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Back to forum Reply to this topic Go to last reply Posted By Paulk on 2008-03-17 22:57:19  New C16 Plus 4 Website Ok, nothing new here as its still a bit raw, only finished uploading it all today. Its taken me 2 months to get this far. I have used the screen shots from this site, hope thats ok. I will do my own as time goes on, just wanted to get it up and running. The site has been done with frontpage so I don't know how it will look on your browser if you are using anything different from Internet Explorer Posted By Paulk on 2008-03-17 23:01:42  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website It might help if I add the link. http://www.commodore-plus4.co.uk/ Posted By Luca on 2008-03-18 04:06:33  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Jeez, you reused all the games'pics I patiently added in years! Apropos, offtopic, do you all know that all the entries have their own pic since months, thanks to me? Hey I want my pat on the back for this, I deserve it! Posted By Paulk on 2008-03-18 05:09:41  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website LOL. Credit where its due Luca, the pre-made shots helped me out a lot.. As mentioned I will be added my own. Its just life is so busy at the moment - family commitments etc and I just try to do bits here and there. Posted By MIK on 2008-03-20 11:24:54  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Paulk, Help your self. Good to see a fan site, this one started out the same many years ago. What you don't know... Luca has his Plus/4 so far up your own ar5e that he thinks he's the Messiah of everything Plus4. When I started up little did I know that Luca was going to get upset, be one annoying mother, most ignorant and selfish all at the same time. I mean this guy was putting a face on Italy because I had never known any one from there until Luca started being a right funny sod about everything I was doing!! Like your self it was a fan site. I never had plans to go BIG, the last thing on my mind. Just I wanted to give something back as at the time there was very little support on the web for C16 & Plus/4. Later Csabo joined emucamp who at the time was working on a data base version of all things Plus4. One day both our sites became one thanks to the handy work of Csabo in creating what you see now! Many years have passed since this data base first started, but its been getting bigger, bigger and bigger all the time. Welcome to Plus4 World! I will admit to losing intrest some years ago, Luca was one of the reasons.... Having said that Csabo is the one chap that should have the pat on the back because if it wasn't for his hard work building this data base to log anything and everything as it has done for years now then believe me, this site would of shut shop years ago if it wasn't for him!! As for Luca he doesn't think twice that I could erase all the images he's swapped with mine, but hey the man likes all the glory, so let him have it I say!! lmfao. Sorry if this all sounds crazy, just letting off some steam. Posted By Luca on 2008-03-24 07:16:32  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website ... I really had no words once I read Lando's post. Particularly, my mind went back in time when my eyes met any single "heavy" term about me. When I read I feel like the +4 God (whatever does he really mean in the real world), I remembered my pioneer effort in completing the ex-DS archive, now simply rulez.org. When I read I was going upset, I remembered all the entries (thousands! Csabo is the main witness about that!) I put in, in order to actively join the hard work to complete the database. When I read I'm a spaghetti-mandolino-pasta's annoying mother, I remembered all the news and features and little bonuses I'm continuing to add since months! When I read I'm the reason of someone's loosing of interest, I remember all the care about coopdemos, online compos (managed or not to start), contacts, demo making, emulators'testing and so on. By myself, I remembered several other evidences of care about people. Reading again my answer to Paulk in this post, I can spot out nothing else but blinking emoticons, in the funny spirit of this forum. Moreover, all the ppl here know I quenched all the (very few!) starting flames somebody started here. Now, an incredible secret feeling about me from the original owner of this site outcrops from the darkest corner of his soul. The same bud I appreciated so much, thanked and beckon'd joyfully at every sign of comeback. Believe me, I really didn't suspect I did sooooo bad in the past, and Lando: I sincerely beg your pardon for every fault I might have done. I really ddin't suspect, still reading your words with a petrified bewildered mask covering my shitty pizzaeater's face. Csabo: if you have a backup of the images I'd overwritten in the past, please restore'em all, and feel free to delete anything I may have added brutally. Of course, I'm forced by this event to immediately stop managing this site, an irrevocable act. Of course, try putting yourself in my shoes now! Posted By Paulk on 2008-03-24 07:53:48  