Posted By
Csio
on 2010-09-23
14:39:04
|  Re: SID-card scheme?
Okay, here is the newest news from the newsid.
Please God who lives in Canada, please make a miracle again and translate it at just a minute, thanks! 
I am with the > mark, so just read carefully:
> kérések angolul, me ostoba vagyok:
Meglatjuk, mennyit ertek beloluk...
> - compatible with Solder's one and it works with the 8580 SID
Igen, alapbol a Solder's fele kartyaval probalok full kompatibilis maradni,
minden extra kapcsolhato.
> - socket for SID
Ofkoz. DE! Azt a forumba azert tisztazni kellene, hogy EN NEM FOGOK TUDNI a
kartyahoz SID CSIPET ADNI!!! Ez legyen tiszta mindenki elott, meg mielott
valaki felreerti!
> - Questions for BSZ:
> Is it agreed on to use the new SID? That should be the case if it's
> compatible with Solder's SID-Card. Also otherwise it would need to support
> two voltages right? (Leave alone the problems an old SID would cause by
> drawing too much power - if remember correctly, Bionic reported this).
Egyelore a terv a 8580-as SID hasznalata, de van egy regi 6581-em is, meg
fogom merni hogy mi mennyi. Ezek alapjan tudom majd eldonteni, hogy menni
fog-e mindket fajta SID szupportalasa, ez meg keplekeny. (Errol a tul nagy
aramfelvetelrol hallottam mar, de konkret ertekeket nem tudok, majd me'rek.)
> Will there be a "sample playback via $d418"-fix?
Ezt a dolgot hanyagolnam, majd kifejtem kesobb hogy miert.
> Will there be some kind of line-out (3,5mm) socket on the board?
Hogy lesz-e 3.5mm-es jack aljzat hangkimenetnek? Igen, tervben van. (Ugyanis
van olyan eset, amikor nem akarod a TED hanggal egyutt hallani a SID hangjat,
ezert ezt mindenkeppen meg kell csinalnom... Ez leginkabb a Legacy-C64-es
modban erdekes.)
> - BTW another feature is to keep in mind. Solder at time created a sort of
> "protection" for joys ports (*), because the plug/unplug operations could
> damage the uP. You can contact him and if agree add this circuit to the
> card.
Errol azert kellene tudni, hogy mit is kell konkretan vedeni? Mi "bantodik"
ki/bedugaskor? Ezt azert jo lenne tudni, mondjuk par otletem nekem is van, de
lehet hogy olyanba szaladt bele, amire nem is gondolok... (Viszont en a
sajat angol-nem-tudasommal nem vennem fel vele a kapcsolatot, egni nem
akarok, hehe...)
> - I don't care too much about the "C64 legacy mode" (some demos have the
> C64 player routines modified, too, so it won't work always).
Azok a demok termeszetesen nem fognak szolni / nem fognak JOL szolni,
amiknel bele van turva az eredeti C64-es lejatszo kodba, evvel nem lehet mit
csinalni. En annakidejen azert tul sok ilyennel nem talalkoztam (az is igaz,
hogy volt ilyen...), de "ezvan".
> Therefore,
> I'm wondering if the C64-clock mode will work with $fd40/$fe80, too?
Ha ezt az eredeti C64 clock modot bekapcsolod, akkor termeszetesen az
$FD40/$FE80 cimeken is ugyanazon a modon fog menni a dolog, azt
kulonvalasztani nem lehet. (Es igen, ekkor is elerheto a $D400-as cim mellett
$FD40/$FE80-on is, csak nem lehet a regisztereit olvasni.) De ez ugyse gond,
mert ha kell a legacy-C64 mod, akkor az adott program nem hasznalja az
$FD40/$FE80-as cimen levo SID-et ugyse (azert kell a $D400-as eleres
ugye...), ha meg nem kell, nem kapcsolod be. Esetleg akkor lehet problemas a
dolog, ha egy sok partbol allo demot nezel, amiben alapbol TED-en szolnak a
SID-es muzsikak (Itt jon jol a Legacy-C64 uzemmod) viszont van 1-2 olyan
part, ahol SID-kartyan szolna CSAK a zene, de Plus/4-es frekvencias
uzemmoddal. De ez nem gondolnam, hogy tul sok esetben okoz problemat.
> - complete preservation of the well-established standard, which has to be
> a "standard", switchable clock, smart addons.
Na, ezt a mondatot nem ertem egyatalan...
> - I really would like if the card would be compatible to Solder's card
> (joyport/readable registers) even if there aren't that many programs using
> this feature. Anything creating a new "standard" would be kinda counter
> productive.
Mivel "many program" hasznalja a Joy-portot meg a readable regisztereket,
ezert nem lesz az eleresuk mashogy megoldva; marad a Solder kompatibilis
megoldas. Csak en errol eddig nem tudtam. (Marmint hogy EGYATALAN VAN olyan
program, AMI HASZNALJA.) Ugyhogy nem lesz 'new "standard"' a regiszterek
eleresere...
