Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-05
14:03:55
|  Air Cooling
Hi has any one done any Air cooling with the plus 4 as I have a separate power supply so as to connect a few fans up to cool the power supply and the plus 4 I thought if I place a hd fan on the ventilation grill on the top of the plus 4 and filter any access holes to stop dust being pulled in she would stay quite cool ,just a thought best wishes Brian
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Posted By
bszggg
on 2013-11-05
15:13:27
| Re: Air Cooling
The original idea on the PC too, the fan is put the cold air in the machine, across a filter and the warm are go out any hole. The filter is need to cleaned any times.
If he have got too more noise, you can use a fan speed controller. (it is a voltage reduction with a potmeter) But a PC fans are two voltage. 5V and 12V. But if the Plus4 9v AC transmitted to DC Maybe is is low noise then the original PC 12V fan noise. Try to 12V Pc fan. It work to lower noise.
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-05
15:36:44
| Re: Air Cooling
Hi bszggg thanks for your reply and yes I have a fan controller just not sure now as I read a article where there was some confusion as to which was best to push air in or suck air out both ways needing filters but one way was cooler and I can't remember which way it was lol what do you think my friend ? best wishes Brian
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Posted By
RobertB
on 2013-11-05
21:45:49
| Re: Air Cooling
scarrabri wrote:
> I have a separate power supply so as to connect a few fans up to cool the power supply...
I haven't put a fam in my Plus/4 power supply. Instead, the power supply has been rebuilt with modern-day components. Now it outputs 2.4 amps @ 5 VDC and 1 amp @ 9 VAC.
> ...and the plus 4 I thought if I place a hd fan on the ventilation grill on the top of the
> plus 4...
Have you thought about putting in EPROMs? They run cooler and use less power. Also heat-sinking the chips would be good, too.
Sucking hot air out of the casing is preferred,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-06
15:22:42
| Re: Air Cooling
Hi RobertB! Thank you for the info. May I ask you how you attached the heat sinks to the chips and which chips would I need to cool, as I am not sure what's what inside the Plus/4?
I actually like water cooling and wonder if there's enough room inside the Plus/4 to use the water cooling blocks that they sell quite cheaply and use a small pump outside the casing. I used a pelier inside my last PC which worked really well, but failed because of condensation trouble. Anyways, off to on ebay for water cooling kits. Best wishes, Brian.
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Posted By
RobertB
on 2013-11-07
03:30:29
| Re: Air Cooling
scarrabri wrote:
> May I ask you how you attached the heat sinks to the chips...
The thermal epoxy sold at computer stores. (There is also the thermal tape, but it's not as efficient.)
> ...and which chips would I need to cool...
The TED and the CPU chips.
> I actually like water cooling and wonder if there's enough room inside the Plus/4 to use
> the water cooling blocks that they sell quite cheaply and use a small pump outside the
> casing.
I doubt there is room in the Plus/4 casing to put in water cooling. However, I've had that same water-cooling idea for my C128DCR and Amiga towers.
One day I should do it,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-11-07
04:29:15
 | Re: Air Cooling
I would not worry about cooling your Amiga.
Not only did I abuse my A1200 as a desk top using an A500 power supply to keep it alive for years, around 1998 I put the whole thing in a Power Tower.
This was what I built.
A1200T, Apollo 1260, 32MB RAM, 3.1 ROMS, 4GB HD, Z4 Board, Picasso II Graphics card, IOBlix (Serial/Parallel), Squirrel SCSI, 2X CD, IDE 100MB Zip Drive. Using an A4000 keyboard.
For years my Amiga would be on daily building C16/Plus4 ClassiX, taking screen shots, sorting out software and a whole lot more as well as being used as a games machine/computer as it was also online.
That tower and everything in side it still work perfectly today! All I ever do is change the clock battery every 5 years lol.
Even my multi-sync VGA/AGA monitors still work. 
My Amiga would be the last thing on the list for cooling and I don't intend to look into it either. It's out lived PC's and many game consoles. Hard to believe Windows 95 was doing the rounds when I started building it up and it's still running today. That's my original A1200 still in my Tower working today. 
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Posted By
SVS
on 2013-11-07
05:59:56
 | Re: Air Cooling
The real problem is the Plus/4 power supply. It is really undersized then its components warm too much (and often burn).
I've solved the problem by moving the power transistor UA7805 to the external case of the power supply, and put it over a large heat sink.
About internal chips, put over them heat sinks glued by "thermal grease".
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-11-07
11:23:31
| Re: Air Cooling
Would be nice to see some pictures of these Plus/4's with heat sinks and the like. All I ever do is put new heat sink compound/paste on top of TED once in a while just to keep it fresh and working. Too much can be bad also...
