| Posted By
SVS
on 2008-12-26
07:14:20
 |  Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
The welcome screen features a "(NEW) RAVEN" production or crack... then: what is the real history of this great piece of SW? Who did code it? Was an official commercial release?
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-12-27
09:46:56
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
The Austrospeed Compiler was a commercial release. The cracked version by "The Raven" is indeed a cracked one. I'm not sure but I think the original version required a dongle cartridge to work.
I have seen ads for the compiler in 64er Magazine and if I remember correctly it was rather expensive, at least for a teenager like me back in the 80s.
Are BASIC programs much faster when you compile them? I remember one graphic demo which was compiled. It drew a Ferrari and you could still watch it being drawn. I think the normal BASIC was not much slower.
Is there some way to decompile programs?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-12-28
09:46:20
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
The speed increase of programs will vary greatly depending on what they do. I don't think any of us has done any formal speed testing, although this is a great idea.
Especially for graphics commands it's not going to give any speedup: it will still call exactly the same routines as normal BASIC would call. What will be faster is the interpretation of the parameters and making the call itself.
If they implemented a more optimized line drawing routine, it would be possible to gain a lot of speed increase (at the cost of memory). Also, this is off topic to AustroSpeed but mentioned the Ferrari drawing program it brought back memories... Drawing circles can be made much faster by drawing geometric shapes with many sides. Try these two:
CIRCLE,160,100,100
CIRCLE,160,100,100,,,,,20
The second is a lot faster and still resembles a circle.
As for decompiling programs, I'm certain it is possible. However, for one you would probably not get back exactly the same BASIC program, there would probably be slight differences. Second, I don't think there's a decompiler in existence.
Most importantly: the answer to SVS' question is the magazine you mentioned. Do you think you could find that ad somewhere? That's exactly what we're looking for: confirmation that this was a commercial release (although your unsubstantiated claim is good enough for me).
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-12-28
11:33:08
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
I haven't kept all my magazines from the old days  But some are in the attic at my parents' house. We have just been there the other day but we visit often. I will look for that ad then.
I googled a bit and in some forums for the C64 they said that Austrospeed for the C64 is public domain but I'm not sure about that. I think only a magazine ad or something like that can prove it and I try to help with this if I can.
This is the Ferrari Demo I was talking about. http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Ferrari
And I knew that faster circle routine  Because I can't program machine language I collected all sorts of BASIC tricks to make things faster. Sometimes they had tips like that in 64er magazine usually for the C64 or C128 but lots of those things worked on C16 too.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2008-12-29
03:01:41
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Well, I'm currently using Austrospeed. But since this (very good) program has some bugs, I need some additional info. The best should be able to contact The Raven or other informated ppl, or maybe Jim Hehl.
Regarding the Decompiler: yes it exists for the C64 version, but any of the 2 versions I found was able to decompile the AustroSpeed for +4 (Austrospeed itself was compiled).
The speed of compiled prgs is good in my opinion, expecially if you have optimized for Austrospeed the source (for example using integer variables inside FOR..NEXT). The graphic speed, as told by Csabo, has no increasing.
I should appreciate any further post referring to this argument, because my current project is "stopped" by this problem :-/
Thanx!
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-06
22:55:35
 | Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
SVS,
are you saying that those C64 decompilers CAN recompile the programs that were compiled on plus/4? Or do you mean "They can't recompille..."?
I remember trying a recompiler on plus/4 which was probably just a "converted" C64 one. It didn't work and I suspected that it was due to the different basic. Could be a different reason.
That the Austrospeed Compiler is compiled itself seems logically. Isn't this called "bootstrapping" (a compiler written in the language that it compiles)?
In some forums ppl claimed that it (the C64 version) is public domain. However, I doubt that for various reasons. "The Raven" was a cracker. If he had written the compiler, he would have said so somewhere, don't you think? Furthermore, it's a program with history: There have been various Austro Compilers on several platforms. I know that there's an AustroComp for VIC/VC20 and for C64. AustroSpeed exists on C64, too.
I'm not sure if I have ever seen an ad for it, though. Has Rüdiger commented on this one? I think he knows almost any commercial release
The name Austro kinda suggests Austrian origin... So if it was indeed a commercial release there should be some evidence in the magazines published in German speaking countries.
What are the issues with AustroSpeed? Maybe we can help you to create a workaround.
What about other compilers?
I have played a bit with the MICRO BASIC COMPILER years ago. It has a very limited Basic vocabulary and it can't really be used to speed up existing programs. Nevertheless, if you consider the limitations while programming (and use lots of peeks and pokes) it's somewhat ok. Though, after checking the resulting code I was a bit disappointed how complicated it was done. And if you use lots of pokes, it's probably easier to code in machine language right away.
I have seen another "compiler" but that was Polish or Hungarian and I didn't have any docs for.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-06
23:36:23
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
This is obviously a recompiler for AustroComp and AustroSpeed.
