| Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-06
09:38:27
 |  Zeropage's addresses emulation
In the last days, I had my troubles with YAPE 0.74: the best +4 emulator which I love doesn't consider several zp addresses'behaviours (which VICE does consider). The result is: you check your stuff on the real iron, and it won't match with the emulated one.
For example, $91 behaviour is perfectly emulated, $90 is neglected...
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-06-06
15:09:05
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Could you elaborate? Address $90 is the ST status variable and it won't be set if you're loading PRG's from the menu for example. What is the exact symptom?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-06
16:17:32
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Eh I would, believe me. I can only tell the story as is.
That's happened when I watched my stuff on the real iron: it was perfect on YAPE, but my 3x3 chars text displayer didn't work on the real machine. "Weird", I thought. I tried on VICE and it reproduced the same bug as on real iron.
The reason was this: though I didn't use rom calls and I initialized zeropages loading zeroes from $02 to $FF, the zeropage address'behaviour I used for the 3x3 chars'gfx displayer, changed at a certain point, dunno why. It was $B4, and I has been forced to change it, because whatever I load into it, the result was #$D3 both on real iron and VICE.
The same happened using $90 and $91, used to display 2x2 chars: YAPE has shown to me only ONE bad gfx, where VICE has shown me BOTH, puking random gfx instead of keeping their zero values until I decide to display something (increasing that zero value).
My idea is that zeropages addresses mutually affect themselves: changing a certain address will affect other zp locations. That way, I can find a reason why, i.e., $B4 began to act weird...
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2007-06-07
00:55:22
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Luca, can you give link to your stuff?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-07
02:55:38
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Litwr: eh guess not yet 
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-06-07
16:26:22
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
In case you're using the IEC mode, it is using 1541 emulation in VICE and 1551 in Yape, that could be a problem...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-07
18:09:05
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Just checked as first option, nothing changed.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-08
03:11:42
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Arrgh! Last night I had a similar trouble with $94 too, the one labeled C3PO, but maybe I used a turboloader and this changed something, dunno. Neither VICE nor YAPE had shown me something wrong, whereas the real machine yes.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2007-06-08
09:28:53
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
If the behavior is so inconsistent, in my opinion that could point to a coding bug, and not necessarily an emulation related problem.
You already mentioned you can't yet put up the code. However, in general, whenever bugs are talked about, seeing the bug and being able to reproduce it is an absolute must.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-08
09:43:08
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Didn't understand: ok for example my stuff is bugged, and looks XXX on YAPE and YYY (<>XXX) on the real iron. I guess the problem doesn't change. Especially when VICE runs it exactly like on the real machine, and YAPE doesn't.
You will have my source very soon (if I'm able to compose a decent 2x TED tune* in less than one week ;) ), but you have to take out fleas from a 60K code!
* 2x TED tune, because my first experience with TLC's crosseditor has been the tune I composed for the Mermaid's part in 8 shades of black, and TLC first did his congrats for the music, then kicked me several times talking of mediocre composing, instrumenting, implementing of his editor (wow, and I was the first one who used it, who wanna be the lucky second?  ), and last but not least, I dare to limit it at single speed! He killed in a single text row all my pride in composing on TED with several advanced features, like single voice echo, special fx and several percussions.
In order to shield me against a second attack, I'll compose it 2x then
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-06-10
12:58:23
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Err... I'm wondering why should I be reading this comment on a public forum right now (instead of a personal mail and about a year ago, respectively). I could have cleared these doubts of yours with much less hassle (which could, possibly, also spare you some loss of hair in case it hit you).
Well, this is complicated. I should go motive by motive.
First of all, you don't really need my comments. What you're doing is about you. What I say of what you're doing or who you "are" (or what anyone's doing or what anyone or anything "is" ), is generally about me, not you.
...And anyway, who am _I_ so that I could kill _your_ pride in composing on TED whatsoever?...
To more elaborate on what I actually wrote... As I might have mentioned, my personal taste of music doesn't generally match yours. I do like some of your tunes, but usually I prefer other sort of music. This makes me a suboptimal reference for you as to whether your tunes are "good" or "bad". In fact, you shouldn't take it seriously whether I do or don't like some particular tune of yours; say, do you like the tunes of Chris Hülsbeck, Jeroen Tel, Matt Gray, PVCF, Cane, Jeff, Eclipse, and the others (from Atari ST) like Scavenger, Tao, Mad Max, Dark Angel?... Not neccessarily. Yet you (I hope) don't typically think that they had better have stopped (or better have not started at all) composing, or their tunes simply sucked or similar things. But you probably also won't feel that their music is just "yours".
