Posted By
Funkydude
on 2005-12-07
03:08:52
|  Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Any update on this? This is a great demo game and has a lot to feature. Udo type programming  Mike??
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Posted By
Sidius
on 2005-12-07
05:45:35
 | Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
@Funkydude:
Do you still have the/a demo ?
Or something other of it ?
Unfortunately, I had deledet all my material.... 
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Posted By
Sidius
on 2005-12-07
05:52:12
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Has been unnecessary....I have found again everything !
Who looks, which finds. 
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Posted By
SVS
on 2005-12-07
08:12:37
 | Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
@Luca: be quite, BE QUITE!!! #-]
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Posted By
Luca
on 2005-12-07
11:07:16
 | Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Mike knows well that I'm quite ready to work on XeO3 like hell, if only he moves a single finger for the project.
He'd taken a looong pause cause lack of time, and I released the XeO3 tunes on HVSC, sure about composing decent substitutes in the future.
When Mike, then Luca. Sure.
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Posted By
indi
on 2005-12-08
17:44:19
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Okay.... the story so far.... In a galaxy fa.....
In my last job, I was going low end stuff, so wanted a break and did high end at home. This is the point I needed a break, and didnt have any time.
Now, Im doing very highend stuff at work, and relaxing by doing low end at home again. Im currently doing a full devkit for the 6502 machines (+4, C64, Vic20 etc), and after that I may go on and do some actual coding on them (since I'll actually have a devkit)
But Im not sure I want to do +4 stuff, I might prefer to do C64 stuff.
I found a very cool old parallax demo I did on the C64, which I might resurect. but it uses lots of characters so probably won't work on the +4. Also, sprites just make life easier. I always wanted to make a game or something out of it, but was never allowed to.
But Ive not decided yet.
But yes....I may be around more now....
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Posted By
Luca
on 2005-12-08
18:18:08
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Mike, though my chronic problems about finding a decent job, you know I'm here to burn when you trigger.
To all the others: thanks to Mike, the current XeO3 URL is:
http://www.javalemmings.com/xeo3/
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Posted By
Luca
on 2005-12-08
18:18:08
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Mike, though my chronic problems about finding a decent job, you know I'm here to burn when you trigger.
To all the others: thanks to Mike, the current XeO3 URL is:
http://www.javalemmings.com/xeo3/
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Posted By
SVS
on 2005-12-12
02:23:15
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
>>@Luca: be quite, BE QUITE!!! #-]
I meant "quiet", of course...
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Posted By
indi
on 2005-12-24
06:32:23
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
You guys should check out this old C64 demo I did years ago.... It probably isn't possible to do a game using this on the plus/4, but the basic effect certianly is...
http://gtw64.retro-net.de/Pages/g/Review_Game4.php
Theres also a small chat about it on Lemon64
http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=216423#216423
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Posted By
funkydude
on 2005-12-25
12:21:31
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Awesome demo Mike
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Posted By
Luca
on 2005-12-30
18:57:56
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Yep, Mike, I'd seen that demo and drooled alot.
I'd never seen that kind of vertical parallax fx on +4, and I'd saw his horizontal equivalent so few times... :/
E.g., in "Rotten" demo.
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Posted By
indi
on 2005-12-31
05:37:20
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Yep seen (and used) Horizontal ones a bit as well. They tend to be a stack of characters built into the map, this ones "special" because it merges to maps, allowing for a true unique background.
Its a pitty that it takes so many characters to do, or the Plus4 would be able to use it, but since theres no H/W sprites on the P4, well... its just not really possible.
Also, vertical is better, because you can still scroll 1 pixel at a time, even in MCM.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-04
18:24:07
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Luca: Can you email me....Im not sure of your current email address. Ta.
Also, Ive setup http://xeo3.plus4.net/
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-04
19:23:15
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Correct address! And I'd just cried for happiness.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-04
20:13:02
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Yay, XEO3 is back. Did you guys ever consider making the project open source? Maybe more people would contribute.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-05
06:30:29
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
I said I'd have been happy for someone else to take it over, but there was no real interest. Someone said they might have, but didnt like using other peoples code.