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Recompiler
Though, it's just recompiling compiled C64 programs. Might help to understand the structure of compiled programs, though.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-07
02:30:34
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
I just browsed through some magazines as has been suggested and in one ad section I noticed this:
"64'er" 10/1987, p. 164
an ad by SAS-BERND System- und Anwendersoftware
"...
AUSTRO-COMP C128 190,- DM
Austrospeed C64 129,- DM
..."
Doesn't say anything about the plus/4 version but at least it shows that other AustroWhatever compilers have been commercially released.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-01-07
07:40:15
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Hello Chicken,
many thanx for all the info.
What I mean is that any of the Austro decompilers (for C64) is able to decompile an Austro+4 compiled file. All those I used do claim that the header is unknown, then they nor start the process.
I need to decompile Austro+4 itself, because I've found some bugs that affect the use of this *great* program. One of them (TRAP) is stopping my current project because I cannot manage possible overflow errors after a calculus since compiled TRAP seems to destroy the GOSUBs stack.
I agree that the name suggests Austrian provenance, and its language was German (before I made the English version). Could this help to find its author/converter? If one (Raven?) made the conversion from C64 version, I think his knowledge of AustroSpeed+4 inside should be very precious for us!
I know MICRO COMPILER and time ago I've studied it and started to implement. I've suspended that project but I remember that I had inserted new features regarding the internal variables (Micro Compiler manages A...Z variables), maybe cross-exchange between BASIC and MICRO COMP. Are you interested?
Waiting for your interesting reply,
ciao
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-08
20:49:36
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Yeah, something with TRAP is buggy. I noticed that, when I did a better version of SOCCER BOSS. (Csabo and TLC, have I shown that one to you in Budapest 2007? With the crappy blue title pic Still unreleased  ). I don't remember how I worked around it because there were some other issues (Soccer Boss had a bug which sometimes causes hang ups).
Can't you check all parameters before to make sure that those errors won't happen? I think that's much easier than waiting for someone to come up with a decompiler.
Yes, MICRO BASIC COMP only handles integer variables (A-Z). I'm not sure if it's worth spending (too) much time with it. On the one hand, AustroSpeed seems to be the better way to go. On the other hand, it's always fun to play with very limited tools and make them do something new.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-01-09
09:52:03
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
The TRAP bug inside Austrospeed seems to happen when an error is found (and TRAP jumps to their routine). After exiting from trap routine (by TRAP or RESUME), the next RETURN causes a crash (claiming there is no previous GOSUB even if indeed there was).
Any parameter seems to affect this behavior :-/
Regarding the MICRO COMPILER: by my adds, now you can use standard variables that do pass their vaues to MC variables. This allow external calculus.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-20
14:23:51
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
I checked the code of "SOCCER BOSS+"...
No need for TRAP in the compiled version so I just got rid of it
Btw... Masterbase (which was published in 1988) is compiled with Austrospeed. So Austrospeed is probably from 1987 or even earlier.
I'll continue to check some old magazines!
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-10
09:09:22
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Finally...
Compute mit - Sonderheft 3/87, p. 45, an ad by "Soft/Hardware Versandhandel R. Lindenschmidt"
"Austro-Speed-Compiler Disk 149 DM"
So it is a commercial release.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-02-10
09:27:44
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Then: any volunteers to convert Decompiler? (pleeease )
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-10
09:55:01
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Guess what I found in the follow-up issue
Compute mit - Sonderheft 4/87, pp. 4-5
A review of the Austrospeed-Compiler
Ozymandias was right, the Compiler came with a userport cartridge (some copy protection). Though, the program itself was distributed on a disk (116 blocks).
This means that the "The Raven" version is a "real" crack which got rid of the dongle check.
The screen shot in the article shows "V850506".
It DOES mention some limitations with TRAP and RESUME. However, there are not details listed. The manual is the C 64 version one with an extra sheet explaining the differences of the plus/4 version.
The "RESUME complete" option creates 5-10% slower P-Code compared to the "RESUME line number" option. Furthermore, the resulting code is about 20% longer.
"RESUME line number" clears all GOSUB addresses and closes all FOR ... NEXT loops.
"RESUME complete" does NOT clear the stack pointer.
GRAPHIC CLR is not clearing the RAM (occupied by the hires screen) instead it's just a GRAPHIC 0.
The article notes that embedded MC routines (in DATA lines) caused problems in some test.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-02-10
10:22:04
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Wow, amazing info there, we have to update our database accordingly. I looked at the Compute Mit issues, and it's a bit confusing... There's already a Compute Mit 3/87, but it doesn't look like a "Sonderheft" (= Special Edition). Were there two issues every month, one regular and one special?
We need someone to step up and take ownership of that part (like I did with CoV: most issues are in, linked to programs, lots of scans and page text is up. More is needed, for sure, but it's a start).
