Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-19
02:25:29
|  JiffyDOS PAL
I'm in the process of modding a NTSC Plus4 to PAL and would like to include JiffyDOS on it. Is the current version of the JiffyDOS rom work in both NTSC and PAL versions?
I have read elsewhere that a few lines of code can be changed in the NTSC version but the address do not match up with the NTSC version that I have.
I have the crystal and monitors that will handle the video.
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Posted By
Epy
on 2014-08-19
03:13:49
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
On this page you can order JiffyDOS overlay IC. You can see you have to choose different ICs for PAL or NTSC machines. I think one IC cannot serve both systems.
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Posted By
marcos64
on 2014-08-19
04:19:26
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
JiffyDOS PAL doesn't work 100% OK. At least in my C16.
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Posted By
siz
on 2014-08-19
07:11:58
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
I've compared PAL and NTSC JiffyDOS ROM images and they differ in only one byte: the initial value of $ff07. JiffyDOS itself works fine for me but the ROM-EL (the tiny adapter holding the flash ROM switchable between normal and JiffyDOS KERNAL) has already gone bad for me causing random lockups. Jim offered a replacement for me but I've not asked for it. (I burnt it for myself)
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Posted By
marcos64
on 2014-08-20
04:31:24
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
I've compared the files JiffyDOS_Plus4_6.01_NTSC.bin and JiffyDOS_Plus4_6.01_PAL.bin from RETRO Innovations, and there are 3 different bytes (and a lot of FF changed with 00).
While loading the black screen 'flashes' some times, both in a 14" Grundig TV and a 1084S. And it freezes quite often when I read the directory.
Now I doesn't care anymore because I prefer to use other things like Datel rom or AR6 with my C64 and I have my 1541 with standard CBM ROMs. And with the C16 I use Megaload.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-20
11:39:06
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Thanks for the replies. I had been to Jim's site but had not seen the PAL version. Reading the small print as they say I saw that both versions are included so I got them yesterday and did burned the EPROM and installed the crystal.
I'm almost there. System boots but is now in black and white. This is strange as the Sony PVM monitors display PAL and NTSC and are used for my PAL 128DCR's.
I must be missing something. The crystal and roms have been changed. Anything else needed?
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-20
12:19:34
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Thanks for the replies. I had been to Jim's site but had not seen the PAL version. Reading the small print as they say I saw that both versions are included so I got them yesterday and did burned the EPROM and installed the crystal.
I'm almost there. System boots but is now in black and white. This is strange as the Sony PVM monitors display PAL and NTSC and are used for my PAL 128DCR's.
I must be missing something. The crystal and roms have been changed. Anything else needed?
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2014-08-20
12:27:23
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
If you are using a plain RF TV lead, then its the modulator. Check if it can be switched to NTSC standard. If you are using SCART cable or some kind of luma/chroma cable, unfortunately, I can't help.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-20
12:49:16
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
I'm using an s-video modded cable. This gives me an idea though. My s-video cables have the ohm pots for adjustment. I may need to fiddle with it.
I have read about capacitors needing to be changed but don't know which one on the board to the rating it would need to be.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-21
10:40:08
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Well the s-video adjustment did not work.
I did the PAL switch on 2 different Plus/4's and still had a black and white display.
I switched to a different Sony monitor and guess what color. I was able to adjust the mother board pot to get full color. I'm not sure why it displays b&w on the other monitor but is in color with the PAL DCR.
PAL JiffyDOS is very fast on Plus/4 with the SD2IEC but is interesting on how it blanks the screen.
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2014-08-21
11:40:12
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Craftsman, it would be handy to know if you're in PAL-land (50Hz electric) or NTSC-land (60Hz electric). I'm guessing, from your spelling of 'color', that you're in NTSC-land. 
Try dropping a factory PAL Kernal into your Plus/4 to see if you get color on your other monitors. Your issue might not be with the Plus/4, but with JiffyDos PAL on a 60Hz power supply.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-25
12:26:56
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
JamesC sorry I should have said that from the beginning. I'm in the US.
I wondered the same thing as I had seen that there were 3 updates to the stock PAL Kernal.
I'll burn a stock kernal later today and give it a try.
Update: I was able to test out both stock PAL and JD PAL on the same monitor and still B&W. This occurred with both converted Plus/4's The other Sony is just fine.
Also a new thing. Once both EPRPOMs are installed JD and Monitor EPROM I can see much more vertical banding on the display. Maybe the timing of the EPROMs are effecting it.
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2014-08-25
17:22:13
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Do your monitors automatically sense the incoming signal, and switch to PAL or NTSC as appropriate? If so, is there an override in the monitor setup somewhere, to where you can force the monitor to PAL-B, PAL-G, or PAL-I? (Don't use PAL-N unless you have an 8365 TED.)
Do you have a standard monitor cable (8 pin DIN on computer end to 3 or 4 RCA plugs) to try in place of your S-Video cable? A 5-pin to 2 RCA plug cable, like one would use with the early C64s, would also work.
I understand your pain. I have 4 1551's, of which only one works correctly and that's on a 110 to 220 stepup transformer. Two of the others power up fine, then lock up when I try to do a disk operation. And one has NEVER worked, even when I swapped a 1541 transformer in.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-26
15:04:54
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Yes, both Sony PVN's auto detect the signal. The one that won't detect the PAL color on the Plus/4 displays it just fine on the 128DCR/PAL.
