| Posted By
Bionic
on 2004-02-20
06:57:12
|  Privacy
Well, I want to bring up a topic which should show up on this site sooner or later. I think it is very nice to have such an interactive site with a big database. However, in my opinion the data gathering goes too far in some cases.
For example the users are apparantly not only identified by cookies, but also by their IP. Most people probably do not notice this. However, I have accessed the internet and also this site from 5-10 ISPs and subnets in three different countries during the last two years.
Apparently the database has been constantly updated with new IPs and also entire Subnets.
What is the deal? Yesterday I opened this site from a labcomputer I never used before - what do I see? I am readily identified as Bionic. Not the first time this happens..
I think it should be up to the people whether they want to be identified or not.. a cookie is fine.
Btw.. there is also a page called ../team.php or something like that which is harvested by google. I think it should be added to robots.txt
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Posted By
Crown
on 2004-02-20
07:58:28
| Re: Privacy
I would add to this topic that I don't like that the email address is being displayed on the member info pages. This should be off by default and there should be a member selectable option whether that information is public or not !
I do value my privacy.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2004-02-20
10:26:19
| Re: Privacy
Crown: First of all member detail pages are not indexed by search engines. Second: for everyone, who is not a logged in member, the email addresses will show up as something (at) somewhere (dot) com. *If* you are logged in as a member, if will be shown the regular way. Third: click the edit button on your record and edit your email address right out, but you have already done that.
Bionic: Every single page hit on our site, and most activities are logged. This is nothing unusual. Everyone has a Visitor record - this logs the IP. When you log in as a member, your current IP will be automatically added to your Visitor record.
The only purpose of visitor records is to show the "currently on-line" list, and do be able to send private messages. If someone else visits from the same IP as the one used before, the system may incorrectly display that it is YOU who is online. It's not perfect, but it IS the only way non-members can send and receive private messages.
What I can do for you is disable you from showing up. Let me know if you would like that.
ps. Team is no longer indexed.
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Posted By
Bionic
on 2004-02-20
10:55:01
| Re: Privacy
Csabo: Well, it seems in my case the proxy address was used. It would make sense to disable IP logging for proxies, in many cases you can also get the real IP..
In general I believe it would make more sense just to activate all these tracking and msg features when you are really logged in. You could provide a permanent cookie for people who do not want to log in manually..
I see the point for anonymous msgers, but imo none of them would ever expect a reply..
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2004-02-20
11:00:00
| Re: Privacy
Well, your opinion is just wrong. JamesC is a non-member, and uses the PM system regularly, and most definitely expects a reply.
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Posted By
Bionic
on 2004-02-20
11:05:12
| Re: Privacy
"your opinion is just wrong" wtf ?  This is no way to discuss..
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2004-02-20
11:09:54
| Re: Privacy
Doesn't IMO mean In My Opinion? Well, if your opinion is that none of the anonymous message senders ever expect a reply (and read it carefully, that is what you wrote), then that is plain wrong, I know if for a fact. Do you have a problem with my style or something? What does the "F" stands for "WTF" again? At least I didn't lower myself to use such expressions.
Bah, this discussion is not going anywhere. I should hope that it is clear to you now why the system works as it is. Again, the only change I can make for you is remove your visitor record from showing up in the "who's online" forum list.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2004-02-20
17:04:05
 | Re: Privacy
Csabo: WTF means "what the f**k", but used with a smile means in a nice way, WTF is used alot in the english language without thinking about it, its slang.... IMO is correct.
If anyone isn't happy with their email address being show in any form what so ever on this site then just ask and it will be removed as soon as we can.
I aslo recieve non-member PM's from time to time and yes they also recieve my reply as I get a reply from them...
What ever Csabo has setup he is fine! I've grown to hate spam and this site isn't doing anything wrong. There are much worse sites picking info out of your machine, but here it helps as a tool that is used for features on the site.. No harm done to anyone I dont believe.
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2004-02-20
22:31:36
| Re: Privacy
I would like to say that myself, as probably the only quasi-member of this site (I am here but I don't exist, hehe), am not bothered by IP tracking. It is handy when I am using different computers throughout the day, as I can still come back to Plus4.Emucamp and receive any instant messages.
Csabo does use persistent cookies, that is how I can set the forum to display Who's Online at the top of the forum page, etc. Maybe you have your browser set to delete cookies upon closing the browser window, or you clean your system using a third-party program that is deleting your cookies for this site. When I was a member here, my cookies did not disappear unless I manually removed them. The only major thing about NOT being logged in is that you have to enter your name manually when you post a message, and maybe some download links are for members only.
As far as the disagreement between Csabo and any other users here, maybe that particular discussion should be taken to private email. Last I saw this forum was not intended for throwing flames, and I would hate to see that happen here.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2004-02-21
06:36:18
| Re: Privacy
James I can assure you that there are no downloads for members only. The only stuff thats hidden away from anyone is an incoming folder which I use from time to time. It contains work in progress content such as scans and the like which are waiting to be sorted to be added to the site by who ever gets the chance or time to do so. Csabo normally get on to the job of sorting stuff as soon as he can.
