Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Hi, I am looking for a library for the Eagle program. It is a "Memory Expansion" male connector (50-pin) for the commodore +4. I have just developed a diagram of the AY-3-8910 sound cartridge (compatible with what I already have) and I want to design a PCB for it.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion There are some projects with probably readily available designs. OpenC16Cart, Diag264 and the Sidekick64 adapter. But it is unknown to me if they are in a format Eagle can import.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion Zrobiłem to w latah 80 i powiem jedno schemat to AY to to samo co do ZX SPEKTRUM aleb ez ROMU i inne adresy ten shemat był dostępny w BAYTKU. Zainteresowanych proszę o kontakt. A teraz z innej beczki czy myślał ktoś o stworzeniu na c16 czegoś tatiego jak TACART C16 ?Podłączyć TAPECART do C16 to nie sztuka. Są programiści co mogą robić konwesię z c64 na c16 ja tego niepotrafię Wyzwanie kto zrobi programu taki jak "tapecard SD Brwser v1.2" na c16
(no topic) I did it in the 80's and I will say one diagram is AY the same as for ZX SPEKTRUM but from ROMU and other addresses this shemat was available in BAYTEK. If you are interested, please contact me. And now from a different barrel, did anyone think about creating something tatiego like TACART C16? Connect TAPECART to C16 is not an art. There are programmers what can do the conwesia from c64 to c16 I can't do it. Challenge who will make a program like "tapecard SD Brwser v1.2" on c16 (by Google Translate)
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion @kanold: Next time in English, please, if it could be done. People not speaking Polish may also be interested in what you post.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion Well, the problem with the connector is solved! I made my Memory Expansion connector library
@kanold, Unfortunately, the scheme, apart from the general connection of the AY chip, is completely different. For the C16 family, andres must be set to $ FD2x and for this you need 4 additional hands. It could also be done on 2 where one is something like PLA, but then it narrows the group of DIY enthusiasts who have access to the EPROM programmer. In my cartridge, the chip names were removed, so I made a completely new schematic that fulfills exactly the same functions as the original. You can see it at the link:
If there is anyone willing and would like to finish the project, I can share the EAGLE files, where I started drawing the board. When designing, it may often be necessary to rearrange input pins or gates within one chip. This is perfectly acceptable if it will make it easier to follow the track on the board.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion @BKP, a note about your schematic: your BOM is 1x74'133, 1x74'04, 1x74'27, 1x74'20..... Personally I prefer a BOM of: 1x74'133, 3x74'20: this BOM is simple (only2 kinds of logical chip to buy...) and 74'20 is easy to find. check the logic function, they should be equivalent. In my schematic the clk oscillator is composed by 3 inverters, so it can be less "rude": https://www.gadgetronicx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/square-wave-generator-not-gate.jpg
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion @MCes, Well done! This arrangement can be done in many ways. I like your version probably it will be even easier to lead the paths on the board.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion Patience @Luca, patience It's just a matter of time to refine the layout and make a prototype. In this version there will be no additional EPROM, because it is simply unnecessary for audio playback (it only includes the bascic & turbo tape extension).
@Metallic suggests to me placing 2xAY in one housing (!) And writing a player for the C16 to play music with Vortex Tracker. I just don't know if my programming capabilities are too weak, because it's a big challenge :)
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion @BKP, I just saw the AY 38910 data, so my previous schematic can't work because the AY need that BDIR and BC1 have to change simultaneously (max difference of 50nS), and my old schematic can't guarantee this.
Good news: I have a new schematic..... BOM: 1x74'133, 1x74'02, 1x74'139, xtal oscillator (4pin)
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion Hahaha, I have modified the project in Eagle and I am happy to check the forum, and here ... surprise - a new, even better scheme The idea from XTAL-OSC is very interesting, it will simplify the board even more.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion another look at the data showed that the BUS and CHIP timings do not match, so the circuit behavior may be unstable. The only chip that can have a chance to work (but not into the "worst case") is a GENUINE (no fake) Microchip AY38910A (note the "A" version). And remember that when you want to access to the chip the computer clock has to be forced to "1MHz only", at the end of the routine the clock can be restored to it's native "1&2MHz" (into the TED there is a bit to be set/reset) http://datasheet.datasheetarchive.com/originals/scans/Scans-061/DSA2IH0094116.pdf
Otherwise a more complex circuit with a "1 word buffer " have to be implemented: a single CPLD can contain all "glue logic".
