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Posted By

Ati
on 2011-03-03
01:06:41
 Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

http://szamitastechnika.zsibvasar.hu/retro-szamitastechnika/commodore/hardver/commodore-sfd-1001-hd-lemezmeghajto-abszolut-ritkasag-3954495.html

I don't see it in Plus4world hardware database... The seller says, it works with hd disks!

Posted By

siz
on 2011-03-03
02:43:21
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

Hi Ati!

I don't think that SFD1001 (or 100I) works with the CBM 264 series computers. It uses IEEE-488 interface and I'm not aware of any IEEE-488 interface cards for our computers. So it does not have a place in our database.

Posted By

TLC
on 2011-03-03
04:37:00
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

An interesting find indeed... I'm wondering if the guy's gonna part with his CBM 720 too (which is an even more interesting find, considering the presumably low number of PET and CBM-II machines ever imported to HU).

The ad says the drive uses HD disks, which is crap. The drive eats QD disks, which is basically DD with just slightly better manufacturing quality (the magnetic properties of DD and QD are essentially the same, ...unlike HD, which is totally different). In HU I've never ever seen a QD disk in my whole life. All people I know of simply used DD disks in CBM high density drives (ie. drives like the SFD1001 and 8250LP the guy talks about). ...Nevertheless, the guy is obviously right that these drives provide 1M capacity on a single 5.25" disk. Basically DD 5.25" disks, yes.

Just as siz said, these are IEEE-488 drives. Back then, here (HU), there were lots of IEEE-488 interface cartridges manufactured for C64s -- simply because the SFD1001 has been a relatively "cheap" upgrade to 1541s. (By "cheap", I mean "cheaper than obtaining an already expensive PC-compatible computer, and re-writing our special C64-based application software"; it's definitely never been the toy of computer enthusiasts, it's been way too expensive for that). For Plus/4, I know of only one attempt to use an SFD1001: BSZ told me about his attempt to convert the ROM routines of a C64-based IEEE-488 interface card once. (He told me that it worked, but it obviously never became a product).

Posted By

Ati
on 2011-03-03
04:52:23
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

Oh yes. I remember now.
We were anno on a party (i don't remember where), and BSZ had a magnificent plus4 configuration. He showed a lot of real blocks on his disk...

Posted By

siz
on 2011-03-03
04:52:27
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

In the past I've also planned to make an interface for the plus/4. Just to satisfy my curiosity.
But unfortunately all my IEEE-488 drives (2 SFD-1001 and a 8250LP) are faulty. The 8250LP was advertised as a working one with interface for the C64 but both was dead. One of the SFD's was faulty when I bought it but the other one worked. They were really cheap from my friends garage. A few years ago I tried to power up them but all of them are dead now with the same symptom: the LED error codes indicate a faulty (and unfindable) RIOT.
As for the CBM 720: there were some PET's and CBM B series computers on Vatera last year but they were fairly expensive. This guy won't part from his one as he says in the advert that he sells the SFD because of a recently acquired 8250.

Posted By

gerliczer
on 2011-03-03
06:09:02
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

siz,

By RIOT do you mean this one: http://www.elettrosurplus.com/sh_index.php?c=0&p=59?

Posted By

siz
on 2011-03-03
08:39:34
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

gerliczer: thanks for the link. As I remember this problem is caused by the 6530 RIOT. There are 3(!) RIOT chips in these old drives: 2 of the 6532 and 1 6530. You can find some 6532 on the web but not the 6530.
Edit: SFD 1001 part list

Posted By

MMS
on 2015-06-16
18:06:35
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

Hi Siz,

did you succeed to revive the SFD1001?
I am curious, if you could do something with the IEE interface to Plussy

I just recently saw a working SFD1001 for 25000 HUF (~80€), but without any cables or adapter.

That 1MB capacity (4100 blocks) on a better quality DD disc, that really interest me...
Also: how much could be the speed after converter compared to the original 5x speed compared to 1541? Or somehow could be connected/converted to the CBM bus used by the 1551? I see some similarities here...
LOT of pictures may fit to one disc, haha.
Although t would require a new disc form in the emus, maybe .D01

Posted By

siz
on 2015-06-17
00:41:12
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

Hi,

yes, the SFD-1001 is now alive. I found out that it was not the RIOT but one of the 6502-s so I used the one from the 1541C with the bad power supply you sent me.

BSz has a working IEEE-488 interface in his plus/4 but it's built in and prototype only.

Posted By

MMS
on 2015-06-17
13:15:22
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

yeah, it is great news!

In fact: how it works? So if BSz connects it to the Pussy, does the DIECTORY sand other command work flowlessly, or it needs special device address and direct commands? or behaves as an 1551, just with 4000 blocks of free space? I have some 3M, Verbatim and Parrot floppy discs, supposely they willdo the job (I know it needs good quality DD discs to able to store 1MB properly)

Posted By

MMS
on 2015-09-19
19:36:30
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

OK Guys, here it is: there is an existing, cheap device may connect IEC to IEE488, without opening your Plus/4.
It is a modern one, theoretically supports JiffyDOS too, but I am not aware of SDF1001 JiffyDOS EPROM

The drawings are in ASCII, so have fun
http://www.nlq.de

I am not a real expert doing such things, but I found a guy built them in Hungary few years ago.
I just sent a mail to him if any piece left there, or if he may willing to do one (some).

