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Posted By

Gaia
on 2009-01-30
13:29:05

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Well, if anyone is going to be sued that'd Maurice himself by an angry mob at comp.sys.cbm, given the fact that he has collected a lot of money for products and services that he never delivered while he has basically vanished.

Posted By

JamesC
on 2009-01-30
10:47:50

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Posted by SVS: However the copyright owner (Maurice R.) did allow official autorization to send a copy of GEOS +4 when any user can demonstrate to have a legal copy of GEOS 1.0 or 2.0 (for C64 then).

The German version of GEOS 64/128 was, at the time, still copyrighted by Berkeley Softworks. The Plus/4 port was not an official Berkeley Softworks product, but a port done by (or authorized by) M&T for the German market. M&T's contract with Berkeley Softworks allowed this, as long as a royalty was paid to Berkeley just as if it was a 64 or 128 version.

The agreement I made with Maurice Randall allows providing a copy of GEOS Plus/4 for a small postage and media charge (Maurice suggested US$5, which is reasonable here in the States) to anyone who sends their GEOS 2.0 disk as proof of ownership. The GEOS 2.0 disk was to be marked (a red mark on a black disk would most likely not be seen unless you knew where to look) before returning it, per Maurice's instructions. No royalties are paid to Maurice Randall under this agreement.

As SVS was the person who converted GEOS Plus/4 to English, I made agreement with Maurice for SVS to handle diskette requests, in addition to myself. In this way, should either SVS or I disappear from the scene, the other could keep GEOS Plus/4 alive... plus it allowed SVS the recognition that he rightfully deserves.

Once Maurice Randall placed "neutered" copies of GEOS 2.0 on his site, I did the same with GEOS 3.5. This is technically a violation of the agreement with Maurice, but I did email him to notify him that I had done so, and he has not requested their removal.

Posted by Csabo: My 2 cents Canadian on the copyright: first of all, the issue is moot because the software no longer has any commercial value. I mean who's gonna buy it? (Maybe JamesC can elaborate on that one.) Second, basically we all have it (and still don't use it ). I mean once it's on the internet, it's impossible to delete it. Third, if the Plus/4 version is in fact a "user conversion", then the original copyright holder may have legal rights to sue the person who took part of their code, but has no control over the copyright of the resulting product.

Csabo, I've not had a single GEOS 2.0 disk sent to me for proof of ownership. I do not know if SVS has received any, or not.

The arrangement with Maurice Randall takes care of the right to sue. If anyone would exercise that right, it would be Maurice. And under US copyright law, 'commercial value' is not a factor. Here, I can break or remove copy protection for my own use if necessary for the product to work with the hardware available, but it would still be illegal for me to distribute the resulting unprotected software. (I can instruct "how to", I just can't provide it "already done for you".)

This is a tangent to the original discussion: if you post software online, be careful of where the server is located. If your server is based in the US, then your software is subject to US copyright law, as the US-based server is the distribution point. This is why Pirate Bay makes a big deal out of being a Swedish website with Swedish hosting, as they're not subject to US law.

Posted By

Sidius
on 2009-01-22
03:04:01

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Oluf Heinrichsen
(removed by Admin due to privacy concerns)

Posted By

SVS
on 2009-01-22
02:35:53

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Then:
please someone start attempting to contact Oluf!
"we want you!"

Posted By

Csabo
on 2009-01-21
14:50:11

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

My 2 cents Canadian on the copyright: first of all, the issue is moot because the software no longer has any commercial value. I mean who's gonna buy it? (Maybe JamesC can elaborate on that one.) Second, basically we all have it (and still don't use it

). I mean once it's on the internet, it's impossible to delete it. Third, if the Plus/4 version is in fact a "user conversion", then the original copyright holder may have legal rights to sue the person who took part of their code, but has no control over the copyright of the resulting product. It's like Psychosis (name intentionally misspelled) sending us a take down notice for Barbarian - they didn't release that game on the Plus/4.

Finally, believe it or not, I own an original copy of GEOS 2.0 for the C64

I brought the whole thing on a garage sale once for the unbelievable price of 20$. I bought it for the drive, but it did come with a machine, printer, joys and software.

Posted By

SVS
on 2009-01-21
14:02:47

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

I've tried some programming utilities, like an assembler that works with +4 version too. Not too bad if you don't care about the foreground colors. Being written without color managing, the screen does maintain the background of the icons from desktop.
If I'm not wrong it seems that GeoWrite works (and print?).

