Posted By
Ati
on 2011-04-23
02:18:09
|  New demo
Go to Scene.hu and see Revision 2011 article and posts! 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-04-23
09:11:29
| Re: New demo
For those who don't read Hungarian, the word is that there's a new co-op demo by MAD/Bauknecht and Degauss/TEK, using the Krill/Plush loader.
Let hope someone has mercy on us and sends it our way soon.
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Posted By
Rachy
on 2011-04-23
18:33:22
| Re: New demo
Nice work! Gratz!
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Posted By
Byteman
on 2011-04-24
05:07:54
| Re: New demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K90KXEiHTYg
Maybe, the BEST demo ever released for +4!!!!!!
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Posted By
Skoro
on 2011-04-24
05:19:27
| Re: New demo
AWESOME !!!!!
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Posted By
Lacoste
on 2011-04-24
06:04:41
 | Re: New demo
This is fantastic! But, the worst music I ever heard!!
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Posted By
Ian Coog
on 2011-04-24
07:37:46
| Re: New demo
absolutely fab demo, I've enjoyed every bit of it
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2011-04-24
09:18:07
| Re: New demo
Hi Guys!
Phew! Yes, we have finally put something releaseable together and we're quite happy with it. Apparently it's been unclear to the very last moment if we get finished. Its been quite demanding if not challenging to mix real-life-stuff with "making a demo work". The worst of all: My little son started having high temperature + vomiting on friday evening. Thats when i decided to stay at home and to miss seeing the demo on the bigscreen myself.
Nonetheless: I hope you all like the demo. I will post detailed credits tomorrow or tuesday... Happy Easter!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-25
06:00:32
 | Re: New demo
I'm, back right now from the easter trip. I saw the demo. At the moment, I'm too shocked to say a word. Have to run it again. And again. And again. And Again. And...
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Posted By
Murphy
on 2011-04-25
06:35:31
| Re: New demo
Great and original effects, good minimalist design, powerfull (but a bit repetitive soundtrack).
Actually this is the best plus/4 demo, and it's win the C64 compo!
Congrat guys!
There is only missing some well pixeled colorfull graphics. 
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-25
10:19:43
| Re: New demo
Service call service call: I'm adding entry and news, and there's no data about Nero/BKN. Any help?
edit:
- this is the first time that YAPE runs smoothly a "hard" demo an plus4emu fails the first part! Is it me, or does it happens to you all too?
- in the zoom4 bobs'part it looks like there are two missing characters in the lower text, and in the morbid shapes'raindrops tunnel there is some garbage under the right standing picture: emulator affairs or...?
Anyway, I still can't believe the intro effect, looks like the most extreme FPP ever seen, I've seen something of that kind in the credits of Questionmark only! Astonishing!
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2011-04-25
14:01:20
 | Re: New demo
truely amazing. Congrats to da authors.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-25
14:24:07
| Re: New demo
We've officially shored to "newschool" effects, better late than never I say. Not because this demo as first, but States United puts a sort of seal on this fact once forever. The only effect I havent's seen yet on Plus/4 is the texturemapped rotator a-la Booze Design or Oxyron.
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Posted By
Murphy
on 2011-04-25
20:47:16
| Re: New demo
Nero: http://artcity.bitfellas.org/index.php?a=artist&id=981
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-26
03:07:04
| Re: New demo
Thanks Murphy added as a note.
My hope: States United released in April'11 -> ignition of coders'souls -> Árok'11
We all have exactly 3 months by now.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2011-04-26
05:58:17
| Re: New demo
Some more detailed credits:
Intropart: Graphics by Nero, Code by Degauss
3D-Flares: Code by Degaus
Line-Tunnel: Code by Mad, Graphics by Nero
Wobbler: Code by Mad, Graphics by Nero
"Roofwatch": Graphics by Nero, Glitchy-Display-Code by Degauss
Arte-Lookalike Floortunnel: Code by Degauss
Berks: Code by Degauss
Ball / Easter-Egg: Code by Mad, Graphics by... hmm, Mad or Nero or Decca
Psychedelic Bars: Code by Mad
Voxel-Landscape: Code by Mad, Charset and Textdisplay by Decca
Loader by Krill
Music and Linking by Degauss
Nero by the way is a member of Still and LKCC. Krill is a member of plush.
There are tons of glitches in this demo and every single on of them is my responsibility. Examples: Some (visible) writes to FF19 in the display-area. On real-iron you can see FF1F-writes come in too late in the intropart and the part before the voxels. In some cases you can hear the music slow down (especially in "roofwatch), thats where i failed to integrate the loader properly.
@Luca: The intro-effect is based on a straight FPP-code. the only difference is that instead of sin+sin changes it adds a random displacement for every line. the displacement gets bigger/smaller over time to achieve a nice crossfade.
Krills Loader btw is really powerful. I think it pulls data-rates > 3Kb/Sec if you leave enough cpu-time.
Thats it. Hope i didn't miss something.
