Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-08-31
18:41:08
|  Converting .tap to cassette.
Hello everyone.
I am at the end of my tether trying to restore some of my old plus/4 games. I have found the .tap files to convert to .wav and the very minimal software to do it. I have managed to get the audio to a cassette via my pc sound card and a cassette recorder but my plus/4 just won't read the tapes. I have tried all kinds of variations of volume and I just can't achieve a load, I can't even get a "found" message. The tapes I made sound good; they sound the same as an original tape, so please where am I going wrong????
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-08-31
22:04:55
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Hey there and welcome to our forum!
I wish I could say that I know the answer, but sadly I've never done this before. I do know that this came up before, and there are a few regular forum members who messed around with this kind of stuff, so an answer is sure to turn up. (And once it does, I promise to make a new FAQ out of it  )
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Posted By
Jakec
on 2009-09-01
03:14:02
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
You get better results if you try cable X1531.
http://plus4world.powweb.com/hardware/390063
and many infos:
http://markus.brenner.de/x1531/index.html
http://sta.c64.org/
http://commodore-gg.hobby.nl/CIP/Pagina/INFO-TapeTransfer-GB.htm
http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/cip/article/index/tape_transfer
I have not yet been done. But,The Truth Is Out There
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-09-01
12:38:56
 | Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Hello and welcome
Do you have some other (old) tapes that load fine with the very same datasette? Misalignment is a very common problem.
If other tapes load perfectly...
Then, what kind of cassette recorder have you used? Some ppl reported that it was easier to produce working tapes with MONO cassette recorders.
If you have a stereo one and the balance is adjustable, you could try just recording on one channel. Depending on the cable you use, instead of adjusting the balance you could also disconnect the left/right channel. Even if the .wav is mono and both channels should be the same, stereo recording might produce some echoing.
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Posted By
Andras78
on 2009-09-01
15:25:22
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Hi,
I've the same situation, please visit this topic
http://plus4world.powweb.com/forum/17004/
could be help
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Posted By
Jakec
on 2009-09-01
23:57:14
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Andras78 you have managed to convert something back? If so, please write it down here, how? 
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Posted By
Andras78
on 2009-09-02
03:06:07
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
So, some days ago I've tried to record and convert my old cassettes and start of my favorite one: "Időlabirintus"
Not necesseary to introduce it, really fun
The project was start with get a cable with two Jack. One of these is going into my Out line and the other one is to my HiFi (I know it is not so practical, but it was success...)
Gaia is reccomended a record setting:
Gaia said:
"
1) high pass filter~100 Hz
2) low pass filter ~5000 Hz
3) Amplify with clipping (probably most important)
" (oh, and try MONO, 44100Hz <-- it is fine as opposed others opinion )
It should be working fine, I sent my recorded 'wav' file to Gaia and he did the same filtering tried with Yape. This was almost success, the Header of the file was found by the Yape, (Loading...Found Idolabirintus...), but the recorded sample was not so clear.
Unfortunatelly I did not tried another recording, it is waiting when I have a little bit more time to try it again. It is really demand more patience and time
I do not know how is your status, but please let me inform if it is help or not, I really like this to do
Hopefully it is help a little bit
A
ps.: this could be help too: http://www.javalemmings.com/minus4/tape.htm
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-09-02
14:16:14
 | Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Funny, but some years ago (when only ZX Spectrum emulator was fast enough to properly run on my slow 486 computer), I did similar exercise with my very old Spectrum tape (if I am right, at that time the emulator package had the conversion tool). I hade some success with Manic Miner and an other one also.
Does the C-16 tape format more complicated, more coded then Spectrum one to able to get the right details? In fact it seems very interesting, as the ZXSpactrum baud rate was ~1350, while Commodore one was only ~300 (I just googled it, not such abig expert )
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-03
16:05:14
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
First, thank you so much for the interest and the friendliness.
Second I have looked at the proposals and of them all TapWav seems perfect. BUT, it only works with version 1 .taps, and I still cannot get the plus/4 to read one. I have four different datasettes, and a brand new mono cassette recorder with suitable connectors. There is no alignment problem they all load original tapes. This is really frustrating, I have managed to do this with my TOSHIBA MSX computer without problem: I even moved all my MSX tapes to a mp3 player. Why can't I do this with my beloved PLUS/4?
Please keep the suggestions coming; I REALLY want to acheive this, I may even build an old 32bit dos machine just to record the plus/4 tapes. There has got to be a solution!!!!!
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-03
16:50:33
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Holy cow!! I just managed to convert a Vic20 .tap to audio and it works!!! I just loaded chariot race as a .WAV using just a cable link to my pc. The problem is I am using TapWav and it just does not like most of my .tap files......
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-09-04
16:28:25
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
what program did you use when converting from TAP to WAV? And what turbo loader?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-09-05
10:32:37
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Obviously there's a lot of confusion surrounding this issue, but like you said the truth is out there
At first I didn't know what TAPWAV was either, it's not directly linked from the above topic, but I found it. You're referring to this C64 program: http://www.luigidifraia.com/c64/index.htm#TAPWAV. There are apparently several other utilities that do the same thing: they take a .TAP program file, and create a .WAV audio file out of it, which should be suitable for recording.
