| Posted By
gerliczer
on 2025-02-07
10:31:13
|  Operating Systems subcategory?
At the time of opening this topic, GEOS 3.5 is categorized as Utility/DTP. However, GEOS is a fully fledged GUI OS, which, among other things, is capable of running DTP applications. I invite the forum visitors to share their views on whether it is better to have an Utility/OS subcategory or not. And while they are at it, they could also suggest what other items should be added to this subcategory. OS92? OS96? SVS-OS? None of these? Some others, too? What do you think?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2025-02-07
16:10:06
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
Maybe this overlaps with Utility/GUI? I see that TRIANGULAR μOS is categorized as such. I haven't really used any of these TBH, so I don't have a strong opinion either way.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2025-02-08
02:32:24
 | Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
This thing usually has worked this way:
- if someone actually releases an alternative OS running on Plus/4, it's seen as an enhancement of the programming skills of the machine, and goes under Utility/Programming; examples are Octasoft BASIC V7.0 and Mega-tool 16;
- if the main target of the prod is a new interface to interact with the user, and perform a series of jobs, that's a new GUI and goes under Utility/GUI regardless its ability to flawlessly work or not (TRIANGULAR μOS, Windows +4...);
- if the prod is specifically intended to create an integrated environment where to develop text, graphics and more, to be further printed, that's Utility/DTP; when Csabo has decided to include this category, he defined it as a combination of Utility/Text + Utility/Print, in fact it involves very little but veeeery targeted stuff (Printmaster, Page-Setter).
About GEOS 3.5, you absolutely have a point in there: it's far more than a mere DTP, we play games on that, just to say one. It falls into Utility/GUI, now changed to it.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2025-02-08
06:07:57
 | Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
Hi, I fully support @gerliczer in that idea, and many thanks for the new categories!
Under the programming section I recently looked for a sprite emulator, and accidentally downloaded some music editors because from the same it was not absolutely clear what it is 
eg. SR-OS with the 80 column soft-font looks very promising!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2025-02-08
06:56:23
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
@MMS did you really stumble into music editors while searching into Utility/Programming? Probably that's a flaw too, please report them to us.
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Posted By
Andras
on 2025-02-08
08:48:14
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
@gerliczer +1
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Posted By
MMS
on 2025-02-08
11:48:38
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
@Luca I will check my downloaded files and will notice you.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2025-02-10
07:35:45
 | Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
I agree with gerliczer' proposal. A specific new SW category for OS and OS-improvements will be useful and would make easier to find these pieces.
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Posted By
siz
on 2025-02-10
15:49:16
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
I agree. We should have a new category for these.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2025-02-10
17:56:58
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
Just to act as the devil's advocate: do you realise that the OS of a tool which includes new GUIs and/or command written in BASIC or ML...are still BASIC or ML? 
Please keep entering the titles of possible candidates to this eventual new category.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2025-02-11
04:39:24
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
IMO any OS improvement to standard one, should be added.
This can help who is interested in such things and maybe does not know them yet
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2025-02-11
06:16:34
| Re: Operating Systems subcategory?
Dear @Luca,
An Operating System is the consistent collection of routines (and programmes in more complicated cases) that operate a computer. It is irrelevant what language it is written in.
Imagine, that you have a machine with, let's say, OS92 installed. Remove those ROM ICs without replacing them with anything and turn on that machine. Will it work? Obviously not, because it has no Operating System installed.
GEOS 3.5 is a little bit different kettle of fish. While you are running it, you have lost the capability to run any programme that is not written specifically for GEOS and it takes over the operation of your machine. You cannot use Datasettes or 1541 drives, you have to use GEOS formatted disks and you can run GEOS applications only. And conversely, you cannot run any GEOS programmes under the default system and you cannot even properly open GEOS files without extra programming. AFAIK.
Therefore, I think we have a strong case for establishing an OS subcategory.
But I agree with you, that all the candidates should be collected to do a thorough job. I wish more people with better knowledge of the software library would contribute to this endeavour.
On a somewhat different note, Commodore 8 bit machines with their KERNAL and BASIC smear the boundary of operating system and applications. KERNAL with the full screen editor and most of the MONITOR is obviously OS. Commands that you give in command mode, or was it direct mode?, should be OS territory, too. Yet, they use the very same BASIC interpreter that runs the BASIC programmes. A running programme is obviously not OS. But it takes much more smarts than I have to decide where does entering the lines of BASIC or Assembly programmes falls.
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