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Posted By

carrion
on 2017-11-17
10:48:51
 Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

Hi All
I was wondering why there's no Montezuma's Revenge game on C16. It looks doable without sprites, no?
Or maybe there is but I can't find it?
Anyway I think It could look much better than Atari or C64 version. I'm actually even considering doing gfx for it Which reminds me I have to get back in touch with one of the coders regarding the game coding

Posted By

Csabo
on 2017-11-17
11:20:22
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

You didn't miss it, this game does not exist for the C16/Plus4.

I looked through a C64 longplay, and it seems to use sprites heavily (main character, enemies). So... sure, a particular version of this game *could* be developed, after all, we do have some similar platformers. Developed is the key word though, most of the mechanics could not be reproduced with code conversion.

Posted By

carrion
on 2017-11-20
08:11:45
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

I've played the game on C64 yesterday to see how complex it is and IMO the sprites, that seam to be the only tough issue are relatively easy - as far as a graphical can say..
the background is black (no tiles under the sprites). and if it comes to moving (animated) sprites on screen there's 2 or 3 maximum appearing on screen at the same screen. The game is flip-screen based which doesn't bring more complexity.

So... saying all that, who wants to do it with me? Any coder interested?

C

Posted By

Mad
on 2017-11-20
13:16:06
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

I hope you find some coder who wants to make this game. I looked a little in the net about this and found these sites:

http://symlink.dk/nostalgia/c64/montezuma/ - the c64 maps for the complete game.
http://www.bjars.com/disassemblies.html - the complete Atari VCS 2600 source code.
http://www.smspower.org/Maps/MontezumasRevenge-SMS - the better looking Sega Master System versions maps.
https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/403556 - this is a link to a pc version with source code and level creator

So it should be doable.

I know there are some coders with more real C16 16k experience here, because I don't know if it would fit easily in these 12k of the C16..

Would be nice if some programmer would jump up the train. I am crossing fingers for you and this novel game!

Posted By

siz
on 2017-11-20
16:07:28
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

I'm really intrigued by the task but unfortunately I'm pretty sure I won't have time for another project in the next two or so years.
Sometimes I really have to restrain myself to don't start new things besides the current 6 or so ones. (Half of them for the plus/4).

Posted By

Chronos
on 2017-11-21
06:30:40
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

hey siz, silence and dotc

Posted By

carrion
on 2017-11-21
09:40:02
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

@chronos
wait, wait and let him speak

@mad
thanks for links. have the map already and it looks impressive.
but with some compression (I used HCL's byte boozer for few personal projects) it may be possible to fit into 16k
We'll see.

Posted By

KiCHY
on 2017-11-21
13:56:58
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

C16 or +4? You mention +4 in topic title, and C16 in first post. Developing to C16 needs much more courage

Posted By

carrion
on 2017-11-21
15:04:13
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

@kichy
I know it takes courage. And I won't do it myself. Wanna code?
And you know the right answer.
I promise to do all necessary gfx quickly so you can code.
besides we have the maps, the tools, and I have the title screen already. Nice one IMO, but if you don't believe me ask Mad
I'll show you the title screen after the Atari Silly Venture party - after 10th Dec.

Posted By

Hypex
on 2017-11-25
01:24:22
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

This was one of my favourite games I played on the C64 at my friends house. A 264 version would be cool. And yes, it would be strange playing without sprites, as the main character would be an invisible ghost.

Posted By

JimmyCoupe
on 2017-11-28
08:50:07
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

I loved Montezumas Revenge on my Atari 8Bit. Forget a C16 version and go for a Plus4 only release.

Wasn't this game a 48k game any way so good luck with a C16 version .

I would pay to see this game on my Plus4.

Posted By

carrion
on 2017-11-28
15:16:15
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

@JimmyCoupe
Yeah the C16 version would be challenging, but right after your post I started to do some calculations. and
the game has 100 screens (1+3+5+7.....+19) according to maps found on internet.
the screens look like they utilise only few chars (tiles) and look like they can be easily packed. I used Byteboozer from HCL previously for private project, and it has great results. but I think even RLE compression could give good results of packing the levels into RAM. and RLE is faster (I guess) and maybe even usable for this kind of game screens to be decompressed hen changing from screen to screen.
I have to do real tests now that involve code (depacker) and game map tests...
will get back to you - sometime soon I hope.