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Posted By
Murphy
on 2011-04-26
07:17:04
| Re: New demo
Cool!
The source of the loader is accessible in the near future?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-26
10:31:09
| Re: New demo
Luca:
- this is the first time that YAPE runs smoothly a "hard" demo an plus4emu fails the first part! Is it me, or does it happens to you all too?
After some time spent trying to debug the issue, I found that simply setting the device type of unit 9 from 1551 to 1541 fixes the crash that happens already while loading the first part. By default, an IEC level 1551 is emulated as unit 9, which seems to break the loader of the demo. I am not sure if this is an emulator problem, or actually a bug in the demo ? What happens when running this demo on a real machine that has two drives attached (1541 as U8 and 1551 as U9) ?
In any case, after the drive type change, it seems to run, although I could not compare it to a real machine, as the demo only runs from disk, and I can only run single .prg files on my Plus/4.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-26
10:54:40
| Re: New demo
P.S.: it actually does not seem to run for me on any configuration that includes a second drive, regardless of its type.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-26
14:17:09
| Re: New demo
Ah great, I did! I had to set both 08 and 09 drives as 1541, bypass IEC and choose "disable unused drives". Of course, Krill's trackloader works on 1541 only, the weird thing is it crashes even if another 1551 is connected...why?
Well, I checked on YAPE, and it does exactly the same! 
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2011-04-26
14:39:01
| Re: New demo
@Murphy:
I guess so, yes. But it is Krill, who decides. Just give it a try and ask him...
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2011-04-26
15:07:04
| Re: New demo
I've been in (and out of) touch with Krill for about a year while he was porting his "track-loader" to the plus/4. I think he is the type of guy who will release the source for sure. He even explicitely asked where he could best announce it and I pointed him to right here So keep your fingers crossed. I even have at least two binding resolutions (Murphy and SJP) to prepare a demo once a decent trackloader is available!
The real benefit of this loader is that it reads sectors as they pass the head and this is exactly where the greatest optimization can be achieved, not by pushing the actual bitbanging part to the limit (which is not irrelevant nevertheless, but less important).
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-26
15:29:35
| Re: New demo
yesss, trackloader for president!
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2011-04-26
15:39:44
| Re: New demo
BTW, the stuff also - sort of - "works" under VICE, with the above premises. Since the clock synchronization there is not quite like the real thing and yet the loader is blazing fast (it even reaches 3.7 kb/s throughput at times) it also proves the point.
Oh, and there is an interesting thing: the loader is faster under NTSC. Which is odd! Anyone care to take the time to figure out why?
Just got mail from Krill and he reassured that there would be a unified, "multiplatform" full source code release due within a month or two.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-26
16:20:16
| Re: New demo
Fantastic news Gaia! About a possible comeback from Resource and Exceed: I'm just in waiting mode 
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2011-04-26
17:52:47
| Re: New demo
Kickass demo guys (as I told you personally, but will gladly repeat )
About the second drive issue:
Most demo-loaders these days use 2-bit data transfer (CLK _and_ DATA). ATN now gets abused for clock instead. Of course, a second drive will notice ATN as well and interfere. Thus, you must turn off all other drives. This is quite standard on the c64 (for a while now, if I may be honest ). "Friendly" demos check for that and inform the user.
(BTW I am very happy that Krill ported his loader. That relieves me from the promise I gave Degauss for porting DreamLoad And just ask him if you can't wait for the source release. Most people I know have "inofficial" versions.)
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-26
18:20:34
| Re: New demo
Yes, I am aware of the serial bus issues with loaders, but in this case the loader fails also if the second drive is a 1551, which does not use the serial bus. In fact, the problem happens very early, before the program even accesses the bus directly, at a time when only kernal calls are used to detect/initialize the drive. That is why I thought there might be a bug in the code.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-27
03:52:30
| Re: New demo
Let's talk about the demo itself a bit.
3rd part: Linetunnel. That's a very interesting part, I see chars, maybe here we have a certain number of chars (224?) in order to approximate all the needed shapes between different "depth" levels.
4th part: Wobbler. Is it zoom4 too?
8th part: Easter-egg. Is it zoom4 too?
9th part: Psychedelic Bars. This one has been shocking to me! It looks like a "muscles" effect just like, say, the one in Brainwash's 3rd part, but with much more ff07/ff13/ff16/ff17 playing per scanline! The FPP is the logo in States United, and now I see that probably there is no FPP effect in the Brainwash part at all...
10th part: Voxel Landscape. Zoom4, am I right?
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2011-04-27
06:00:25
| Re: New demo
Istvan: Point taken.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2011-04-27
08:16:05
| Re: New demo
@Luca:
I can't fill in all the details, but i'm gonna try:
As far as i know the linetunnel is charset-mode only.
Wobbler and Easter-Egg operate on a zoom4-mode. Its basically the same screenmode as in the 2nd part of Haziasan: Its zoom4 in character-mode with a special charset to form a 160x100 monochrome-screen. You set 8 pixels (a 4x2 rectangle) with a single STA. Haziasan used the color-attributes (40x50) to colorize the pixels itself, Wobbler and Easter-Egg use the color-attributes to form a backdrop-picture. Mind the rather big textures!