Due to the need to use the R / W- signal, one AND gate is needed to connect two addressing lines (here NAND - data logic is a formality, and the rest of the gates will be used to perform CLK for AY). It probably couldn't be easier, and the access time should be sufficient. This solution has the advantage that you can program a few more addresses, e.g. for the second AY
EDIT: 6.02.2021
Slowly forward :) Metallic visited me today with the AY-3-8910 and AY3-8910A chips, which he recently purchased on Aliexpress. We did a test and I replaced them in my cartridge. It was almost good ... "almost", because the reproduced sound sometimes turned out to be falsified, humming somehow. It is probably caused by what the MCes or timings talked about. My extension is made on ordinary digital circuits (gates) and signals probably get lost along the way, not meeting the AY parameters. There is already a schematic and a PCB design of my solution on EPROM (something like PLA). This solution will probably be the most effective and will meet the requirements of the AY system. Now I have to make a prototype and test everything. Of course, I will inform you about the effects :)
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion AY Card little OFF: just to mention, if you have a SID card, you have a good chance to able to play AY musics too (it is just for the later stage, when ou cannot insert both into the machine )
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion GAL would be better, but I have no experience with them and I do not know how and in what environment they are programmed (I have the programmer myself).
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion I found this link after a brief search: http://www.mpu51.com/gal/GAL/jedec.htm. But there must be many other resources on this topic all over the Internet.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion The final is getting closer The tiles are here, I am waiting for one more element. I hope everything goes smoothly and I can hear the new version of AY without distortion.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion This switch is used to change port joy 1 <=> 2. You can not see it in this photo, but on the side I have a standard JOY DB9 socket
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion BKP what a smart choice, congrats! Getting back intopic: finger crossed for the AY board, it's 2021 and we're discovering mad single cells of scene from the Eastern Europe we didn't expect, like your fantastic works and recently obscure stuff like Advertisement (Common).
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion Everything works from the first start! I did not notice any distortions in the sound similar to those when I replaced the current version of the AY chip with the original DIGIMUZ. It just means that my idea of using EPROM as an address decoder worked perfectly I also know why not all my programs played the sound correctly - after analyzing the code, I noticed that I made my first players based on the references to the sound table contained in the EPROM DIGIMUZ. The following programs had the array already integrated. It's only 191 bytes I have a plan to redo the DEMO1 and Castle Dance programs and integrate the aforementioned sound table into them so that they can make sounds on the new DIGIMUZ version. They are the ones who use the external EPROM.
Re: 50-pin plug to memory expansion Hi. The "Castle Dance" program has already been converted into a version that does not require the original EPROM from DIGIMUZ to work! This can be easily checked by running it in an emulator without loading an extra ROM. It just means that with my AY card you will already hear music, not random sounds
@LUCA, please transfer this file to my account: [ Link ]
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @MMS, now that the cartridge is ready, you can take care of the soft and converting music from Spectrum, etc. that had the AY sound system . Unfortunately, my programming knowledge is modest compared to other great programmers here on the forum and I hope that someone will take care of it now It would also be nice if someone adapted a good current tracker to AY - I would gladly compose some music directly on C + 4
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @MMS, porting Spectrum music should be relatively straightforward, CPC and ST will need some more work, as the AY/YM is clocked at different speeds on those machines (1MHz on the CPC, 2MHz on the ST).
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @Ulysses777, Wow, how did you do that? Is there any converter for transferring music from spectrum to commodore? Write something more, because the topic is very interesting. I will try to check if it will play on hardware as soon as possible. I just need to add .prg to my C + 4
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 OK,maybe I missed some key information. So I suppose YAPE has a 1.1.9 beta with AY support. But where I can download it?
I read though the topic, and checked Gaia's page too, but the 1.1.8 is the latest one I can get, and certainly it has no sound with these great tech demos...
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Or maybe officially release Yape1.1.9 in the tools database. @Gaia, what do you think? Digimuz is properly emulated, and the errors that I noticed during testing result from the different approach to programming the Digimuz extension. Initially, I used references to EPROM in my programs, and then it enlightened me and transferred important parts directly into the main program. I was probably afraid that if the EPROM is damaged, I will lose the ability to play music
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 To log in, you need a username (which you have) and a password - which we can't give you privately unless you contact us. Please email me or Luca.
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Yeah, thx for the YAPE 1.1.9, especially to Gaia !
It sounds really great! Really enjoyed the great tunes, and checked the old demos too. It is a great new feature with great possibilities (as the SID chips became unfortunately rare and expensive).
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Today shortly ... Everything works! We need a magician now to show you how to convert music from popular formats supported by AY
Hi. Another music pack for DigiMuz. Convert from pt3. Forgive me, I haven't coded to 6502 the last 20 years, hardly any plus4, never before on AY-3-8910 . It's a simple transfer of the player from the ORIC computer. Nothing big. Happy listening.