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Whoa..All I wanted to do was share my site here with other C16 - Plus 4 fans and I seem to have opened a can of worms. Posted By Gaia on 2008-03-24 08:24:21  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Ah, c'mon chaps, grow up, don't be such primadonnas. Posted By Degauss on 2008-03-24 11:49:15  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website things like this seem to happen every couple of months. it starts off from nothing, leads to nowhere and at the end of the argument at least two people always say: "what an insult, i'll never come back here again..." @lando: i joined this site after your most active times so i don't know you too much. but i think your posting was *quite* offensive. this is how you solve conflicts? you wait for years to let off the steam all at once? if you think somebody hijacked your site, shut it down... @luca: in your shows it might feel different but in the end you got flamed by a single person, not by a big crowd. so this is no big event either. Posted By Lavina on 2008-03-25 09:25:26  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Hm, I don't really understand the meaning of this debate, but let me say something. First, plus/4 scene is not really about glory. If one thinks it's about glory, then he was in coma for the past 16-18 years. Second, I have been a plus/4 fan since the beginning ( Legicsata LOL). If I would like to recall who to thank a lot for the continuity of the scene, first names I'd mention would be Csabo, Lando, Luca, Mike, Gaia. (Great coder brains of today, please forgive me for not mentioning you all now for your great demos and let the ethernal spirit of the black machine bless your synapses) All of these guys (except Luca) just understood the word of the new times and created an environment for us to use in this new era. A new living space, if you will, in the world of PC + Internet for the Plus/4. Without this, there would be no Plussy life at all now. My own small contribution for the survival of the scene was the idea of the Szeged party with a small compo event, that resulted in some small but really important releases. Thinking back now I think it was really important. And finally, what about Luca? Luca is the most entertaining lamer I have ever known. Please do not misunderstand me. Lamer in the scene is not a negative word. Lamer is consumer. Consumer generates demand. Demand generates Supply (new stuff!!!) (well, the opposite is also true in our consumer society, but let's stick to our scene) Lamers we called back in the golden era were users who like to watch new demos and play new games and soon they try coding themselves. They stop being lamers when they first put out some decent stuff. (Hey, I also started it like this, maybe with the small diference that I don't really have a decent output, yet. ) So, I felt a bit sorry when we lost Luca as our funny lamer not long ago. But I would definietly feel very sorry now, if we would loose Luca as an editor of this site (I know how much he has worked on the database), or any other of his activities. So, Luca, if you insist on this decision of yours, I'll delete all my current projects and no more peeping into my screenshots. Posted By SVS on 2008-03-25 09:39:27  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Hmmm... I'm surprised, very surprised of what somebody is saying about Luca; then just a question: how many of us, have passed *whole* nights to work FOR the scene? No further word. Posted By Degauss on 2008-03-25 10:50:51  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website @Lavina: To find an ironic and positive meaning for the attribute "lamer" is an interesting approach I also second your opinion about what this +4-thing is all about and what it is not: Everybody has a different thing that keeps him interested in +4. Coders, Graphicians, Collectors, Editors, etc... To keep a small scene like the +4-scene alive you have to contribute in some way. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you do something constructive. You don't gain any glory for all this, but you are helping others and yourself keeping your hobby alive. However, there are a couple of things you shouldn't do: - nothing (if you do nothing, you help the +4-scene falling apart) - something destructive like unnecessary flame-wars (you help people getting pissed) Within this debate, a lot of questions come to my mind which i think everbody can ask himself: - Did i contribute or was i destructive? - Can i stand the fact that others are doing more/better than i do? - Do i really think that its not about glory, or do i think i'm a victim because somebody stole my glory? Posted By Lavina on 2008-03-25 11:27:40  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website My answers - Did i contribute or was i destructive? I think I really contributed to the scene. Not much nowadays, thogh, but I also like to be a lamer. I re-lamerized myself in recent years and it's good. Being passive demo-download-and-watcher does not equal doing nothing. Demand is important I think. - Can i stand the fact that others are doing more/better than i do? I would be really-really