| Posted By
SVS
on 2007-03-28
03:11:16
 |  Does it worth to work for new projects?
(sorry in advance for possible English mistakes)
I am worried about the feeling running in these times in the scene, referred to the acceptance of new code. Csabo himself in a recent post did admit that he was "fearing" the answer of this. A recent further evidence is the way the new emulator by IstvanV was accepted by the community.
Personally I have a deep respect for who starts any new important project regarding the Plus4, don't care if it is a new game, a new utility, a new emulator, or other. Everybody who know how much difficult is to write software should do it. This is because I consider non-understandable some behaviors/comments from some of us.
Luca said (and wrote on LN too) that he passed a long disaffected time, last months. I don't know the exact reason, but I bet it is due to some reactions against his efforts to "build" something new for our machine.
About me, it it sufficient to name BalSys, a project "nearly" an Operating System pratically passed without any feedback.
I admit that this argument is not so glad but, all the times, this is the question: what want we do?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2007-03-28
10:00:30
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
I also released the source for all my tools and programs I coded so far, and most of them were very slow to get any feedback. It used to bother me.
(The site itself is a big (almost) open source project. Did anyone - other than the few guys I pointed this out to - notice that the site now uses URL rewriting for members, software, tools and a few other places? If you don't know what I mean, point your mouse cursor to SVS's name in the above post and look at the URL.)
I don't know all the answers, but my answer as to why I continue to do stuff: because I want to and it makes me happy. If I get feedback, good. If I don't, that's okay too. Is there really any other reason to do anything as a hobby?
As for the scene in general: I have no idea what drives it. I do know the enthusiasm comes and goes. At the moment, we seem gaining momentum in the demoscene area, and I couldn't be happier. 
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-03-28
10:24:27
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
Our world is so tiny, if someone is aiming for fame and/or feedback that should not be here in the first place. Start dumping Nintendo "ROMz" instead, and you're going to be popular
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2007-03-28
10:34:07
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
I can only talk for myself ofcourse:
First i want to give you feedback: Theres no week where i not take a look at your "Ultimate Rom Map" - This is essential contribution to our community, so: thank you a thousand times for that wonderful stuff! But BalSys is some kind of voodoo for me - i simply don't know what to do with it 
Second, i'd like to say that i don't fear the answer. I know why i'm doing what i'm doing: I'm spoiling my spare time, procrastinating a lot of important things in my life while hacking in DASM - because at the moment i'm doing it, it's big fun for me. I don't want to move the world. Ok, there are some things that i consider as "open invoices" i have with the +4 Sometimes hacking on a +4 is no fun at all for me, then i leave that old computer in the corner.
The least i expect is huge feedback. I'm happy to have people to chat about +4, spawning new ideas, doing a coop-demo (CD4 and 8SOB were such cooool expieriences), but i don't have a real target. I just want to keep it, what it should be: fun with old computers.
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2007-03-28
10:40:22
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
I agree with Csabo. True (and lasting) motivation comes from inside.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2007-03-28
11:48:20
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
Just a precisation: it is sure that nobody here is searching for fame or thanksgivin'.
But in the feeling of our tiny scene, where we know all, if one worked to realize a tool, well: it is happy if at least one (usering it) will drop a word.
For example, I would be glad if one told me "Hey what the Hell is that BalSys?", on the contrary it seemed to me that some works (not only mine!) receive any reaction (positive nor negative): this is the focus of my post.
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2007-03-28
14:51:39
 | Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
it will be good if we can comment on releases eg. attach a forum on each release on this page.. on the other side: it was something same in the old days without internet. how many feedbacks you get? the only feedback was the charts in the mags or sometimes on a party a guy came and sayz this/that was great.. scene guys making a lot of stuff without any useable help, so thats why we missing it..
once i asked dcd about this thing, he replied me "oh we can play wow in our spare time too, but its better for us" so, till we had freetime there is always something to "need to make" ..
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2007-03-28
16:14:19
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
SVS: About me, it it sufficient to name BalSys, a project "nearly" an Operating System pratically passed without any feedback.
There was feedback in 2004, when first introduced. I also note that there has been less and less interest with each subsequent release. In this particular case, Business Assembly Language is obscure enough that most people who know it are well over 50 years old, and not very likely to own a Plus/4 to begin with.
Therefore, I think that the majority of people who have downloaded it are either:
a) people who want a copy of EVERYTHING (personal collections, archive sites)
b) people who are inspecting your work, not necessarily planning to use it
c) people who think it's another assembler, not realizing it's not a 6502 assembler.
If it helps any..... Geos +4 is downloaded from cbm264.com roughly 25 times a month, and I have not had feedback on it for two years. What little feedback I get is "when will you release an NTSC+1541 version?", and that project is stuck on hold until I get more documentation from Maurice (the copyright holder, cbm264.com is just a licensed distribution site).
I have had several software projects over the last few years, with partial to almost complete code sitting here, that I don't complete and release. Some of my projects were released with no feedback whatsoever, and one project was blatantly taken and put on another site. I understand IstvanV's side, but I also understand discovering a lost piece of software and wanting to show it to the world.
