Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2013-12-14
17:21:30
|  Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
Hi!
I'm long time searching all info between differences of these Commodore computers:
C16/116
C264/364
PET4032/8032/8096/8296/SuperPET
Differencies between PET models is easier to find.
Differences between C264 and C364 is I mean not so hard, but no one helped me to present how to check it.
Difference between C16 and C116 is hardest to find.
Officially they're software and harware identical.
But I mean they have BIG KEYBOARD LAYOUT DESIGN DIFFERENCE.
In case of C116 are missing keys:
SHIFT LOCK and direction keys are differently mapped.
Direction keys are differently mapped I mean . in case of C128 I'm to this date very surprised that designers of C128 were not inspired by TED (or 264) series...
Some guys told me that direction keys are too different and if could be layout like C64, differences of direction keys couldn't work.
So, I mean also in case of C116 is not easy to map as the same also direction keys.
SHIFT LOCK is in case C116 totally missing.
Yes, we know that in C64, C128 and C65 cases was hardwired to LEFT SHIFT.
I wrote routine for C128 which can detect if is LEFT SHIFT or SHIFT LOCK pressed.
So, I mean this can be difference in C116 - but until is SHIFT LOCK pressed.
When is not pressed is not possible to check. If is pressed on C16 then is sure that it's C16.
But what while is not pressed?
I mean only keymap and keyboard layout scan routine can be different...
CAN ANYBODY HELP ME HOW TO RECOGNIZE BETWEEN C16 AND C116?
Many thanks for everything.
Miro
|
|
Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-12-14
19:34:39
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
Hi Miro,
Seems like this question is a duplicate, so let me refer you to my last reply.
Also, I don't think it's possible do detect the difference between the regular shift and shift lock, so no help there.
Well, perhaps someone else knows more than I do 
|
|
Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2013-12-15
14:32:33
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
Hi!
Yes, duplicate. But I'm still missing answer.
SHIFT LOCK and LEFT SHIFT is possible to detect - my own routine works - but I can't to test it on C16 or C116 - routine is written for my C128 and I'm not able or don't know to reprogram it for TED series. Also is possible to detect between LEFT and RIGHT SHIFT... also works.
Compatibility of CPUs 65xx (128's 8502) between 7501/8501 is for me unknown, also don't know how to set data registers to OUTPUT and INPUT...
Miro
|
|
Posted By
Gaia
on 2013-12-15
15:15:55
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
You can distinguish between left and right shift on the C64/C128 but not on the C16/+4. It's just the same wire. Check out the keyboard matrix.
|
|
Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2013-12-15
15:40:59
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
OK, look also on C128 matrix...
LEFT SHIFT and SHIFT LOCK is mapped also like the same key - of course they're hardwired - and it's possible to recognize between... my own routine works - it's based on data pointers Input and Output exchange during scan...
So, I mean that any trick must to exist also for C16 or C116 - but I'm not TED series programmer so it's for me easy to say, but I can't to test it...
So, existing SHIFT LOCK on C16 can to be recognized - really don't know if before pressing it...
I wrote also routine for C128 which makes SHIFT LOCK the same function like CAPS LOCK... and it makes CAPS LOCK free to own use.
I mean all, or every difference must to have any effect - also if is smallest...
Miro
|
|
Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-12-15
16:31:12
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
Again as far as I know, on the C16/C116/Plus4:
- Differentiating between SHIFT and SHIFT LOCK is not possible
- Differentiating between left or right SHIFT is not possible
Otherwise, we have the code code to check for a key press. It's very simple and has comments. It should allow you to play around and write your own "detection" routines. On the same page you will find the keyboard matrix.
plus4encyclopedia/500012
Good luck!
|
|
Posted By
JamesC
on 2013-12-15
16:56:07
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
You're asking for something that isn't possible. The 264 series is NOT built like the 64 or 128.
Here's a picture of the 264 series (16, 116, 232, 264, V364) keyboard matrix:
http://www.devili.iki.fi/Computers/Commodore/Plus4/Service_Manual/large/page_07a.gif
You can see from that matrix that there's only ONE Shift key, from the keyboard's point of view. What you find as the right shift on the C64 is the Escape key on the 264 series.
Detecting between Shift and Shift Lock is not possible on the 264 series either. Either a shift is pressed (or locked) or it's not. The link above shows that the Lock switch mechanically connects column 2 with row 7. See this photograph and count the Shift keys, you'll understand why. ;)
http://ted.amigalounge.com/Images/116proto-1.JPG
|
|
Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2013-12-15
17:04:52
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
OK, I try to play the game with code... but where to test it?
Emulator of C16 is the same as C116... needs it real machine only?
Miro
|
|
Posted By
JamesC
on 2013-12-15
17:20:39
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
Miro: I use YAPE emulator for testing code these days. All my 264 hardware is packed away. 
10 PRINT PEEK(1347)
20 GET A$: IF A$ = " " THEN END : REM space between quotes
30 GOTO 10
1 = Shift key is pressed or locked
2 = Control key is pressed
4 = Commodore key is pressed
3 = Shift and Control
5 = Shift and Commodore
7 = Shift, Control, and Commodore
In YAPE, Control is the left Control key on a PC keyboard. Commodore is the right Control key, and the PC's Caps Lock is the 264's Shift Lock. :)
[Note: edited Peek and keyboard mapping.]
|
|
Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-12-15
17:22:57
| Re: Commodore 16 vs 116 - keyboard layout different - is possible to detect between?
YAPE should be good enough to test if your stuff runs, but otherwise there are several folks who have C116s. So if you're patient, have something reasonable to test and ask nicely, I think it can be done
|
|