sad if others would not do better than me. - Do i really think that its not about glory, or do i think i'm a victim because somebody stole my glory? For me scene is not about glory. Actually, I never was such a big coder that I would have had a glory to steal from me. Well, maybe adventures. Maybe evberybody should answer these questions. One more thing. I was chatting with Luca, and I want to clarify one thing. By him being entertaining I do not mean hilarious. For me Luca was the ideal childish scener, always hungry for new releases, new stuff for our beloved machine. I just love this attitude, because this reminds me to my own attitude from arund the early 1990-s. And it's great. Anybody who makes jokes about it or offends him because of this enthusiasm does not worth a penny in my eyes. Flaming is very rare in retro. Oh the good old days, Korak, where art thou? Posted By Chronos on 2008-03-26 17:33:38  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website - Did i contribute or was i destructive? i hope i contribute but paprita was a destructive stuff - Can i stand the fact that others are doing more/better than i do? yep, it gives me motivation.. but the past 10 years i've regressed.. i almost lost my coding skills (but it wasn't much) - Do i really think that its not about glory, or do i think i'm a victim because somebody stole my glory? the internet is about 15 minutes of glory you build a database and 10 other guy stole it after it finished thats life.. if you don't have ideas google it.. thats life nobody cares nothin' bigtime .. i don't care glory, but in the early 90's i fell pride when i see my name in the mags forget about that - i living for this little scene! Luca is a part of it, lavina is a part of it, Degauss is a part of it.. everybody is a part of it! we love the little scene flames, our favourite target was Lacoste everytime (but in real life i really like him) and now the 2 teams merged we searching for a new target Posted By Lavina on 2008-03-26 18:13:40  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website well I'd surely give one of my legs if Korak would return to the scene. It was sooo cool to hate him it was also a part of the scene feeling, wasn't it? Posted By Lavina on 2008-03-26 18:20:39  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website ok, let it be the glory. well, if you are glorious for a release of yours in the eyes of our twenty-something sceners, that's great. This does not motivate me. My motivation has two sides. First and most important I like to experiment, what else can i code. Second, I'd like to entertain the scene 'cause it also entertains me. Peace. Posted By Degauss on 2008-03-26 22:59:03  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Lavina picked the right word: peace... Posted By Jakec on 2008-03-27 04:05:36  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website I'm the 159 visitor on the pages!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH , This is GREAT!!! Posted By Csio on 2008-03-27 06:44:33  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website If we are here already, you are stupid Laco! I step out of the team. Posted By MIK on 2008-03-29 07:31:26  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Luca, I respect all that is done here and would never dream of touching anything!!! Joke or not and I know you from old that it would not hurt to have a little respect for what other people may do such as making fans sites about the Plus4. This site started out as one. c16.de infact used near on everthing this site had done at one time because I posted the whole thing to them in an effort to help get the web support growing stronger. C16.de later went on to bigger and better things. Every little helps. Now... if you ever got anything out of what C16.de did then you scored!! Like you did the day I hunted down Room 10. Sure the net is getting older, alot of things have been done but there is always hope for something else new to show up... Mike D had the right idea. Help, share and be supportive. Paulk didnt come here to hear you going on about what you've done... how much you do deserve a pat on the back, even if Csabo deserves an even bigger one. Just a little respect doesn't go a miss now and then!! Have a word with Csabo or Gaia if you have no real understanding of what I'm trying to say. Maybe they can put it acoss a whole lot better... I've let the steam off. end of. In truth I have no issue with what you do, what any of you do because I'm the one not doing anthing thing. This site belongs to the scene and its up to you guys to do what ever you want for the best intrest of the scene. Even if changing my very old pictures means it makes it look fresh, more how you would like it to look, more of how you want it to look. I'm good!!! It is not my site anymore. Csabo reworked the site for the good of everyone and why you are now here helping. Sure in my last post I was having a little fit, but no harm towards the site was ever ment and never will be. Giai knows this, Csabo also knows this. I've said what I wanted to say and now like I do, I'm gona crawl back into my hole in the ground. Posted