Posted By

KiCHY
on 2017-11-29
04:50:14
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

- Examining the rooms you can recognize that they aren't made of larger tiles, but chars only (or 1x1 tiles..). You can't use the usual tileset technique here. Removing the props (door, key, enemy, etc) only empty spaces and walls remain, which you can describe in 1 bit. The whole 40x25 wall info fits in 1000bits/125bytes. Or you can build the screen by a "build command list": "put a 40chars long wall at 0,0", "put a 8chars tall wall at 16,2), etc. Or we can say, we have less empty spaces than walls, so describe the empty areas only, this results shorter command lists.
- Another fact that several rooms are very similar, only doors/keys/enemies/etc differ in them, the walls are the same. It would be a waste to store them multiple times.

Posted By

bubis
on 2017-11-29
05:37:16
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

Gents, you don't have to create a one-filer, you don't have to have all the room data in memory all the time. You can load the rooms/screens from disk when you need them. Or, you can pre-load a cache of some rooms (like the neighbour rooms of the actual one) and quickly depack when you change room (and then update the cache with the new neighbour rooms as a background task).

Don't forget that you have a very fast and small irq loader with a built-in depacker that works with 1541/1551!
If you want an even smaller loader without a depacker, I can create it for you.

If you don't like to load from the main program (like how Bitfire is loading) I have a small routine that splits the stack and can run an extra thread for N cycles every time you call it. You can use that to run any low priority background task from irq and you can do whatever you need to do in the main program.

Posted By

carrion
on 2017-12-11
10:18:02
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

@bubis, @guys
ofcoz we don't have to load all into RAM but my idea was to do a game like I used to play in 80's on my c116 - loaded from tape
anyway I started doing some tests yesterday to see what are we standing on...

I ripped some levels from C64 version (screen is on $4400-$4800) and tried how they pack.
- So for example first screen packs into 230 bytes.
- some levels pack even into 104 bytes (the ones only with corridor)
I used HCL's byte boozer and I have to say it depicts quite quick right into screen memory $0c00

My second test was to create a 2x2 tileset and do a map of it mimicking the first screen (20x12 tiles). It looks very similar and actually is a good trade-off without loosing too much details. The first screen fits into 8 chars (64 bytes) and after packing it with byte boozer it has 86bytes. ofcoz I'll need a buffer of 20x12 to unpack it + then move tiles to screen. I'll do more tests with packing 2x2 maps and will let you know guys.
but if we do simple math and assume 86 bytes as average (IMO it will be less than that) and do multiply it by 99 screens the we have 8514 bytes for whole map.
Dont you think it starts to look doable now?
Ofcoz the techniques that Kichy describes could be used too.

So what do you think?

----------------------------
[edit]

last weekend there was an Atari party in Poland. I released two pics one of them was for Atari 8nit and had this Rick Dangerous / Montezuma's Revenge theme to it.
Today I've made quick mockup how this pic could look like on C+4.
Do you think it could be a title screen for Montezuma's Revenge kind of game for C+4? ;)
Enjoy

http://retronavigator.com/post/168430684008/i-wondered-how-my-latest-atari-8bit-image-could

[edit2]
I dont know why this link above is not clickable. I used the tag but it doesn't work

Posted By

Luca
on 2017-12-11
10:36:42
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

Just...WOW

Posted By

RKSoft
on 2017-12-12
10:35:15
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

@carrion
it looks awesome

Posted By

Majikeyric
on 2017-12-12
12:00:54
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

oh yeah!!!!

Posted By

JamesD
on 2017-12-12
12:08:28
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

WOW!

Posted By

Mad
on 2017-12-12
14:14:35
 Re: Montezumas Revenge on C+4?

Incredible Picture!! Looking mega awesome.. It's a plus/4 and even more it's an Atari 8 bit!!



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