The psychedelic bars have a similar display-code as 1k-Plasma or my Plasma from 8SOB. Its FF06 to prevent/skip badlines and FF1A/1B/1F to pick a row from the texture plus FF15/16 to add colors. It uses a different texture though and adds that rollo-text. Brainwash used a similar technique but with a rather unstable timing and no color-changes.
The Arte/Sanity-Lookalike pokes FF06 to prevent badlines aswell and does FF12/1A/1B/1F to pick rows from multiple texture-bitmaps. Additionally it does FF07 for the bends and FF15/FF16 for the colors.
The Voxel-Landscape is Zoom4 too. Its got quite a huge height-map i think.
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Posted By
Murphy
on 2011-04-27
14:09:57
| Re: New demo
A small correction. The landscape working on 40x50 hires bitmap mode. FLI used for color changes because the first color used for the landscape and the second used for the black grid and the text. It's first time looks to 80x50, good optical trick. The 160x100 monochrome mode is good trick too.
My biggest mistake is the circle tunnel, actually i don't understand how that work. :)
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Posted By
edhellon
on 2011-04-27
14:31:17
| Re: New demo
Murphy, Degauss: don't you get the leftmost 3 char FLI-bug on plus/4? I seem to remember that you get it at least when using "normal" i.e. every line / every 2nd line FLI mode.
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Posted By
Murphy
on 2011-04-27
15:11:01
| Re: New demo
The classical plus/4 specific FLI problem is the 2 rasterline long color DMA, so only the double line FLI usable correctly. I don't remember wrong colors on the first characters type errors, like C64.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2011-04-27
16:28:40
| Re: New demo
@Murphy: Almost. The voxel is 40x50, but in character-mode. Benefit: You can set a pixel with a single STA - compared to that ugly ORing you need to do on 80x50.
Maybe this is just a misunderstanding: I referred to "zoom4" everytime we used bubis' slick timer-irq-based-code to double the amount of DMA-cycles...
@edhellon:
Yep, no FLI-bugs But if i remember correctly you can freely decide what DMA-cycle you want to trigger - either color- or character-data. Never tried to mix these but for example Bubis' standard trick to gain a few more cycles in Zoom4 is to refresh the color-data only every eight lines while still refreshing luminance-data every four lines. Results look a bit washed out but still correct since luminance is more important.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-27
16:45:40
| Re: New demo
I still manage very badly the two DMA lines: I don't remember where they begin to give troubles, I never remind which is the colour one and which's the matrix one, I didn't get out with a code of my own for exact rasterlines managing and all I'm able to achieve is something similar to trial-and-error stuff every time
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2011-04-27
18:11:53
 | Re: New demo
YESSSSSSSSS, fantastic stuff.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2011-05-01
15:45:56
| Re: New demo
ah, just received that link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJUJBa0Ups8
live-footage
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-05-01
16:01:30
| Re: New demo
Yay! Eeeeh live is another planet in sensations
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2011-05-02
15:21:33
 | Re: New demo
again and again.. bkn'n'tek hits the fame!
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Posted By
Krill
on 2011-07-27
01:50:37
| Loader
IstvanV: Thanks for pointing out the 1551 as drive 9 issue, it went straight to my to-do list.
It's merely a detection problem: As Ninja said, the loader currently only works with 1 drive on the serial bus. The install routine scans for available drives and returns an error if more than 1 drive is present on the serial bus, not installing the loader in any drive. However, the check is buggy and causes the install routine to bail out on a 1551 present next to the 1541.
I'm still working on completing the Plus/4 port, but the loader has been working with the most frequently used functionality for quite a while now, as this demo proves.
I can send the current sources to anybody asking, but i will officially release them as soon as the Plus/4 port offers the same functionality as the original C-64 port. This will be "in the near future".
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-07-27
03:25:00
| Re: New demo
Those are good news, I hope I will be able enough to use Krill's IRQ loader.
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Posted By
Krill
on 2011-07-27
07:43:53
| Re: Loader
Luca: No worries, i designed it to be easy to use. However, setting up the build environment is not trivial, but it works on Win32/64, Linux, and Mac OS X. I will set up a web-based build service to produce ready-made binary files on my server "some" day.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2012-01-04
08:59:12
| Re: New demo
Hi Mate!
It says it would've ranked higher if just the music wasn't sooo bad.. oh my However i think you missed adding the music to your hvtc.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-04
14:10:28
| Re: New demo
Yes, I'm not sure how to clean the player+data file to have a clean data file only too. I've seen it should be INIT $122A PLAY1 $12A5 PLAY2 $13DA...do you have a ready clean one there with you?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-04
15:57:13
| Re: New demo
Please I would have infos about the TED song in CSM's crack intro of Ufovadasz: is an original one, or has been ripped from some hungarian games?
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