PS. Casbro, I sent you a password request. If the e-mail has not been delivered, you can find my e-mail address in the fc.prg module
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @Metallic, I did not expect such a commitment from AY from you! I'm looking for people all over the world, and the music conversion is done by a guy I know since I was a child Thanks a lot !!! This is not the end of this, I start learning Vortex Tracker and start creating melodies, and in the future maybe some bigger demo, if time allows
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Thank you for the great tunes and the efforts! I've just read Oric, was a nice computer, based on 6502 with YM (most of the YM computers were Z80 based).
The other great contributor could be Apple II (Mockingboard from 1983 used two YM combined with 6522 VIAs), I've just found a great article on the YM formats and the 6502 @1MHz limitations (on compressed formats). With some fine YM tunes too https://www.fenarinarsa.com/?p=1454
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @Luca, as you can see, everything is developing in a very good direction Now, when we have achieved so much in hardware and a player has appeared thanks to which you can listen to many melodies, it can only be better There is also interest in the project on the local Polish forum: ) People ask about Yape with DIGIMUZ emulation - can it be officially downloaded here in the Tools section? Or maybe @Gaia is still waiting for testing, because there is no version 1.1.9 on its official website?
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Happy to see the interest and keep up the spirit! I found a few bugs so I am ironing them out and once done will push out a new release soon now I hope.
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @Gaia, this is one more observation ... Demo 2 plays music correctly on the new Digimuz, while in the emulator (of course without the DIGIMUZ ROM) the beginning is false, but when I press reset (F11) it starts to play properly. Demo 2 has a reset protection. Perhaps after loading the program at the beginning there is no initialization in the emulator, which activates after F11 ?
"The ultimate musical tool for Amstrad CPC, Atari ST/XE/XL, ZX Spectrum, MSX, Oric, Apple 2, Vectrex and Sharp MZ-700!
A small but important update, as it corrects a few (rare) bugs in some players. And thanks to the work of xxl, Atari XE/XL can now use AT2 and its AKY player! Yes, the family is getting bigger!"
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @Gaia, !!!! Sorry for the confusion !!!! I did additional tests. It turned out that I made a register initialization error in DEMO2 and it behaves the same on the emulator and on the NEW DIGIMUZ card. I got lost during the tests Too many different experiences and my conclusions got confused. Once again, sorry for misleading you.
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Cześć czy jet jakaś możliwość zakupu tej płytki od ciebie bo widziałem że masz kilka sztuk był bym zainteresowany 1 szt całkowicie mi wystarczy.
(no topic) Hello, is there any possibility to buy this tile from you because I saw that you have several pieces? I would be interested in 1 piece, that's enough for me. (by Google Translate)
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Tak, będzie taka możliwość. Ostatnio mam bardzo dużo pracy i musiałem hobby trochę odsunąć na bok. Proszę jeszcze o chwilę cierpliwości.
(no topic) Yes, it will be possible. Recently I have a lot of work and I had to put my hobby aside a bit. I am asking for a moment of patience. (by Google Translate)
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Well, work kills all the fun of life, I know it very well.
Please let us know, when you've been freed from slavery
BTW about the programming of the new DIGIMUZ (AY) card: is there any suggestion or documentation of registers and how to initialize and program it? Many thanx. (I suppose the registers are in the same order as on Sinclair 128)
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 @MMS, Csabo he overtook me It may look complicated, but in practice I was making myself additional artificial registers, which my player later referred to. This simplified the entire structure of the program, because in the case of expanding these artificial registers, I did not have to change the player, but only add support for the introduced changes. On the other hand, when I was creating a new player, I used the already existing simplified registers and that is how it all complemented each other. The newest player (and the last one I made on C+4) is the one in the MusicTracker Demo program (available on my profile) - unfortunately I stopped writing this music program because I fell in love with the Amiga.
One more important thing (!) I have a little problem with the ORIC player for pt3 files. Metallic did a good job of adapting it to C + 4, but there is a mistake somewhere, because the converted music has too high a tonal transposition compared to the original. I tried to find the reason, but the time and probably the C16 programming skills are not the same as before. If someone would like to look for the reason, I will provide all the materials (example music files .pt3, player source, original ORIC player, compiler, instructions on how to connect and run it all). If it was working properly, I could write a PC program that would import .pt3 with one click and create a ready file that plays .prg on C16 /+4
Re: Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4 Please let us know when it is ready for order
ATARI ST's Yamaha 2149 IC is essentially the same chip, could use 6MHz master clock (io 4MHz), but not mandatory to use it's higher envelope resolution.
Extension AY3-8910 for C16 / 116 / + 4
Wooooh listen to those super tunes!
more and more.