By Luca on 2008-03-29 10:18:14  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website [...written before Lando's last post] Ok, some days passed, and now I feel I'm calm enough to write something, though this post will cover 30% of all the babbling I could spit out in order to easily rebut all the crap written till now. Lando's steaming is something totally unexpected, unexplainable, indefensible, coarse. At first sight, I blamed myself because of my bad Messiah-ish attitudes, oooh I'd been so much unfair, oooh it's my fault. Now I'm able to see the truth: "oooh I'm guilty" what the heck? It's a mere moaning likely story! The truth is that no one has the power to become someone else's pretext to stop hobbies and passions, avoiding to take it upon himself! Lando, for the nth time: I'm absolutely bewildered about your "steaming", I was so proud you've appreciated, for example, my addon about ACE's story...and now this crap. I didn't suspect all this resentfulness into you, I invite you to restore anything you think I changed. This site exists, as you pointed out, because of the cooperation between you and Csabo. Nonetheless, this doesn't contravene the option to consider growing up, moderate your words, bevel your opinions and/or recover your mental health. And now, Lavina. Lavina, first of all, sorry for my lacking of answers both here and on ICQ, this thread has been a very sad surprise, under several aspects, and I simply pressed the CANCEL icon for any message, from you and from many others, simply because I got astonished for days. I really appreciated your attempt to take peace into this pile of shit, but I guess you didn't used the best words to succeed in that, as other guys pointed out too. Moreover, the vision of a scene like a distant paradise of youth pulses, where to play your childish acts, might be "one personal view" of the scene, but surely not the most common, in this and other scenes. But I'll reprise this argument at the end. The rest I'm gonna tell to you is only a mere offtopic remarks. The so-called "Plus/4 PC era" (the Messiah has to come back, sorry!) has been started by me, when I decided (1994/95) to enrich the Delta System stuff repository on rulez.org in order to upgrade it to a real Plus/4 archive, with great help from TLC, Lion and SJP, building up my X1541 cable (which miraculously I used till now on XP!). After an year or so, in 1996, I released On The Net docs, coz'the archive was big enough, if my memory hasn't gone totally off. For a lamer it would mean a good thing, no? Moreover, I'm the same lamer whom you asked for a SID music (and I did it with the horrible Future Composer on Plus/4) for your...erm...vapourware strategic game "Khaios" It seems I'm the busiest lamer ever. What does it mean? Maybe does it mean I was the weirdo clown in 4ever03 party? Now I can understand a certain "kidding aura" around me at Szeged's... Lavina, please forgive me for my silence and keep up your great work, it has been a hard blow to me, try to understand how I felt. Final part: changes happen. Combining both Lando's and Lavina's, something useful popped out. First of all, my deep passion in this...mmm hobby? Dunno how to call it... My deep passion in this, which can be calculated in wasted hours on maaaaaany fronts, let the other sceners to have a wrong picture of me: a jollyhearted fanatic with so much free time to spend into. That's absolutely wrong, and the right vision is this: life steals time to me too, but I used to sacrifice much more time I should be able to spend, stealing it even from sleeping, when needed. Yeah, that's really childish now, sounds like "my passion is bigger than yours", but please appreciate the fact that it could surprisingly be true. At the moment, I'm scene-overloaded: rulez.org is continuously refreshed, +4world has been raised to the max with an impressive effort (who wrotes all the news, entries, who does the pictures, who corrects "und" to "and" for the nth damn time? ), coding has been started in a higher level (finally!), music and graphics, diskmag editing, other sites'mainatining, XeO3 project, contacts with the whole scene and with other scenes, pouet's threatenings and addons, and much much MUCH more! It's big fun...but it's BIG! You do it all, you're proud, and one day a guy comes to tell you that you claimed to be the Plus/4 Messiah, bah! Hence, maybe I need a substitution in +4World's site maintaining. Did it write "maybe"? No, I meant: FOR SURE, hell!! Another one: a pizzaeating fanatic scene clown may be acceptable, but it dopes the scene. After some flops into motivating the scene (Jazzmacx Plus/4, limiTED2 suggested, votes here and for a diskmag), after taking in count the incredible efforts spent in order to motivate ppl when organizing EVERYTHING (Lacoste's 2nd dvd, all the coopdemos...), I realized that: time has comes when the scene must save by himself. No more stupid mandolino's Messiah which suggest organize scream turn left turn right pray menace contact recontact recontact again and so on. If the scene will die, it will die, and the Plus/4 will be used rarely in very few wild compos as an exotic platform. Moreover, I'm