I've tested it with 3 different cables, 8 pin , 5 pin and a modded s-video.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-27
01:49:04
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
JamesC thanks for the reply.
My original idea to do this came from the fascination software NTSC/PAL switch you linked to. During the process I even tried the 22pf cap the same way shown but ended up with no pic. Eslapion was paid to make a 4way switchable JD none JD PAL/NTSC set up but seems to have taken my money and ran.
http://www.fascinationsoftware.com/FS/images/plus4_img_9049.jpg
Now I needed to adjust c10 to get color to show on the monitor that has been displaying PAL okay. If you look to the left of C10, C11 is a 22pf cap. Maybe I need to switch it out with a 32pf. I don't have an oscilloscope to verify the numbers.
Maybe someone in PAL land can verify what C11 is.
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Posted By
Imperious
on 2014-08-27
10:09:27
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Wish I'd read this earlier.
Did the PAL mod to one of my PLUS/4's and had no issues at all, fairly certain that I didn't have to add a capacitor after fitting the PAL kernal and the 17mhz crystal as the CL value of the crystal was close. I can verify this later however if You wish. I run mine through one of those ebay cheap s-video/composite to VGA converters into my Computer monitor, gives a great pic. Here is some info I copied from the fascination website
"I temporarily connected the right leg of the lower switch pole to the PAL crystal for testing. I got a 17.734475MHz crystal from digi-key and several different small capacitors at Fry's. You need to use a capacitor which has the right value in order to correctly balance the oscillator circuit. Each crystal has a characteristic value called load capacitance (CL), and you need to choose a capacitor to give a load capacitance in the circuit which closely matches the value for the crystal. The actual CL of the circuit is given as the series combination of the capacitors on each side of the crystal. One side is fixed by components on the motherboard, and is close to to 89pf. The other side is given by the capacitor that you choose to install with the crystal. The Plus/4 schematics give a CL of 32pf for the NTSC crystal, but the digi-key crystal that I bought for PAL has a CL value of 18pf. The equation to calculate the capacitor value is: (89 * CL) / (89 - CL). So I used a 22pf capacitor to go with the PAL crystal. "
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Posted By
Imperious
on 2014-08-27
10:15:39
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
Here is the crystal I purchased, has a load capacitance of 30pf, which is why I never needed to add a capacitor in series with it.
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/crystal-units/1308939/
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-28
12:02:09
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
I can't seem to find capacitance of the 17.73447 crystals that I have.
But I'll have to limit how much more testing I'll do on one of the MB. It appears that C10 pot on one of the MB is not adjusting. I have done too many pulling of caps, crystals and the MB on 1 is starting to show damage from it.
Does anyone know the rating for C10 and a supplier?
EDIT: I read the manual and it show C10 a 40pf but it looks like the manual is only for the NTSC version.
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Posted By
Imperious
on 2014-08-28
18:50:30
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
The ONLY parts that I changed converting to PAL from NTSC was the crystal and the Kernal Rom, therefore everything else is the same part whether Pal or NTSC.
Not sure about the RF part of the circuit, but that should be the same as well, hopefully hardly anyone uses that these days.
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Posted By
marcos64
on 2014-08-29
05:55:51
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
I've a C16 so things are a little bit different. But acording to the schematics "c16-251788-1of3.gif" there is no difference in the capacitors value between NTSC and PAL. I've checked my C16 PAL and C12 is indeed 22pF.
But I once modded a C64 NTSC to PAL. I changed only the clock and the VIC-II but the image was blurry and with color shadows. I had to change the modulator to get a good image. There are some pots inside the modulator, perhaps if you fine tune them you get a color image.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-08-30
00:12:03
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
On of my 128DCR's have the Vic crystal and modulator changed out while one does not have the modulator changed. Not much difference in the picture for s-video. On your c16 are you outputting to RF or the 8pin din?
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Posted By
marcos64
on 2014-08-30
04:31:25
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
On the C64, Chroma+Luma signals are amplified in the modulator, and the composite signal is created there too. So the modulator affects everything image related. Without the modulator you get no signal at all, no matter how you connect it. Not sure if the Plus4/C16 does the same.
I connect the C16 with a composite cable, with the Chroma+Luma signals I get a little chessboard effect.
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Posted By
craftsman
on 2014-10-06
14:53:50
| Re: JiffyDOS PAL
I've ordered a replacement for C10 another 40pf trimmer cap. I'll update here once it arrives.
Just to update the Forum. The 40pf trimmers arrived by make no difference in the color output to the one Sony PVM. sigh.... but at least it works on the other monitor.
Another update. Well I was able to snag a really nice DELL monitor with HDMI. I have an s-video to HDMI converter that works great with my PAL 64 on the big screen TV. Knowing that the one Plus4 did not display color but one did I converted the 3rd one I have. Guess what no color as well. This got me thinking at the only thing I can see that is different between all of the Plus/4s is I converted them to use the round 64 DIN plug for the power supply. I may convert one back tot he square DIN to see if it makes any difference.
I need to find a dead Plus/4 PS to steal the power cord.
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