Also, I do remember seeing "The (new) Raven" text, but it's not in the current crack we have on the site, or on rulez. What's up with that?
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-10
11:12:21
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
There was a monthly "Compute mit" which covered VC 20, C16, C 64 and Schneider (Armstrad) CPC. This magazine's cover was printed on the same (newspaper like) paper as the magazine itself and only had red as an extra color.
The "Sonderheft" (actually it should be Sonderausgabe -> SA) was a bi-monthly C 16 only magazine, six issues (SA 1-6/198x) every year. This one had a 4C (CMYK) cover on somewhat glossy paper. So if you see a colorful cover, it's the special edition.
The publishing house ceased publishing the monthly "Compute mit" at the end of 1987 or so (can't check that right now) but went on with the special edition (still bi-monthly). The C 16 special edition was discontinued without a warning at the end of 1989. Still remember asking for it for the next 3 months
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-02-11
02:34:56
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Chicken: when you refer to RESUME, do you mean the menu choice, or the Basic command one?
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-11
04:23:13
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
SVS,
my comments refered to the menu options (1 - 3 RESUME with linenumber, 4 - 6 RESUME complete). Nevertherless, these relate to the BASIC command. So if you choose 1 - 3 you can only use RESUME with a linenumber (a variable is not allowed), if you choose 4 - 6, RESUME works "globally".
I guess our next goal should be to find that extra sheet with plus/4 instructions.
About "Compute mit"...
After checking some old issues it looks like during the first years the C 16 "Sonderheft" was not published bi-monthly but quarterly or even only 3 times a year. I'll try to find out about that.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-11
15:31:20
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
64'er 12/1988, p.148
"
Austrospeed +4 129,- DM
Austro-Comp C128 + Austrospeed C-64 190,- DM
Austro-Comp C-64 + Austrospeed C-64 129,- DM
...
DIGIMAT
Arbeitergasse 48,
A-1050 Wien
"
FINALLY Unfortunately, Digimat is gone
The guy who owns www.digimat.at is too young.
Csabo,
the "English" Version by SVS here is the "THE (NEW) RAVEN" one, at least the screen shot says so.
SVS,
I never needed a wedge to run the compiled programs without the disk in drive. Are you sure that this was required by the programs compiled with the "cracked" version?
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-02-12
02:22:43
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Chicken:
[CRACK]
The crack-wedge has to be loaded before running all the compiled programs, except the following cases:
1) You've just compiled the file, then the wedge still resides in memory;
2) You runs a simple/brief program with only a few statements that do not require cracking.
If you modify the compiled file with my Austro-conv, the running of program is preceeded by the self-loading in memory of the wedge.
[RESUME]
I've read on the Jim Hehl manual for Austrospeed that RESUME options in menu are, following his opinion, only the way compiler manages the compiling-errors. One way will stop compiling process when found an error, the second shows line-number of error and then continues.
Have you any further info?
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-12
09:23:47
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
SVS:
Maybe there are different versions of the crack around. I have never used the wedge and even complex compiled programs (e.g. my "Soccer Boss+" project) run fine without the wedge.
About the menu options...
The info I posted came from the review in "Compute mit". It sounded like they tested it thoroughly. You could test it yourself with an intentional bug and then check both compiling options.
Also, you could check (the BASIC command) RESUME with a line number and a global RESUME and see if it compiles the way it should (according to the review).
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-13
08:50:23
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
SVS...
You could also check Zauberland. It was compiled with the version I had and without using your wedge. I'm really puzzled by this because I'm sure you have experienced programs that didn't run without the wedge.
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-02-20
10:35:27
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
Chicken:
It seems that "your" version is different than "mine". Furthermore I can add that I've tried to compile with "RESUME COMPLETE" option: well it always ends with error (gosub without error in 65535).
Then, could be an idea if you kindly send me your version
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Posted By
SVS
on 2009-02-25
10:51:50
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
@Chicken:
my comments refered to the menu options (1 - 3 RESUME with linenumber, 4 - 6 RESUME complete). Nevertherless, these relate to the BASIC command. So if you choose 1 - 3 you can only use RESUME with a linenumber (a variable is not allowed), if you choose 4 - 6, RESUME works "globally".
I've made some tests with large-source programs. The Resume(4-6) option produces a larger compiled file. When executed, the line where RESUME line-n resides, always causes a Yape hang (not a crash).
With a small source (10 lines), after compiling the TRAP / RESUME works aswell.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-02-25
13:58:59
| Re: Austrospeed for Plus4 freeware?
SVS,
have you tried just "RESUME" without a line number/variable?
With the small source, have you used options (4-6)? Or did it work with (1-3), too? (The latter one shouldn't be possible according to the review in "Compute mit".
I'll get back to you about this when I have found my disk.
But at least, the review was right in saying options 4-6 produce larger files. Thanks for testing and confirming this!
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