There is an existing other, old devide, called INTERPOD, that does the same, but very rare and expensive.
As it does not support JiffyDOS (even theoretically) it will reach only normal 1541 speed.
But you may have 3700 free blocks on one Disc.

I checked Alibaba: you can get for 15-20USD an IEE488 cable with free shipping.

We are very close to get SFD1001 work on Plussy, even for lamer like me, who do not open the case

Posted By

MMS
on 2015-09-19
19:49:33
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

http://mikenaberezny.com/hardware/c64-128/interpod-ieee-488-interface/

I suppose this is the mentioned built-in IEE488 Interface Prototype (nice work); it is in Hungarian, but with several pictures
http://hup.hu/node/121506


Posted By

MMS
on 2017-07-10
18:37:15
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

Hi Siz,

just a question: if my IEE488 adapter may arrive, are you willng to sell the revived unit for a price, or you also use it or willing to use it? or you are a collector, and this is the diamond on the crown?


OK Guys, some update :-)


Test reports will come, probably some videos in January. (unfortunately my DELL monitor is too picky on the composite input quality, so I have to move the whole stuff to the living room to able to do some video...
It will NOT be fast (az IEC bandwidht limits the speed), and there is no Jiffy in the Plus/4, C64 and even more not available at all for SFD1001 (as it is not IEC but IEEE488 drive), BUT 1MB capacity per disc... :-D


UPDATE
OK, I made some tests with 1-1 PREFORMATTED DD and HD discs, but they both failed to be formatted to 1MB size.
(maybe I made two mistakes: 1) I hooked it up via an 1571 2) tried to give a discname had numbers in it (I am not sure itf it is allowed or not) )

Because I have no "fresh" unformatted 5.25" discs, and not willing to destroy my working +4 and C64 discs (surprisingly they almost all perfectly work after 25 years of storage and one full WET damage, especially the 4pcs of 3Ms are pretty stable with fastloaders too, files written on them in 1989...).
As it is frequently mentioned, that DD discs are usually OK for fresh format (but preformatted and used could have some troubles), but Quad Destiny discs are the real ones. So I made a quick look.

Surprisingly NEW QD discs are still available :-O, although it has a certain price... Unfortunately shipping from UK costs almost the same as the discs themselves...
This UK post is really "royal" :-)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-sealed-box-of-10-x-5-25-floppy-disks-GoldStar-M-2DD-DS-QD-96TPI-/141863925572?hash=item2107bfb744:g:BrcAAOSweW5VF9Bd

----------------------------------------------------------
Update 2017 :-D
So it is a kind of shocking, that several years passed since my last comment, and my stuff still does not work.
What a lazy bastard I am! Duh...

As I got angry with myself, I put together the config. This is the beast floppy config (only 1551 could be even bigger or LP8250)
Drive8 is the 1571 and the IEEE2IEC automatically confgured as Drive 9.
SFD-1001 reacts directly connected to C64, and in daisy chain too.


As you may know from my old post, the IEEE2IEC converter (that very small converter cable based on two ICs) made for C64.
So it takes the 5V from the Joystick port via a "pass-through" adater, makes the Joystick port still available.

As I learned since then from Levente, that the 5V from the joy goes directly to the TED, and big current may kill it, I decided I keep trying with my C64c to close out possible failure modes and to not kill my TED.

Future solution for Plus/4:
-I will add a second 5V input too, by adding a User Port connector. That will work with both C64 and Plus/4, even with VIC-20
-To make it C16/C64/Plus/4/VIC-20/C116 compatible would better to use the datasette port, (including the C2N to DIN adapter) but then the tape will be lost as a device...

What was done?
-Last weekend I opened up the SFD-1001. (It means Single Floppy Drive, as the LP8250 was the Dual Floppy Drive. so it is not Supper Floppy drive)
1) Bought some pure (ehm, only 67% allowed here) alcohol in the apotheke, and cleaned both disc heads.
It is not as straightforward as in 1541, so cannot easily open up a plastic and reach the head. Hopefully no harm done
2) To reach the heads, I had to remove the main PCB, I checked the capacitors and the PCB for leak cap, but no sign.
3) Removed dirt from inner metal surfaces with air and some very slighly wet buds
4) Removed dirt/grease from the IC legs with very slighly alcohol+buds to prevent some data loss (juts a hypothesis)

When I switch on the drive, it behaves as it should stop spinning, reacts when C64 switched on and goes to wait state.

It DOES react well to the commands. The "Device9 is present", so the IEE2IEC communicates properly with the drive, without error signals on the LED.
It starts Formatting and try to read Directory (in the way C64 does, eh)
So the communication works well with the IEEE Floppy drive.