Besides....I always said Id get round to it...............one day
Im still not promising anything....My work will always be demanding, but at least now the code is in a usable state. It was a bit of a mess before as I'd left it "half" edited - I also lost a lot of it. Still, water under the bridge as they say.
Its funny, I've spent around 1/2 a day on it, and its come on further in that than the last 3 years!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-05
10:27:10
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
"Funny"! He said "funny"! 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-05
10:36:27
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
That's cool, progress is progress. It would be nice to see it completed.
Regarding open source: I guess we (meaning the scene) have a long way to go. A unified development system would be nice for example.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-05
12:22:49
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
At the moment Im using my SNASM assembler (currently V1.3) since I can update/fix as need be.
Im using a mix of Minus4/Yape for viewing+debugging. Minus4 has better debug features, and I can add more when I need them, but Yape is pinpoint acurate when displaying the game.
I send the game down to the actual plus/4 a lot with the uploader I have, and hope to get the remote debugger to a usable state along the way.
I use codewrite to edit - althogh this could be any text editor, even MSVC with "custom" compiling.
Im not sure what the "best" system for "scene" development would be...
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-05
12:36:21
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
The best system for the scene would be... an open source development environment of course. We would build together, it would do everything we need and it would kick ass. I started Plus4IDE, and I develop everything I do in it, but it hasn't become too successful. If someone else could write something better, where one can go from writing code to seeing it working in one keypress, I'm all for it
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-05
13:08:14
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Yeah....I did play with that, and it was okay. I think Im just too set in my ways with editors to be honest. I "do" like ones that include debuggers etc. and if there was some sort of "link" to YAPE or Minus4, so you could single step through your source while it stepped the code, that WOULD be cool....
SNasm is freeware too BTW. It also has a couple of new options to make C64 and Plus4 basic run commands for you.
opt prg ; save 2 byte PRG header
opt plus4 = MainStart ; save BASIC command to RUN program
org $1010 ; "normal" start-up ORG
MainStart:
sei
and so on. The "opt" plus4 takes the address you specify and makes a basic line pointing to it, and the "opt" prg makes it a .PRG file for you
I got fed up making basic lines by hand
It also has shorthand for &255 and >>8 stuff like this...
lda # sta $fffe
lda #>IRQ_Handler
sta $ffff
and lastly something I pinched from the old PDS code.. a HEX command...
HEX 0f071205200d0f0e09140f1200
Which allows Hex arrays to be entered and displayed a bit easier
I'll update it and put it up on the web site in a bit if anyone wants to play with it. The whole games built with it so it should be fairly stable.
Also does "pretend" ORG's.
org $600
Blah...
pcorg $600
Code to copy.
This lets you build code that will be moved to the correct location later, which is dead handy for things like the uploader which runs at a lower address, but build in a single block.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-05
15:29:21
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Making up basic lines should never be necessary, this is what an IDE would be for. You know, inserting or autogenerating code segments.
Being set in our ways is a problem... I know MC uses his own assembler too, which has some features no other one has. I guess SNasm doesn't support AS's CMAP mapping. It's a must for writing scrollers, storing non-ascii text etc.
Perhaps we need to develop an IDE that can use anything for the backend compiling, and anything for the emulation. Come to think of it Plus4IDE is already built like that.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-05
16:25:16
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
I have thought about Adding a DB for doing Plus/4 text.... if thats what you mean.... Its easy enough, and is the advantage of having your own assembler!
As for scrollers.... I guess since you almost always use a custom character set, then why remap them in the first place? Just make your character set with the letters and numbers in the correct locations.
On the very rare occasion you use the systesm font, then yes.... a remap of ASCI to CBM would be handy.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-05
19:56:00
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
What was the last time you wrote a demo (or a scoller)? Most fonts don't have the chars mapped properly for various reasons. (Hyper Sports had all the letters mapped to their "keypress code equivalents" - really weird stuff. Without remapping, it would have been near impossible to make a menu. But once you map them, you can write whatever you want.)
For me it's mostly for space. If a scroller doesn't use "J" or "Q", I don't even make those chars. Not to mention most scrolltexts need very few punctuation marks, most just comma, period, exclamation point. In order for these to be at the "right place", you'd need to make all the chars in between.
It's not that difficult to add either I guess.