I keep thinking about putting a proper heat sink inside but never see any pictures of other peoples machines to see what they did.
Since owning a C16 I've never had to worry about them as there is plenty of room inside the case left over to put a whole Plus/4 in there lol. Plenty of room for air and it's TED was never covered over either. Solid machine. If only you could get hold of 64k memory carts like you can SID cards for our machines! 
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-07
15:25:41
| Re: Air Cooling
Hi RobertB thank you for info very much appreciated can I ask where would one buy Eproms from and what do they do and how many do I have ?in my plus 4 lol best wishes Brian
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Posted By
Jakec
on 2013-11-07
15:33:56
| Re: Air Cooling
A laptop cooler is not doing so?
http://gallery.remotecpu.com/index.php/Commodore-Collection/100_2639
http://www.softpres.org/_detail/wip:2009-11-11:cimg0034.jpeg?id=wip%3A2009-11-11&cache=cache
and the brutal version:
http://www.azog.org/?p=1583
this is the best:
http://www.theoldcomputer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3934
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-07
15:35:30
| Re: Air Cooling
Hi I will second that more pics would be hell of a bonus for some of us Newbies as I am still not sure where Ted is and other cpu chips ,and I am really impressed with your Amiga MIK but I also think cooling would be a great idea and keep thinking about covered micro bore copper and I am sure there must be tiny water heat sinks that with a little bit of thought a connection could be made to fit the water sinks and the pump/storage vessel but what do I know im just a Heating Engineer /plumber come musician beatle taker off .best wishes Brian.
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-07
20:39:30
| Re: Air Cooling
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/scarrabri/0b5164e0-bc16-4e65-be01-fef968d54f7d_zps4a1b2f6d.jpg
[URL=http://s730.photobucket.com/user/scarrabri/media/0b5164e0-bc16-4e65-be01-fef968d54f7d_zps4a1b2f6d.jpg.html][IMG]http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/scarrabri/0b5164e0-bc16-4e65-be01-fef968d54f7d_zps4a1b2f6d.jpg[/IMG]
Not sure if any of these links work but here's a pic of the use of Heat sinks in the plus4
best wishes Brian
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-07
20:45:52
| Re: Air Cooling
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/scarrabri/0b5164e0-bc16-4e65-be01-fef968d54f7d_zps4a1b2f6d.jpg
or maybe this one will work lol pic of heat sinks on plus4 best wishes Brian
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-11-08
04:35:06
| Re: Air Cooling
Pictures work. Not really what I would be looking for when it comes to heat sinking as TED is exposed.
You see the longest chip with a dab of white paste on the top in the middle that sits in a case, it has a lid on it on an untouched Plus/4, that's the TED.
The chip to the right of this with the gold colour heat sink on the top is the CPU.
Both these chips are prone to failing or can be. I would of expected more effort to of been made on the TED than anything.
The chips under the large silver plate are nothing to worry about as such as they are least likely to fail, more so if you have a number of spare machines. These chips out number TED & CPU's that are still working today. Sometimes they can go, but not that common they do. 
Up above on the site menu's your see Hardware.
Or click here: Hardware
If you take a look and scroll down a little your see all the chips. Click on each one for info of what they do and the different number types. Your be able to relate better to what your looking at when you have your Plus/4 open.
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-10
10:10:44
| Re: Air Cooling
Hi MIK I see you too are from the uk lol thanks for the information again as I managed to get a few heat sinks fixed to Ted and the cpu ,I had to have two goes as I used thermal pads at first even though advised not too and they fell off ,so used a thermal compound and success ,my attempt at installing two small fans inside the case and a controller out side seems a good way to go but not sure if it is worth it and might not be needed and water cooling is a dream but there is no room inside the plus 4 case also managed to fit another keyboard and every key works real well except the return key which could be better but apart from that she runs beautifully ,
On the music side I have downloaded loads of songs off this site and think they are awesome ,I just need a book now that gives instruction on how to compose in to the plus4 as the music is perfect for backing my ukulele like a one man band lol ,best wishes Brian.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-11-11
05:50:13
| Re: Air Cooling
Did that second Plus/4 come with a User Manual?
A good amount of the commercial music can be remade in basic by hand as there is nothing fancy going on. The User Manual does cover sound, what number the notes should be and different ways to code it in basic. Easy to do if you wanted to recreate stuff without having to know machine code.
I once remade the music for Tom Thumb in basic, sounded just like the real thing and was now on permanent loop with a GOTO 10 lol.
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Posted By
scarrabri
on 2013-11-11
14:23:45
| Re: Air Cooling
Hey Mik ,it did not come with a manual but I have bought one off ebay now and it will be here soon then I will do the same as you and try to write some thing to back my uke lol thanks matey Brian.
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