Returning to author matter, if situation was that one you suppose, that is that Oluf has made the convertion in order to sell it to M&T, this could be a fashinating case, because he surely has the deep knowledge of "inside" GEOS that we dream (and all the info and tools!).
It should be very interesting to contact him.
I think JamesC has made an attempt to contact him, some years ago but I don't remember how things went around.

However the copyright owner (Maurice R.) did allow official autorization to send a copy of GEOS +4 when any user can demonstrate to have a legal copy of GEOS 1.0 or 2.0 (for C64 then).

Posted By

Chicken
on 2009-01-21
08:12:42

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Well, I don't quite agree. Many people who "convert" a game left in the original copyright notice and/or logo. And if you would approach someone to buy a ported version you would put in their logo, too, wouldn't you? Plus, by keeping the original copyright notice you don't say "It's all my work" and that might keep you out of trouble.

If it would have been an "official" M&T release, then they would have had ads in their magazines. (M&T published for instance 64'er, the biggest C 64 magazine around.) Furthermore, the German GEOS 2.0 (on which the plus/4 version seems to be based upon) is M&T branded all over. (I have a boxed version here.)

But until the author sheds some light onto this, it's nothing but speculation.

The graphics are RLE-compressed if I remember correctly. Yes, there are a couple of nice ideas implemented in GEOS. But the biggest downfall is that it is quite slow due to the disk caching.

I haven't tested other GEOS applications. Have you done so? What about the other important applications like GeoWrite and such?

Posted By

SVS
on 2009-01-21
07:26:38

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

In the '91 I have started to work inside the GEOS, (the result was the English version that you know), then I've gathered some (paper) documentation and other info.
First of all, I have to say that GEOS is one of the bestwritten package I've seen ever. It has a lot of genial ideas and these features are on +4 version too.
For example pictures are compressed in a GEOS-Style way, which algorytm is almost complex. The +4 version of welcome screen has embedded the M&T logo, then I suppose it was created by them. If it was only a "private" convertion by Oluf, he probably would not like to face further difficulties for nothing.
The colors managing is new on +4 version, being not present in C64 versions.
However a good level of compatibility was maintained, so that many utilities written for C64 version still work (apart the colors backgrounds).
Regarding the date, if I well remember the 01-01-90 was the default is one does not modify it.

Posted By

Chicken
on 2009-01-20
17:05:40

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Posted By

Csabo
on 2009-01-20
16:18:10

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

So can we track him down like we did with Udo?

Posted By

Chicken
on 2009-01-20
14:04:43

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

That's it

I should have checked again.

I was pretty sure it wasn't done by any of the "sceners" because they would have talked about it in demos and such.

Oluf Heinrichsen did some other programs, too. More in the "serious" computer use direction.

The only thing I found here is:
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Script_Plus_V2_1

But I'm sure I read that name before (since "Oluf" is not a very common name here, it stuck in my head).

Posted By

gerliczer
on 2009-01-20
13:41:37

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

GEOS states in its "About" window (GEOS/GEOS-Info) the following:

Konvertirung für plus/4:
Oluf Heinrichsen

It could be a start.

Posted By

Gaia
on 2009-01-20
11:36:32

Re: Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

Interesting speculation. Let us search for hidden texts in the code then for hints

Posted By

Chicken
on 2009-01-20
09:17:13

Who ported GEOS to plus/4?

I know, there are a couple of threads on GEOS 3.5 already. But this didn't fit in too well...

I don't think the plus/4 version was coded by "Markt & Technik" or any programmers associated to M&T. (M&T was the official distributor of GEOS for the C64/C128 here in Germany.)

Actually, I believe that someone ported GEOS to plus/4 (the version number was obviously used in an analogy to the basic version, thus 3.5 meaning it's the plus/4 one) and approached M&T to buy it and they just weren't interested in marketing a plus/4 version. Probably because the 8bit (especially the plus/4) market was already on the demise. So this person released GEOS anonymously.

Most likely, it was done by someone in Germany. (Not only because it's the German version but also because it supports two 1551 drives which were widely available here and quite popular among plus/4 users.)
Including a 1551 speeder suggests knowledge of the 1551. Not too many ppl around in the early 90s (or late 80s?) who were specialising in floppy drive coding. On the other hand, code could have just been ripped from programs by Ceekay, Starsoft (aka Plasma, I think he was the first one to do some kind of 1551 speeders in backup programs), Pigmy and Csory.

I'd really like to know who did it. Any hints? Or details I didn't see?