> Also, I'd prefer to go for the classic $fd40 (and $fe80) registers. These
> are those that ppl have been using in all SID-card productions so far.
> Same for readable registers... True 1351 support is only possible with
> them.
A Solder fele mukodes lesz az alapallapot, ettol ne feljen senki... (Ez a
joy-port nem is gondoltam volna, hogy ekkora ossznepi felhaborodast kelt.
Pedig a DSUB9-es csatlakozot le is akartam hagyni a nyakrol (mert tul
nagy...), egy kisebb meretu IDC10-est akartam a helyere rakni, amit egy
egyszeru kabellel at lehet forditani a megfelelo formara. De ezekutan ezt azt
hiszem meg atgondolom... )
> About the clock: Nice to have the original C64 clock but that should be
> an extra (maybe set via jumper/switch) and not mandatory. Even if the old
> SID card "sounded" differently compared to the native C64 tune. Original
> compositions (e.g. using TLC's sidwinder) can take care of this anyway
Ezt a Legacy C64 uzemmodot valami regiszterrel lehet majd bekapcsolni
szoftverbol, nem kell jumperolgatni semmit sehova. (Vagyis majd lehet hogy
kell, de nem ezert.) Ha nem ugyanaz az alapfreki, persze hogy nem fog
ugyanugy szolni, ez termeszetes...
> Also another important issue is sample output via $d418 when using a new
> SID. Solder's card used the "standard" fix to make this possible. But this
> introduces some noise, too. Are there better ways to do this?
Na, ezt a $D418-as fixet kihagyom a francba. (Mar bocsanat.) Ugyanis ennek
azon kivul hogy elcseszi a cucc munkapontjat, meg bevisz egy csomo zajt, mas
ertelme nincs. Ha mar Plus/4: A SID-bol jojjon a SID muzsika, a TED-bol meg
johet melle a DIGI. Nem? Szoval a "better way" az lesz, hogy ez ki lesz
hagyva.
> The (headphone) amp on Solder's card I could do without. Active desktop
> speakers are common these days and I rather have a un-noisy line-out than
> a noisy headphone amp.
Valami erosito lesz a kimeneten, de a hangminosegre en is haklis vagyok,
ugyogy az olyan lesz, ami komoly zajt nem fog belevinni a hangba. (Legalabbis
olyan nagysagrendut nem, mint amennyire a SID maga zajos.) Ez a terv, meg
keplekeny, majd kiserletezek vele. De a Solder-fele SID kartya kapcsolasi
rajzan en nem latok extra erositot a kimeneten, csak egy egyszeru
tranzisztoros cuccot, de az azert eleg fapad. (Meg legalabb a zajos +5V-os
taprol jar. Az igy ebben a formaban, mindenfele szures nelkul valoban zajos.)
> Kb. ennyi, különböző emberektől, más időpontokban... csak mazsolázgass!!!
Azert olyan nagy dolgok nem merultek fel, amik elmeszelnek a projectet,
ennek orvendek.
> Mikó lesz kész a proto?
Hehe... A hetvegen nekiallok, de hogy meddig jutok, az meg kerdeses. Kell
majd par alkatreszt rendelnem is a cucchoz, de hogy addig mikor jutok el, az
(megint) jo kerdes. Majd beszamolok mindenkeppen!
> Te nem akarsz postolni a forumban, me má szerintem a Luca azt hiszi, hogy
> megint valami Csio-szopatás van csak a háttérben
Ahhoz sajnos igen halvany az angolom, de ezt a levelet kirakhatod,
hatha "VALAKI" leforditja.
> JÓ MUNKÁT A KÁRTYÁHOZ - és a nagybetű használata nem célzás volt
Remelem nem lesz tul nagy. Az nagyon nem erne meg...
Okay, thats all.
Has anybody got new questions?
Just load here!
| Re: SID-card scheme?
Okay, here is the newest news from the newsid.
Please God who lives in Canada, please make a miracle again and translate it at just a minute, thanks!
I am with the > mark, so just read carefully:
> Questions in English
We'll see how much of it I can understand...
> - compatible with Solder's one and it works with the 8580 SID
Yes, by default I'll try to make it fully compabible with Solder's card, everything extra will be optional.
> - socket for SID
Of course. BUT! On the forum we should clear up that I CANNOT GIVE SID CHIPS for the cards! This should be clear for everyone, before there's a misunderstanding.
> - Questions for BSZ:
> Is it agreed on to use the new SID? That should be the case if it's
> compatible with Solder's SID-Card. Also otherwise it would need to support
> two voltages right? (Leave alone the problems an old SID would cause by
> drawing too much power - if remember correctly, Bionic reported this).
So far the plan is to use the 8580 SID, but I have an old 6581 as well, I'll see what's what.
Based on that I'll be able to see if supporting both is possible, this is undecided. (I've heard about the SID drawing too much power, but I don't know the exact values, I'll measure it.)
> Will there be a "sample playback via $d418"-fix?