DB, DW are a must though.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-05
20:10:24
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
DB amd DW saved my day lotta times too, during CD4 part development.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-06
05:29:00
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Ahhh...I see what you mean. You want to be able to set a remap table for each character so that you can lose some if you dont need them.
Yeah... thats possible.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-10
06:58:06
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Actually....Talking of "The Scene"... One of this things that was never mentioned on the WEB page, was that once its done, the complete source + devkit (SNasm) will be released as well.
The whole idea behind this was to write a reusable sprite routine that the scene could use (since its worst thing to have to write - and the thing that puts most people off).
It should also allow for a few hybrid shooters to appear, since they can easily change all the graphics, paths and even the game fllow if they like.
I always wonder why coders for old platforms never release the code with the game... its not like theres loads of money in it... its all about "the scene", and free code helps the scene a lot.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-10
07:27:49
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
"XeO3's Construction Kit"?
At the moment, XeO3's homepage had been frozen, cause the whole game is undergoing several upsettings. I'll bring it to date when we reach a certain stability.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-10
07:38:53
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
I assume you mean "several changes" and not "several upsettings"
"several upsettings" suggests you think its going downhill fast and won't be any good... rather than just changing, sometimes for the better.
Games do this a lot.... I dont know of ANY game that hasn't evolved during development.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-10
08:18:58
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Yeah, several changes, you're right. My flu's going worse than ever
Several revolutionary changes.
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Posted By
TMR
on 2006-01-10
11:12:49
 | Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
i don't release my source for a very good reason; you'd know what it was if you'd seen my source! =-)
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-10
13:36:56
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Full of stolen stuff?
Ok, that was below the belt. But other than that I can only think of "bad formatting, lack of comments" type excuses, which is just not good enough.
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-10
14:32:05
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Actually, source code - even if there are no comments and its a mess, is still handy. People can derive other games from it (and lets be honest! ANY new game is great to have on an old system), also if there are special effects, you can play with it and see how they are done.
Its ALWAYS good to have source available....even if its not buildable!
And believe me.............Ive seen code that would make your eyes water!!! I spent 3 days formatting the 68000 source to Ballistix from the Atari ST. 13,000 lines!!!!
Tab, down, left, tab, down, left, tab,down, left, tab,down,left.......etc. 13000 times!!
*sob*
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-10
14:51:53
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
13,000...  Jeez...
Probably, we all have terrible stories like that
Lemme remember some....mmmm... Ah, until issue 11 of LoneNews, I used to enter the whole text in Monitor! Due to my lack of ML skill, charset starts from $3668, then it's not so easy type in that way 40 pages. Now I write, i.e., "reddi lamer": $e0 $d3 $d2 $d2 $d7 $00 $da $cf $db $d3 $50.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-10
14:52:48
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Ops, the last was $e0, ofcourse
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-01-10
15:23:30
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Plus, anyone who doesn't release the source just gets DisAssembled anyway.
Mike, if you had Plus4IDE back then, you could have just pressed CTRL+R, and record a nice keyboard macro. It's extremely useful for formatting tasks like that.
Out of curiosity, I just added up the source lines of my megademo. It's 38181, not counting include files that are just data (DB, DW). After 14 years there's gotta be something to show... But I'm getting off topic though. Yay Xeo3!
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-11
02:19:55
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Yep, but its not "quite" the same... proper labels help, and there "should" be comments of course
Yeah, these days I'd use codewrite an a nice regular expresion and do the lot in a few seconds... but the editors back then (1989) didnt have them...
Also...because of labels, you couldn't just do them all....
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Posted By
TMR
on 2006-01-11
19:16:43
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Very few comments with most of them being expletives, some surreal label names, lots of self modifying code and close to no zero page use and, in one or two cases, bits of code that shouldn't technically work at all! =-)
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Posted By
indi
on 2006-01-12
02:13:27
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Sounds like normal 6502 to me
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2006-01-12
04:32:30
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
A friend of mine used to combine his first name + some ordinal for any label. so he always ended up in having things like:
JMP bla153
very challenging!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-01-15
19:47:46
| Re: Any update on XEO3 - Mike?
Ok, as you read in the news, now you can day by day follow the making of XeO3 here.
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