| Posted By
MMS
on 2005-10-17
15:32:00
 |  Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
Hi,
I searched in the Forum, but could not find a topic on this issue (in fact I was a little surprised).
Recently I found out, that the Commodore ONE (developed and created by an American girl) has such new Cores( BIOS/Firmware, as you like), which (certainly with the same hardware) can emulate not only the C64 (as started some years ago), but now VIC20, Turbo CPC (originally built with Z80!), and Amstrad CPC6128 can be emulated via new codes.
See yourself:
http://c64upgra.de/c-one/
On the page "About" they even mention the Plus/4 as a possible alternative.
I am also sure, that Plus/4 could be also possible (just the question of energy). Do you think, that enough documentation are provided, or somebody already working on it?
How complicated it could be to change the available C64 basis to Plus/4, or starting from the roots is easier (knowing there are several people converted really complex C64 games here).
In fact I have an old dream to create an Amiga-like integrated computer (PC) with such basis it can be used as a PC (not floppy, but DVD-writer inside, and 1 AGP slot for interchangable videocard is horzontal position, built-in C=Serial port), at start-up you could select, if you want to use it as a PC, or as emulated machine from the beginning (Plus/4, Amiga, C64, Spectrum). But this plan was based on Micro-ATX board with an AGP riser.
With Commodore One a specific computer could be created can be used only as 8-bit replica, but more flexible, and can use ALL those hardwares Plus/4 just still talking (HDD, SD memory card, big memory), but hardly available as a hardware just now, mainly emulated via normal PCs. C=ONE Graphic card is capable of high resolution with several colors, and SID can emulate the TED sounds (just square and white noise signals emulated then, forget ADSR  ) )
What is your view: do you think there would be enough people would buy such a set? It is a rather expensive package, ~270€uro, but SuperCPU for C64 also costs alone 200USD.
In fact a full, preloaded package with a nice, fitting housing and PS/2 keyboard (certainly BLACK/DarkGrey), and preinstalled system (Geos, Games, demos) would create a higher demand.
Opinions?
Bye: MMS
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2005-10-19
22:15:37
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
I tried to ring Gaia about this, to see how possible it would be, but he seems to be sound asleep right now. Evidently it's the middle of the night at his location.
If it can be done, Gaia and Csabo would be the ones to know.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2005-10-20
02:15:29
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
The CPUs & most devices (c1541, printers,...) are the same. TED graphics has to be emulated by algorithm significantly other than VIC graphics. C1551 is emulated easier than serial bus c1541.
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Posted By
TLC
on 2005-10-20
06:47:32
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
It would. Probably much simpler than emulating the C64 or the CPC.
"Someone" just would have to create the needed "programs" for the FPGAs... Anyone with high Lattice FPGA knowledge here?...
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2005-10-20
07:16:39
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
Well, you maybe? Or the other candidate could be Bionic.
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Posted By
TLC
on 2005-10-20
08:42:39
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
Gaia: nope, I'm not into FPGA programming at all. 
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2005-10-20
09:01:19
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
I see. That's a real bummer Anyway, why do you think programming the plus/4 would be easier than the C64? I am also not into FPGA programming, but I assume you were referring to the sprite logics. Is it so much more difficult to program it in that - possibly low level - language? How about the plus/4's writable inner counters. How would that be implemented in such environment?
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Posted By
TLC
on 2005-10-20
10:12:30
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
I was referring to most things... The Plus/4 is much simpler than the C64 in any respects... For the C64, you have to emulate the CPU, the VIC, the CIAs, the SID (afaik there is something like a SID core in the C=1, not just sockets for real SIDs) For the Plus/4, each components are simpler this or that way... ...Things that could go complicated are rather the little details of the emulation but not the overall size of the core or whatever... You can drop the extra logic of the CIAs, the weird memory mapping, the sprite-logic of the VIC, the semi-digital complications of the SID... in turn, you have to implement the single and double clock logic, the colors (not a hot shot, the VIC has been doing it similarly, just with fixed intensities), the simple counters, the unbelievably crippled sound generator logic, ...and that's all. ...Well, implementing all small details of the TED video logic might be hard, but I don't see many more real obstacles. ...Ah, beyond the fact that someone must actually do it, of course.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2005-10-20
15:57:15
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
There is a small training material about FPGA programming, just for start  )
Yeah, that's the real problem, somebody should start it..
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Posted By
TLC
on 2005-10-21
04:36:24
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
Oh, I made a small mistake... the C=1 isn't based on tech from Lattice, but Altera.
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Posted By
Bionic
on 2005-10-23
20:36:18
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
It should actually not be that difficutl to convert the existing C64 core to a 80% compatible plus/4 core. That last 20% are what is difficult...
Unfortunately I do not have a C=1 and do not plan to acquire one. I tried to get the c64 to run on my (more powerful) FPGA board, but gave up at some point. I do not think i will start another attempt anytime soon, since I did not bring that board with me to the US.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2005-10-24
05:07:42
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
The complete TED documentation is still absent. I can write only about 95% of it.
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Posted By
Bionic
on 2005-10-26
00:42:01
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
litwr: What do you mean by absent? Actually the TED documentation is online - and it is fairly accurate.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2005-10-26
04:07:44
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
The hardware reference manual for TED is not 100% correct. It also misses some tricky details which is used by some games and demos. For example, it misses the condition of start of reload characters/colors data from RAM to TED. This hole is shown in fact that only 'forever?' and Yape can correctly run Xcellor8 game. I can continue... I think that Gaia only can produce 99% TED documentation.
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Posted By
Bionic
on 2005-10-28
21:27:59
| Re: Commodore One: Plus/4 emulation also possible?
If it is missing information it does not mean it is incorrect. I find it quite astonishing that the TED manual has quite an accurate description of the internal states - my guess would be that back in the days nobody would have assumed that anybody would ever benefit from that information.
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