I'd rather not do this, I'll explain why later.
> Will there be some kind of line-out (3,5mm) socket on the board?
Will there be a 3.5mm jack for audio output? Yes, it's planned. (Since in some cases, you don't want to hear the TED, so I want to do this for sure. It's mostly interesting for the Legacy C64 mode.)
> - BTW another feature is to keep in mind. Solder at time created a sort of
> "protection" for joys ports (*), because the plug/unplug operations could
> damage the uP. You can contact him and if agree add this circuit to the
> card.
Regarding this, we should know exactly what needs to be protected? What "suffers" during plug/unplug?
I have some good ideas, but maybe he's talking about stuff I haven't even thought of (though with my English I'd rather not contact him, I don't want to be embarrassed)
> - I don't care too much about the "C64 legacy mode" (some demos have the
> C64 player routines modified, too, so it won't work always).
Those demos which modify the original C64 player code will not play or not play well. I haven't seen too many demos that do this, but they do exists. Nothing can be done.
> Therefore,
> I'm wondering if the C64-clock mode will work with $fd40/$fe80, too?
If you turn on the original C64 clock mode, then naturally $FD40/$FE80 will both work, this cannot be separated.
(And yes, even then it's available on $FD40/$FE80 besides $D400, but you can't read the registers.)
But this is not a problem, because if you need the Legacy C64 mode, then those programs don't use the $FD40/$FE80 addresses (that's why we need the $D400 access), and if you do need it, then you don't turn that mode on.
Maybe there could be a problem if there's a demo with many parts, in which the SID musics play on TED by default (this is when the Legacy mode will come in handy) but there's a few parts, where the music is SID card ONLY, in Plus/4 frequency mode. Though I don't think this problem would come up in many cases.
> - complete preservation of the well-established standard, which has to be
> a "standard", switchable clock, smart addons.
Well, this sentence I don't understand at all...
> - I really would like if the card would be compatible to Solder's card
> (joyport/readable registers) even if there aren't that many programs using
> this feature. Anything creating a new "standard" would be kinda counter
> productive.
Because "many programs" use the joy ports and the readable registers, their access will not be solved in a different way; the Solder compatible solution will remain.
It's just that I didn't know this. (That is, I didn't know there's ANY program that USES THIS). So there won't be a "new standard" for reading the registers...
> Also, I'd prefer to go for the classic $fd40 (and $fe80) registers. These
> are those that ppl have been using in all SID-card productions so far.
> Same for readable registers... True 1351 support is only possible with
> them.
Solder's mode will be the default, you don't have to worry... (I wouldn't have imagined that the joy port will cause such an upheaval. I wanted to leave off the DSUB9 connector (because it's too big) and I wanted to use the smaller IDC10 instead, which can be converted with a simple cable. But after this, I'll have to think some things over.)
> About the clock: Nice to have the original C64 clock but that should be
> an extra (maybe set via jumper/switch) and not mandatory. Even if the old
> SID card "sounded" differently compared to the native C64 tune. Original
> compositions (e.g. using TLC's sidwinder) can take care of this anyway
You'll be able to turn on the Legacy C64 mode with a register, so you won't have to use jumpers at all.
(Well, maybe you'll need them, but not for this.)
If the base frequency is not the same, it won't sound the same, that's natural...
> Also another important issue is sample output via $d418 when using a new
> SID. Solder's card used the "standard" fix to make this possible. But this
> introduces some noise, too. Are there better ways to do this?
Well, I'd rather take the $D418 fix and shove it. (Sorry about that.) Since besides screwing up the stuff's working point(?), and adding noise, it doesn't do much else.
If it's Plus/4: let the SID play SID music, the TED play DIGI. Nay? So the "better way" will be to leave this out.
> The (headphone) amp on Solder's card I could do without. Active desktop
> speakers are common these days and I rather have a un-noisy line-out than
> a noisy headphone amp.
There will be some kind of amplifier on the sound output, but I pay close attention to the sound quality, so it will be something that won't add much noise.
(At least not the same scale as the SID's own noise.)
This is the plan, though it can change, I'll play around with it.
Though on Solder's SID card I didn't see an extra amplifier on the output, only some simple transistor stuff, and that's pretty basic.
(And at least it uses the noisy +5V power source. This way, without any kind of filter it really is noisy.)
> Well, that's about it, from different people, different times... Have fun with it!
Well, there were no showstoppers, so I'm happy about that.
> When will the prototype be ready?
Haha... I'll start this weekend, how far I can get remains to be seen. I need some more parts ordered, but when I can get there is another good question.
I'll keep you updated though!
> Do you want to post on the forum? Luca thinks that this is all a big Csio-joke
Unfortunately my English is weak, but you can put this email up, maybe "SOMEBODY" will translate it.
> GOOD LUCK WITH THE CARD - and the usage of caps wasn't a hint
I hope it won't be too big. That wouldn't be worth it...
Okay, thats all.
Has anybody got new questions?
Just load here!
|
