD5, and we're talking about a trackmo.
I could rant about all this even further, but i'm running out of time. What i really wanted to say is:
It doesn't really matter to me if it would be a "CD5" or "8SOB, part two" or "limiTED 3" or whatever. It also wouldn't matter to me if this is a Trackmo, an Atari-ST-1992-Megademo-Like-Partselector or just a disk with a couple of .PRG-Files. Another Crackers-Demo as well as any other coop/group-effort would mean to me: An occasion to go to Hungary, preferably to Ajka. To see you all in person, have nice chats and a couple of beers. To see new +4-demos on the bigscreen. And knowing that we pumped some life into our little scene.
So maybe we didn't ask the right questions. Maybe we shouldn't ask "Shall we do the next CD5?", instead we should better ask "What do we do for next years Arok/Busodore/Scenecon?" (The answer to the last question could probably be: CD5 )
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-14
02:39:52
| Re: crackers demo 5
I chitchatted with Ingo a few times about the argument. Ati has thrown a pebble into the swamp, and that has formed some waves of "do we organize and manage this again and how".
I'm totally on the Ingo's side, my opinion matches with his one. In order to avoid hogging all the space, I've waited for someone who put himself up for organize it. After a certain time passed in silence, I've really thought I could do it again, but only improving the previous projects for a higher objective, and that would mean: motivation by participants and even strict rules.
So, I've waited for feedback, and the result is: there's no room at the moment for a Crackers'Demo 5 managed as Ingo and me have thought.
Nonetheless, there's change for any other cooperation demo, even with different settings and rules, and I tell in advance my sure and joyful participation in it!
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Posted By
Ati
on 2012-11-14
12:41:17
| Re: crackers demo 5
Nice to see, sceners interest a coop demo. I think, the crackers demos were traditional part to part megademos, and i'd like to see a classic style cd5 megademo. No "press space" style. We can make a continous demo like cd4. I think, the part selector is unnecessary.
And we can contact our plus4 friends (iwiw, facebook, etc), and ask, who would like to give a part to new crackers demo...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-15
02:30:01
| Re: crackers demo 5
Ati: hence, are you suggesting to do not a trackmo (which needs timing) but a timed megademo, unregarding all those stricts rules about time limits, timing between parts, ted/sid sound and so on?
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2012-11-15
04:40:18
| Re: crackers demo 5
I'm with ATI in everything he said.
Crackers' Demo was never a trackmo and in my point of view a trackmo would not be a canonic crackers' demo. It's in its name, anyway: demo, not trackmo. 
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2012-11-15
06:19:01
| Re: crackers demo 5
If you are willing to listen to someone with two half baked "releases" I would say that a "Crackers Demo" is not a trackmo as Ati and Lavina suggested. I'd be willing to participate (everything for the fame ) if I could meet the "DECENT QUALITY STANDARDS" which I obviously don't know what are. Luca, tell us examples of demo parts meeting your definition of it please. I'm obviously interested in the entry limit not the best of bests. Besides this you should specify the requirements as exactly as possible and measure contributions to them. If the part meets them it goes in, if not you send it back to rework or you omit it. I automatically assumed that it will be done by you and none else because in recent years I remember only you Luca and Degauss who managed to organize and lead a cooperative demo effort.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-15
07:10:17
| Re: crackers demo 5
gerliczer: eh yes, the hypotetic rules were quite strict, I've said that in advance. And yes, the so-called "decent quality standars" would have been valued by the organizers, and in case a demopart would have been below those ephemeral standars, it should have been asked to the author to improve it.
All this hasn't been hypotized because we are bad mannered people All the strictness would have been pointed toward two objectives: high homogeneity+quality, and big help for the organizers and their lifetime to be preserved. Let's see what I would mean, taking in Crackers' Demo 4 as specimen.
- high omogeneity+quality:
we all love Crackers' Demo 4, so many cool guys joined in to make it bigger like we've seen, and, like Lavina has pointed out, that's the shape a Crackers' Demo should have; nonetheless, this formula shows two flaws: first, the parts take too much time, ending in a terribly long and slow demo; second, it looks like discontinuous in some points (TED and SID music for example) with the only loader to look like a connecting line.
Me and Ingo have suggested some harder achievements for CD5, which might be valued good or not by others, like trackmo, personal loading effect and more. As Ingo first, and me soon after, pointed out, that was an attempt to build up a different idea, no one wanna force his personal view, and both me and him would join any other organized coopdemo
- help the organizers:
by direct and multiple experience, the more fun you get from organizing a coopdemo, the more time you burn out in order to achieve it; strict rules are for leave the organizers to organize (plus their own parts, if they take part too!); look at Crackers' Demo 4 or 8 Shades Of Black and count how many addons we put in, even in other sceners'parts; and now, try to sum up all the lavished additional time we didn't count into because unexpected. Strict rules were for better organizing, not because we like "childish-messiahing" around
I'm very happy to see there are opinions about the thread Ati started, this is a sort of richness in this little scene! We proposed our idea and it doesn't seem to work for anybody; now, I wish another view of CD5 will come, from someone which of course propose it and manage it too (otherwise we babble on this), because I'll take part for sure.
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2012-11-15
07:36:34
| Re: crackers demo 5
Hi Luca,
I'm not agaist the strict rules. I know that it makes the life of the organizers easier and it preserves us (the others in our scene) the hope that they (the orgas) will do it sometime again in the future and they don't refuse it without thinking. All I tried to say is that please be specific about those rules.
I agree that the eclectic style and varying quality of parts of earlier Crackers Demos is nowadays quite inacceptable and homogenity is a very big plus. But one of the first requirements, in my view, for a homogenous production is a good and foremost continuous soundtrack which is hard to make (who would do it from the less than half a dozen active TED musicians?).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-15
07:58:19
| Re: crackers demo 5
gerliczer: yes, you got a good point! But that's why we added the other two rules: number one, prepare a loader effect even with music (or decide to accept the previous part's music, it can be done too!), in order to have at least few continuous and linking tunes; number two, we don't draw and don't compose for you, if you need a TED tune, it's time to find someone who can do it for you, we care the final resulting part only.
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Posted By
Csio
on 2012-11-22
21:52:38
| Re: crackers demo 5
Hey Luca! I like your ideas!
Espec. the loader system - you get the controll from the previous part with fadeout music, next crunch, and first coming your loader part (what packed size fits in memory about $e53d-f980), next loading and after coming your main part. hahh! good?!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-11-23
02:13:52
| Re: crackers demo 5
...and your main part starts exactly when you wanna let it starts, synchronized with your tune which runs since the intro part (or simply keeping the music from the previous part, if you don't wanna have your own music). Yes, that was the idea: nimble, dynamic, neat.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2013-04-18
03:36:19
| Re: crackers demo 5
Resurrecting this sad and old thread because I've read the rules assigned to Demo Of The Year (DOTY)* and found there are not so distant from what someone of us had suggested here.
* = DOTY is a hybrid between a cooperation demo and a competition, which has been held since dozen years in the C64 scene.
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