We, as a community, cannot survive by keeping collections hidden in boxes. I admit I am as much to blame as many of us; it is harder and harder to sit down in front of the Plussy (or YAPE or MESS or whatever emulator you like) and code something new. The older we become, the more we realize that life is short and ther just is not time to accomplish everything we desire.
I would like to call on everyone out there to take one day out of their busy lives to completely comb through their collections, check your libraries against this site, and note what isn't here. Maybe you have a disk or tape that's missing from here. Maybe your box cover is intact and can be scanned to replace the fuzzy picture that we have now. Maybe you have a hardware oddity that we don't know of (like the prototype motherboard we discussed a couple of days ago).
And if you don't have the hardware to copy/image/scan your unique items, let us know. Between Csabo in Canada, myself in the US, and the multitude of us from the UK to Hungary and beyond..... there is always someone to help.
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2007-04-10
02:58:16
 | Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
First of all, I totally agree with Csabo. So much, that I really should stop my comment here, but as this question, or the received answers might be important for some sceners, I continue.
Coding on Plus4 is fun. It is fun, if you find your OWN fun in it. There is no point in doing anything with retro machines if you don't find the entertainment in it that you need. There are so many other things I do for entertainment.
Now I have a small boy. The biggest fun is to play with him, as his smile is the best thing that I have ever seen so far on this world.
I also collect wine. I constantly surf the net, auction sites, classifieds, looking for rare Tokaji Aszú bottles. I put my collection on the net.
I also have been playing Battlefield 1942 in a clan for 3 years now. A lot of time is needed for practice and matches.
Not long ago I realized, that I have quite a lot of free time, so I tought why not learning a 3rd foreign language? It is fun! Soon I will not need subtitles for some more movies...
What I really want to say is, that no matter what comes or goes, sooner or later I start thinking about new demo effects for the Plus4. Earlier I had time for this on the train, now, as I have a car, it mostly happens in the evening, before I fall asleep. I like to think about new solutions in coding, and I like to experiment. Soon, an effect is ready, then a demopart is ready, then You can play with design, timing to music, it's FUN! If we wait enough time, it will soon become a demo. And this is being a scener for me nowadays.
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Posted By
indi
on 2007-04-10
13:10:05
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
You don't (or shouldn't) write tools, demos or games on a retro machine for money or fame. You do it because you enjoy it. It will always be an ever decreasing circle or people interested in it because thats the nature of "retro computing".
But ..... you can help to increase the amount released for it by releasing tools, and source to various projects so people can modify them and release more stuff.
Aside from that.... don't worry about what others think.... do it for your own enjoyment and satisfaction!
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Posted By
SVS
on 2007-04-16
02:44:08
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
@James: Business Assembly Language is obscure enough that most people who know it are well over 50 years old, and not very likely to own a Plus/4 to begin with.
Just to clarify: The Balsys package is not intended only for 50 years ppl! Even if this project was started to emulate a BAL machine, since second release it was clear that the emulation was only one feature of the package.
Really if you browse the manual, you easy realize that it is a new fresh language (and environment), having modern features far from old BAL machines did.
(This is the core, my friends: one code something, but ppl not even browse the manual to know what it is...) :-/
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2007-04-16
17:05:36
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
SVS: I did not write that with any bad intentions. All I was pointing out is that B.A.L. (the language, not your project) is a language with limited exposure to the public at large.
I understand that you have expanded on it greatly, and yes I read the documentation (if you remember, I helped you clarify a few points in it). Your page on cbm264.com is still hosting the extra documentation that you authorized. Yet there are few downloads of it, fewer than of the program itself.
I apologize if you interpreted more than I meant in my post.
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Posted By
Jay
on 2007-04-21
09:41:01
| BAL SYS
SVS, just wanted you to know that although I am new the Plus/4, and don't have a lot of time to learn about it at the moment, I have been lurking in the background and watching your BAL-SYS package with interest. I am hoping that I'll get some time to play with it later in the year.
I just wanted you to know that you DO have an audience, maybe just a very quiet one!
Jay
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-04-22
09:27:26
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
I feel a section of one of my favourite books to be appropriate here... it's "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran (you can most probably find a local translation of this book for your language).
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/propht.htm#Work
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Posted By
SVS
on 2007-04-23
10:32:29
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
Thank you!
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-04-24
10:04:35
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
Not like I'd just had to be thanked for that in any way... I just like that book, it's certainly one of the most deep books I've ever read...
Speaking of the original topic... It's worth it if it's worth it for you, I'd say... and anything more is just bonus. Personally... if I enjoyed creating something calling for that, for me that was worth it... whatever...
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Posted By
siz
on 2007-04-24
10:57:15
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
TLC: I think "Thank you" was addressed to Jay.
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-04-25
05:39:28
| Re: Does it worth to work for new projects?
Well, sorry for being heedless, in that case <grin>.
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