I tested:
DS DD 48TPI, DS DD 96TPI RH and a PC 1.2MB DS HD floppy discs. (the last one just to try again)
All were preformatted, as I have no fresh, unformatted disc. I have no Quad Destiny disc yet, the shipment price was horrible

All got a Format (header) command, and only PC 1.2MB floppy gave error message.
-The DD 96TPI took longer,
-The DD 48TPI finished very fast (maybe 20 seconds). Not a good sign...
-None of them is OK readible yet with LOAD"$",9. :-(



Now coming the testing and forum reading.
I have some ideas will be tested in next weeks:
1) Open up the drive and will check if really properly moves inside

2) Initiate the head. Maybe it just lost the track where is it

2) Stucked head: I will open up again and move the head manually a little back and forth.
I am considering to use a fine WD-40 lithium on the metal rail, but I am not sure, if it does not make the plastic too britte?
Maybe I will stuck to the traditional fine synthetic silicon oil.

3) Misaligned heads: the early Commodore drives were prone to misalign their head at Track 0 due to repeated knowcking to the hard stopper.
(it was later changed to a softer one, I will do so, too. 1571 has a optosensor)
As for that one the 1541 had a special software, I suppose I will be out of luck in case this is the failure

4) If the aboves do not help, will clean the connectors, and check again IC legs and with a 30x magnifier glass for loose contact/bad soldering

5) Certainly try to get some 48TPI, Soft Sectored unformatted NEW discs. This is what the manual states, nothing about QD / Quad Density!
I thought it will be a big challenge... High Capacity disc is NOK.
If only Quad Density floppies may fulfill this requirment, that I should buy a box of them, but will be hard to find...

But NO. It took 10 minutes to find one new box of SS, QD 5.25" from UK:-) It was a quick decision to buy it.
Just 18Ł with postage, hopfully will work after head adjustment.

6) Please let me know, if you have any other ideas.

I am confident that my C64's IEC works perfectly (loaded games with 1571) and the IEEE2IEC interface also seems properly works, but the SFD-1001 drive need some mechanical finetuning to work properly.

It is a rather rare device, mine has a serial number of #37xx, but I have never read about an SFD-1001 device had a serial number higher than #5000.
So most probably that 5000 pieces was the total production quantity from this Floppy drive (worldwide).
(MADE IN JAPAN! everything inside is Japanese, even the connectors are made by Honda :- ) )



UPDATE 2017 JULY

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

So after cleaning the SFD1001 inside out (reading heads, IC legs, and exchanged an broken inner (simple) cable and bough a box of new DD, Quad Density 96TPI discs, it WORKS!
4132 BLOCKS FREE !!!

Today photos:
the setup (sorry for the mess, living room with 2 kids :-) )


Cables. 1571 goes into C64, SDF1001 connected to 1571 daisy chain with the IEC2IEE interface. It gets the current from C64 via Joy port


SFD-1001 is just formatting


The fresh discs




Succesfully deleted a damaged file:



Posted By

RobertB
on 2017-07-11
02:00:49
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

MMS wrote:

> ...a rather rare device, mine has a serial number of #37xx, but I have never read about an
> SFD-1001 device had a serial number higher than #5000.

I'm looking at two SFD-1001's sitting next to me -- one has a serial number of GA1 002923 and the other has GA1 012298.

> ...it WORKS!

Congratulations!

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
July 29-30 Commodore Vegas Expo v13 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex

Posted By

siz
on 2017-07-11
02:56:22
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

I'm really glad that you could revive the drive. I felt really bad that it did not work despite the fact that I've tested it with my ZoomFloppy before sending it to you. :/

Posted By

MMS
on 2017-07-13
15:54:38
 Re: Rare Commodore SFD1001 disk drive

UPDATE on the IEC2IEEE interface + SDF-1001 disc format

The emulation and handling of the SFD-1001 (or Commodore 8050 in big house or 8250) discs an be done with Dirmaster.
It can create and edit the *.D82 double sided discs has this 1MB size. (4133 blocks)

SFD-1001 is a single drive and small housing version of the 8250 huge beast. The IEC2IEEE can handle those big guys too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_8050
http://www.commodore.ca/manuals/commodore_1541_4040_8050_8250_comparison.htm

There are some misconcept s on the intrnet. The 8520 double sided disc capacity is only 1MB, and the 8050's sindle side is 0.5 MB.
The 8250 has the capacity of 2MB, but not because of double sided discs, but because it has two parellel drives.

Currently only the VICE supports D80 and D82 disc formats, as previously there was no card or interface to manage IEEE488 devices on Plus/4.
If I get some authorization, I will create a PDF our of NLQ's documentation, and upload it to the Hardware section with next to the Interface's picture
(I may open the housing to show the parts, as on NLQs original page).

This weekend I plan to copy from 1571 to SFD-1001 a bigger (maybe 200block) file and will test the loading speed VS 1571 or 1541/II on the same IEC bus.
Would be surprising if any speed difference is there, but who knows?

Test will still happen on a C64, as the userport connector not soldered yet.
Actually I am thinking, that the Cassette port (especially a "through" connector) would be better for the 264 series (would become compatible with the C16 and C116 too)
I am not brave enough to touch the Expansion port :-)



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