We have never made anything exclusive and never will. Even if it was stuff we were ask to remove then it would be deleted without question and as you know there hasn't been anything we haven't shared with others.
Cheers.
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Posted By
TLC
on 2004-02-22
14:10:15
| Re: Privacy
There's still a little problem with IP logging (as Bionic has pointed out already): when people are behind a http-proxy. Say, I'm logging in from my workplace, where the whole intranet is behind a firewall - then anyone visiting plus4.emucamp.com from the company will identify themself as tlc/coroners (or am I wrong in that? ).
What if two people -- neither members -- visit the site from behind the same firewall, or the same computer (for that matter)?
I'm afraid IP logging is not the solution for this problem. If someone's using the PM system regularly then he should probably get an ID for easy identification I guess.
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2004-02-22
14:37:37
 | Re: Privacy
I do not understand what is this fuzz about privacy, I do not care about my IP or email or phone number or whatsoever.... I just do not understand the concern... What would happen is somebody knows your IP? Are you a hacker or what? Then you SHOULD be able to mask your IP! 
Anyway, the only downside is what TLC maestro mentioned.
Keep cool. Plus4 family is a real small neat family with no blask sheaps and family debates
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Posted By
Mike
on 2004-02-22
15:50:52
| Re: Privacy
I just want to add my $0.02 here...
Since this site is run ( at least partly) by someone based in the UK, and its a database, you'll also fall victem of the UK's Data Protection act, so I would read up on it if I were you.. Any one has thr right (in the UK at least) to deman all information you have stored on or about them. This would include any recorded IP numbers, addresses, phone numbers whatever. It also states that your not allowed to give ANY information out about them without their permision. So, that includes displaying email, address IP etc.
Second, displaying public email addresses is only a pain when someone has a bot lifting them for SPAM, or if some nasty bugger decides to try and hack your machine... lovely IP address there.
These things should be stored as cookies only in my opinion.... not that its worth much
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2004-02-22
17:32:42
| Re: Privacy
c'mon... Nobody will sue anybody here, right guys???????
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Posted By
TMR
on 2004-02-23
09:21:05
 | Re: Privacy
Well, i might but that's more because i'm skint than worrying about my privacy... =-)
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2004-02-23
17:09:25
| Re: Privacy
Well then you can have the two cents that Mike threw in the other day
But since he threw in American currency, how much will it cost you to convert that your local currency?
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Posted By
TMR
on 2004-02-23
19:18:38
| Re: Privacy
Bugger, there goes another get rich quick scheme... anyone want to buy some viagra...? =-)
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2004-02-23
21:23:47
| Re: Some stuff
I have a few things to add to all of this.
Data Protection Act: The only thing the site stores about visitors is IP(s), a hit counter, and last visited page/date/time. No personal stuff whatsoever. The members listed on the site have all gave their consent (and have access to) their personal details. (Plus, as I mentioned, the member detail pages are NEVER indexed, and if the member chooses to enter their email address, it will be converted to the xxx (at) zzz dot com format.) Let it be said that if someone has ANY problems or further privacy concerns, we (admins) are around, and at least Lando is actually a nice guy.
Both the proxy IP and the "real" IP are logged (if available). The proxy is used to identify the user though, intentionally. It happens to me at work too, no matter which computer I use, the proxy IP is the same, so I can see private messages. TLC, I should hope that at your workplace there are no other Plus/4 freaks visiting our site, right?
About JamesC and his cbm264.com: we will continue to respect his copyrights, and we will not, in any way, distribute any of his downloads. I understand his point, and if I had a company and were in his shoes, I would probably expect the same. Asking for those warez is a bannable offense! There's still lots of other free Plus/4 software to go around. Which reminds me, shouldn't we be talking about stuff that actually concerns the good-old Commodore Plus/4?
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2004-02-23
22:41:08
| Re: Privacy
Csabo and Lando please understand that I am not complaining about members/nonmenbers or about download links. I said that *maybe* some download links were for members only, because at one time it was discussed that members would be allowed to download things that non-members would not. That particular line of thinking was abandoned around the time Fantastic Four was posted for download, but since I gave up my membership I cannot look for myself to know before I write stupid stuff like that.
I have since made agreements with Lando for linking between my site and Plus4.Emucamp. I can forward those emails to the other administrators if they would like to see them.
I would like to officially correct my earlier post to instead state "and maybe some vote sheets or direct links to adult software". Hopefully this will be clear enough that no accusations are made and nobody else wants to sue and make TMR share those two cents.
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Posted By
TLC
on 2004-02-25
11:54:42
| Re: Privacy
"TLC, I should hope that at your workplace there are no other Plus/4 freaks visiting our site, right?"
allianz.hu consists of a little more than 4000 desktop pc's, all connecting to the web by the same http proxy. These desktops are spread all over the country of course.
So my answer is "probably".
(Whether you "hope" that only one people amongst that >4000 desktops visits your site regularly, you decide :E .)
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