The issue seems to be the .TAP file format. The C64 only supports "wholewave" format, and therefore most of the utilities, including TAPWAV, only support that. The C16/Plus4 can handle "halfwaves" as well, and several .TAP files that we have on the site are in that format.
The solution to this could be using Tap2Wav, a conversion utility that Gaia wrote, and we had it here on the site all along. I chatted with him today, he confirmed that it supports both wholewave and halfwave .TAP files. I suggest give this a try: use Tap2Wav to convert your TAP files and record the resulting WAV to a cassette. It should work
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-05
12:18:45
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
TAP2WAV sounds great but how is it used? It doesn't run on 64bit, and on 32bit xp all you get when you run it is a brief flicker then nothing. Is it DOS software? Does anyone here know how to run it?
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-09-05
15:52:15
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
It's not DOS program but a command line Win32 executable. So you fire up a command prompt (cmd.exe) and issue this command:
TAP2VAW theinputtapfile.tap theoutputwavfile.wav
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-06
08:10:48
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Thanks for the heads up, but this method is also flawed. TAP2WAV will convert the old type of .tap files but it will not open .tap files available here (the later type) it just reports 'invalid or corrupt .tap file'
Basically I can not find a program with 2 very important features, 1: it must open the type of .tap files available here 2: It must have a reverse sample option.
For example I have TapWav 2.5d working for my Vic-20. There are plenty of the older .taps available so the there is no issue with the later type .taps, and secondly I can achieve a load every time if I check the REVERSE SAMPLE option. So, with an audio cable plugged into my pc headphone socket and the other end in the Vic cassette port all I do is type 'load' on the Vic and click play on the Pc. Easy. I can now find any software I want for my Vic and use my pc like a software liabrary. I just want to do the same with my Plus/4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By
Andras78
on 2009-09-07
01:39:15
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Csabo: Thanks the link above :D That is great!
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-09-07
04:34:42
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
mr zetec: just which TAP files did you try? I checked briefly and it worked for me (at least the conversion). No error messages at all. Such an error messages indicates that the TAP header is corrupt or missing which could be the case if you downloaded a TAP file that has TAP in its name, well that is actually a RAW file.... the confusion comes from the fact that the Minus4 emulator being the first to support tape images called the RAW wave files TAP's. What later became the (M)TAP from the C64 world (CCS64 emulator) did not even exist at that time.
Regarding reverse sample, there's a way to load them back in an emulator or use this WAV2TAP here: http://rullhusen.gmxhome.de/, unfortunately there's no precompiled binary there but I could do that easily in case someone wants it.
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-08
09:28:35
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Hello Gaia, I am trying to convert MERCENARY (+4) from .tap to wav so that I can restore my original non working copy on tape. I want to do this by connecting a cassette recorder to my pc soundcard. This is the link to the file: http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/Plus4/Roms/0-M/Mercenary.TAP.zip
Also the reverse wave feature actually reverses the wave to counteract a feature of some pc sound cards where the card actually inverts the WAVE (please read: http://www.luigidifraia.com/c64/tapwav/help/index.html )
Please, if you find a reliable way to do this then post a short idiot's guide. I don't have much hair left to tear out
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-09-08
10:36:57
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
Bingo... that's the problem. The file you are downloading IS already a sample! It is a RAW 8-bit mono unsigned PCM, despite what the extension or the file name suggest. So you better open that as RAW format in a wave editor like Audacity or GoldWave or download a true MTAP image of Mercenary like this here:
http://plus4world.powweb.com/tap/mercenary.zip
I agree it is very confusing for newcomers. It is legacy stuff. Csabo, can we update these images to read 'RAW' instead of 'TAP' in their name?
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-08
11:52:16
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
These file extensions are really confusing. However I can see the difference when I import to Audacity. When I play with Audacity it seems to play the file you pointed to very quickly, its all over in 10 seconds. Is this a mistake or some kind of turbo load?
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2009-09-08
12:51:01
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
The file I pointed to is NOT a digital sample but a "regular" emulator (M)TAP image. There is really absolutely no use of loading it to Audaicty. The one you pointed to however, IS a "raw" format wave sample that can be loaded to a wave editor in case someone wants to tinker with it.
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Posted By
mr zetec
on 2009-09-08
22:07:30
| Re: Converting .tap to cassette.
This is a nightmare. There are so many variables. I have spent days now just trying to move a .tap back to tape. The closest I have came to restoring Mercenary was when I loaded it directly from my pc by playing a 'raw' image through the sound card to the datasette connector with audacity. Of the 6 .tap files I found for Mercenary only 1 would play in audacity. The volume levels require dozens of adjustments.... you never get the same results twice.... there are so many utilities each with their own flaws....Ok I am a newbie but I still managed to catologue a whole msx liabrary in a day. This should not be so difficult!
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