Speaking of myself -- I have a "2-bit" choice at happens like this one... or better said, 2x2 directions. I have an option of being honest, straight, or I may as well lie to myself and others. Second, I may act and speak so that I'm helping people to become what they "are" (ie. realise what they're really capable of doing), and I may as well choose to act and speak so that I'm obstructing people from above. The first one is easier. You may expect that I say what I think. This is as much a warning as a promise... if someone's going to expect false feedback, of any kind, I'm a bad candidate. As for the second question... there, I know the path, but I know I'm simply not always up to it. Sometimes I am. (...As a sidenote: being false means that one ultimately looses his option to choose in the second question; it's impossible to be of any help for people to "improve" (ie. do what they're capable of doing anyway) by lying to them). You may or may not want to live with that. I'm not sure that I told what I thought in an absolutely positive way; but otherwise, what I said matched my perception.
Anyway, you might probably not believe (and this part might not have went through well) but I really liked that you could come along and compose in my player (regardless to whether I actually liked or didn't like the tune that you composed... actually, it was not my kind, that is). I could have thought of different arrangement in particular, but as I understand now, the overall arrangement was also fully intended to be like that, and from that on, that's a matter of taste, rather than a technical question. Regarding that "2x" comment: I encourage you to compose using just as sort of technical details as you want; in fact, players and different technical hacks are just tools; they're unimportant beyond that fact. I don't promise that I'd personally like a particular tune that you compose, but nobody would be ready to promise anything like that to anyone as I guess anyway. You can count on a couple of things; if you ask me whether I like a tune or not, I'll tell you my opinion. If you ask me technical questions, I'll do my best to answer them. If you ask me whether I do respect you composing tunes, the answer is ultimately yes. If you ask me whether I liked that you could get my player to work and use it for composing your tunes, yes, I did (and do).
I hope there wasn't anything more to give an answer to.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-06-10
18:16:14
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
My addon would be considered:
- funny
- ironical
- auto-ironical
- milestone-historical
- not doubtful/needing not any particular explication about the reign of democracy in musical tastes (dunno why you got this wrong feeling about)
At the time when I got your kind comment in pvt I chitchatted with other sceners and spreaded the words inside all the other discussions regarding 8 shades of black (it had been just released), and we laughed alot about that. We had found very hilarious (in its own shape, not in the object itself, you were right and I'm with you) the comparision with Csabo's tunes in the same trackmo. Since that time, we swapped several sounds, codes, whatever, and when the author asked about our opinion, the first sarcastic answer is "not like Csabo's but hey it's my opinion, and my opinion is not yours, and yours is not Bush's opinion, and Bush's opinion is not Superman's, and... (iterates to infinite with different famous ppl)".
I appreciate your tough rough direct killing hitting stoning freezing honesty, so ready to be restated although all the smilie emoticons I put everywhere
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2007-06-11
02:03:57
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Guessing in the fog: Have you double-checked if there is an interrupt interfering somehow from somewhere? Such things may cause different results on different emulators (depending on when the faulty interrupt is generated).
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-06-11
21:38:57
| Re: Zeropage's addresses emulation
Hey Luca!,
Sarcasm is O.K. as long as someone's really well into some particular language, so that he feels the language's nuances required for this kind of deal... unless understanding each other is an unimportant factor of the communication. Honestly, I still don't fully understand what you really meant by your comments -- I mean it, I don't think that I fully understood what you wrote right on the pure level of facts and happens. But you'd probably want to tell them to me, with no attempted sarcasm in case you really want me to know them.
I still don't know why the heck you couldn't have replied to me back then and tell me something like, hey, what you wrote _did_ hurt me, goddammit, that's been one of my very best tunes ever. Or hey, I laughed my ass off by your comment. I'm no god, nor a fairy of some kind so that I could know people's secrets.
You're in a "better" position, by means I don't even remember what I wrote to you back then. What I seem to remember that, from one side, I was absolutely happy about you getting the stuff to work (and also about you getting down to compose for TED, in the first place). From the other hand, that particular tune's arrangement sounded rather flat to me. It certainly wasn't my tune. So at the time of replying to you, I was in a clash.
As to ridiculing my comment -- hell, for a moment or two (or three) I felt some serious issues regarding personal respect. From the other hand -- cynically speaking, I wouldn't have thought, that after so many years of absence, I myself am still worth this level of attention from a couple of otherwise active sceners. ...Not bad.
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