Posted By
Mika73
on 2008-11-17
11:39:47
|  Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Is there list of software that is at disc format for Plus/4?
I have seen mostly tapes and some cartridges.
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-11-17
11:46:06
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Most commercial games from the 80s came on tapes, a few exceptions are the Infocom adventures and some Kingsoft releases. But I think everything is available on disk or disk images nowadays. Or a you looking for original releases?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-11-17
13:14:25
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
This is unfortunately a shortcoming of the site: there is no single page that lists all the programs that have a disk image as a download link. If I had the time I would make a proper page... But for now, if you really need it, I could just run a query against the DB and give you the results.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-17
14:19:33
 | Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Hm, is it really important? Just asking. With the Star Commander I can put any downloaded PRG file into aD64 image any time.
If you check a specific Game (or just looking to the most liked Top 50 games), you will find the later releases all came on disc, maybe 50% of them. I think -but maybe I just do not see your view- than even in 64K programmers could make great stuff, like Dizzy series, Mercenary, Head Over Heels, Revs, just to mention some, and those are really great games.
Disc games became more common on Plus/4 after 1988 when Pigmy and TCFS started to work hard on new releases (Pigmy on converts, TCFS is on self-written games).
As the disc was media of most C64 releases, it became available on plus/4 also, due to the fact, mostly they were just ported. Then lot of guys started to do it, when saw, that Pigmy was succesfully did dozens of great releases, just to mention Bard's Tale 3. (at that time it was evident, that no big SW-house would spend any energy on the plus/4 releases, though the porting would be MUCH easier than to Spektrum (Pigmy's statement from 1990). but while in the Spektrum there was still some market (esp UK market), the German and Hungarian hackers made any new Plus/4 release available in weeks for the massess--> no sales at all --> no profit --> no interest).
As I see it...
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-11-17
14:40:58
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
I don't think the plus/4 market died because of crackers. It died because of other more popular platforms (Amiga, Atari ST). At least here in Germany. There was just not enough money to be made from producing software for the C16. Some of my friends had a C16 or a plus/4 and they all longed for Software. Even if it was some crappy game, we bought it. When that first wave of software from Hungary hit us, the market here was already dead. Only Kingsoft continued publishing software for the C16.
I'm not sure if Mika73 asked for software that was published on disks or if he knows about all those games and demos that came from non-commercial sources. Many people simply don't know about this!
When I showed some demos and newer games to a friend he said he always thought there wasn't more to C16 than a bunch of small games loaded from tape. He stopped using his C116, unfortunately it's gone, when he got a C64 in 1987. The good times just started then.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-17
16:47:40
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
well, I do agree generally, but why they still developped in 1990 the eg. Golden Axe or Lotus to Sinclair Spectrum 48K? I do agree that Amiga and ST were very good at that time (just thinking, maybe it was the last nice moments of Amiga still) but there were several releases on C64 too. Porting to Plus/4 would needed only the realization of SW-sprites, eg Supremacy (later converted) was such a game could be SOOO easily ported by a few experts.
They even not thinking about that, while still in 1990/91 US gold and other big brands paid guys to port latest games to Spectrum (not to mention the omre limited graphics and certainly no sprites, makes the porting as a hell of a work)
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-17
16:58:14
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
some examples:
Grand Prix Circuit (Accolade)
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002116
Gunboat:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0009809
Golden Axe:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002081
Batman:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0000434
Lords of Chaos:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002930
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-17
17:03:38
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Holy sh*t!
I found even Sim City to Spectrum!
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0004509
RodLand 1991:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0000724
Rainbow Islands 1990:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0000724
OK, anyway I stop here. I think you can see my point. With much less efforts and manpower they could have these games ported to Plus/4 (especially as they had the sourcecode and full details of program) so the porting would take only few days per game.
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-11-17
17:28:30
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
The Spectrums had a strong standing in certain markets (UK and maybe Spain). I don't think that it was the better platform  But many of the UK companies grew up with the Spectrums. They had people who knew the Spectrums inside out. In contrast, support for the C16 was only half-hearted from the beginning. And most UK companies decided to go for the unextended C16 which made things more difficult. Still, not impossible as Udo Gertz showed us
I really think some companies just didn't know how relatively easy it would have been to convert some titles to the plus/4. It could have been done (see ACE). But there are many commericial ports of C64 (or other 8bit computers) games to the C16 which are really bad. Or not as good as they could have been.
I'm not saying there weren't talented programmers on the C16 but definetely not as many as on other platforms. Or they left too early for other platforms. At least when it comes to commercial releases. And then a couple of years later, some Hungarian coders come along and show how it should have been done. We can't turn back time but maybe this makes the C16 and its fans so special 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-11-18
00:14:38
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Just one quick thing to add: the spectrum had a Z80 processor running at 3.5 Mhz. It's simply better and faster than the Plussy's CPU. When I was young I used to think it should be very easy to convert spectrum games over, but in reality it's not possible, you'd have to rewrite the entire game.
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Posted By
indi
on 2008-11-18
03:45:50
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Its not as simple as the speed. The speccys speed might be faster but instructions take more TStates, and when you work it all out each CPU runs about the same speed (plussy prob slightly faster). However, the Z80 instruction set with its 16bit access and movable stack allows for some pretty cool tricks, on top of that the screen is much better allowing for sprites/pixels to be drawn quicker.
Speccys a great little machine, and was very easy to get into... not hardware, just poke the screen!
Course... Speccy users would kill for HW Sprites and character maps sometimes as well
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-11-18
09:17:17
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
There was a discussion a long time ago about the C128's Z80 and if it could do anything faster than the 8502 (even if clocked at 1 MHz). It was said, that that the Z80 won't do anything faster. Of course the C128 has totally different hardware from the Spectrum. This was just about inside the C128. The conclusion was if comparing CPU power, it's about the same level.
I saw some Spectrum games which I would have liked to have on C16. Of course the code would be a complete rewrite. But the game logic or ai wouldn't have to be reinvented. It's not only the technical side that makes a game enjoyable. I really respect the programmers who considered all possibilities and different user interactions. Or another example would be level design. There are some games that are technically good but the levels or tasks are boring or too repetitive. Or the first level is so hard already that you just get frustrated. I didn't know that Xadium had a second part
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-18
14:43:52
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Not to mention, that Spectrum had no special HW support friends like TED or SID, but this 3.5 MHz IC had to do all graphics tricks and music playback too.
Considering that, that 3.5MHz does not look too much.
BTW, if the plus/4's main CPU would run at 5MHz, would it change anything? more time on sprite emulation? or better SID emulation on the TED? I am just curious.
I saw SuperCPU power, but it is not only the CPU, but the 1MB memory and new graphics mode too...
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Posted By
Ozymandias
on 2008-11-18
15:09:49
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
I think software sprites could be handled much easier with a faster CPU. More time for masking etc. New graphics modes should be possible, too. This is just theory but the pixel clock is fixed to the CPU speed, isn't it? But I think we should focus on what we have
Does anyone here have a 1MB C16? I didn't know that it exists but I read about it yesterday. Is there any software that uses this? That's a problem sometimes. There was an 128kb expansion in Compute mit, a German magazine, many years ago. But there was just no software for it.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-18
15:24:55
| Re: Disc software/games for Plus/4 ?
Yeah, that was my convern too. There is GEOS on Plus/4, but not able to manage the memory extensions, as none of them become "official" one
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