| Posted By
Undertow
on 2016-01-14
00:07:54
|  Beginning Programming
Would You say that retro computers like The Plus4 are a good way for youngsters to learn to program? ...or are there better ("more relevant") ways these days? Please give reasons for your answer.
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Posted By
crock
on 2016-01-14
05:20:47
 | Re: Beginning Programming
Well, there is certainly more relevant languages for kids to learn nowadays such as Scratch, Tynker and Sneak, which are structured in such a way as to introduce children to modern programming concepts.
But that doesn't make using an old computer irrelavant. My daughters first program was a maths quiz we wrote together on a PET 2001 - that was only a couple of years ago and she was 9 at the time. You can still learn the basics of flow control, data-types and boolean logic which is just as relevant today in any IT department as it was then.
The issue is more likely to be the expectation of the child. When I got my first computer (a TRS-80 model 1) in 1979 at age 8, I learnt to program in basic for entertainment, as commercial games were almost nonexistent and my parents would not have bought them for me anyways. Nowadays most kids in developed countries have access to game consoles, tablets and some even have their own smart phones by age of 10 and thus and they get limitless quantities of "entertainment" served up for free.
It may be that you can instill in your kids the joy of creating something for the sake of creation alone, meaning that is the usefulness of the project is not as important as the thrill they get from knowing that they created it themselves. I've had some success with that, but it's a struggle to keep the interest up on my old computers. The payoff comes much quicker on modern GUI based kids languages. In that respect the Plus/4 would still be better than a PET or 64 as the Basic 3.5 at least has some graphics primitives.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2016-01-14
11:41:20
 | Re: Beginning Programming
My 5 and 9 years found to be fun to do PETSCII art, that could become "moving" and "flashing" after moved into the BASIC nad so some "basic" things. It is a kind of big fun factor for kids, have their OWN program, game. 
We are at the first step to draw the staring screen and to create the "monsters"
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Posted By
Majikeyric
on 2016-01-14
12:22:05
 | Re: Beginning Programming
Great PETSCIIs !!! Should join a party compo 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2016-01-14
13:32:47
| Re: Beginning Programming
Hmm, this got derailed pretty quickly...
What crock wrote above is a great answer (although I don't know any of the 3 languages he mentioned). My 2 cents: I wish it was so, but it's not. (That is: the Plus/4 isn't that great or relevant to teach stuff.) My anecdote is that my 10 year old son loves to do PETSCII doodles, he's made more than 50. We've talked about programming with him a few times and I showed him some stuff (both on the Plus/4 and on the PC using modern languages), but he hasn't been stuck with it.
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2016-01-15
03:12:17
 | Re: Beginning Programming
My 9 years old boy shows some interest, I have already shown him some stuff on Plus4 and I think that I'll give it a try to teach the basics mentioned by Crock. He finds it interesting and that's what it matters, to get a taste of the feeling and the basics of it and then he can learn more up to date languages easier.
Cheers.
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