feeling like a fish out of the ball now, whatever the others told me about moving on and leave the shit behind my shoulders; right now, I'm slowly forcing myself to add news and stuff and new members and new groups and and and. All the messages about "moving on", though friendly and pretty nice, unfortunately have the only effect to upset me more. I would repeat it: Lando used heavy words against me, and Lavina has accidentally and indirectly underlined some real crack at the contact surface between me and """the scene""". What does mean? It means we better need another +4world site maintainer because I drop, alternatively it would be kewl to have a co-maintainer in order to share the moanings about deleted pictures or other farts at 50% and decide with two heads about the site in general step by step. Although the little sense of nausea, I'll slowly continue to maintain the site till we would find an useful solution, also because I know Csabo is pretty busy these weeks and can't be annoyed by all this crap. Sincere greetings to Csabo Lando Lavina Degauss Csio Chronos and all the others, absolutely no grudge by me, because after few days I finally understood that all this has happened because of the bad scene's tradeoff, and not because of the single person's speech. The feeble scene's equilibrium finally has broken. [...written after Lando's last post] Oh my! The smilies! The smilies! Paulk easily caught the sense of my post, and you're still here puking malicious thoughts out? Yeah, of course, ask Csabo to explain shit like "Luca was going to get upset, be one annoying mother, most ignorant and selfish all at the same time", probably I misunderstood that, 'coz you would say "gimme that slice of choccolate cake, please" Moreover, an ignorant Messiah sounds like an oxymoron. Ok, we only have to wait for some decisions in order to see who's next which will deserve another distinct degree of pat on the back (as an info, I abitually use one level only, talking about pats on the back). Posted By Lavina on 2008-03-29 14:28:35  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Luca, I never called you clown or anything similar anywhere. I told you I did not even understand your statements about the Szeged party, maybe I missed something. I was just trying to defend you, maybe I did not express myself the best way. The fact that you got so upset about me using the word lamer (explaining how I mean it) prooves that you are childish. I did not use these expressions in a negative way, but maybe the truth hurts and it is not good to face it. For me to steal time from my family and carreer for 8bit retroprogramming is CHILDISH. But all this does not count any more. Damage done, I have absolutely no interest left in the scene any more. Guess I just grew up. Well, maybe it's better this way. So long, ... and thanks for all the fish. Posted By Chronos on 2008-03-29 14:42:34  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website hey dude, if you need some help (site maintaining, news posting) here i am! The scene = this site novadays. If emucamp don't produce news and new things the scene will die.. We're all childish! ..and thats a good thing! Posted By Degauss on 2008-03-29 15:01:08  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website I'm a bit proud of beeing so successfully reluctant to grow up. If i wasn't childish, i couldn't do any 8-bit stuff. I think there is no such thing like a "mature scener". So Chronos, you're absolutely right Concerning this argument: To be honest i think its focal point is getting more cloudy every further post. I can understand luca in way that if something stops beeing fun, you need to take a break. I just want to say to everybody (including luca) that all this is just about a little computer that was already dead when it hit the market, so don't take all this too serious (Though its a funny bit that me - a german - of all people says a thing like that ) Posted By Litwr on 2008-04-07 02:05:37  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Is it childish to be useful for other ppl? I don't think so. The *normal* adult's choice is to be useful only for those ppl who can pay by respect, time, money, etc. in exchange... Is this *normal* choice 100% right?... Posted By Plus4/Team on 2008-04-07 14:36:43  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website This is Great Site! Very Cool! Posted By PaulK on 2008-04-19 13:02:26  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website I have started to add a few items for sale on here, not sure on the prices though. I will add as time goes on as I have quite a lot of spares. I also have a couple of spare 2nd hand Ted chips(working) which I will add over the next week. Posted By DJ on 2008-04-28 09:49:20  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website He has posted a Ted chip on his Ebay site. Be interesting to see if that sells as they are gold dust. Posted By Paulk on 2008-05-09 14:12:58  Re: New C16 Plus 4 Website Surprisingly enough it didn't sell, wasn't much interest either, so it will go back away for another day. Back to top Reply to this topic Copyright © Plus/4 World Team, 2001-2024