| Posted By
SVS
on 2002-04-12
 |  Plus4 Canadian version ?!
Hi,
I'm in contact with a boy which has a Plus4 with a strange logo. He told me it was bought in Canada.
The machine runs as well, but the welcome screen does not show the message to enter 3+1.
If you hit the SYS command, then the 3+1 is started.
Maybe is existing an unknow verion of ROMs?
Does anybody know more info?
Bye
S\_/S
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2002-04-15
| Canadian Plus/4
If the logo is "+4=" (+4 and the = from the c= logo) then it's definately Canadian. I do not know why the Canadian units had a different logo than the rest of the world.
In the US, if a unit is sold and then returned to the manufacturer, it cannot be repaired and resold unless marked as such ("refurbished", "factory renewed", etc). The labeling laws were less strict in Canada at the time, so the +4= logo units MIGHT be factory refurbished machines..... or they COULD be the lost "264" units rebadged and sold.... that would explain why they don't say 3-Plus-1 on startup.
Do you have access to the machine to check the motherboard revision, the KERNAL revision, and the model/serial plate on the bottom?
I have seen exactly 2 of these weird-logo units for sale in two years.... haven't bought one 'cause the packaging is identical to the US packaging except the logo on the computer and the box. I presumed that since Canadian units' boxes look the same, the computer itself is also.... now I'll watch for another one. 
James C
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Posted By
MIK
on 2002-04-16
 | If you happen to find 1 on eBay
with a neat piccy so I can see it let me know 
Very intresting all this
Cheers.
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2002-04-17
| Found a pic!
I posted a quick page on my website to show the picture:
http://www.stormpages.com/plus4/canada.htm
This page is not linked to by the other pages yet. It's coming up on 1am here and I was in a bit of a hurry.
Note that the box is slightly different than the American box in that this one has a Canadian Maple Leaf on one corner and does not go into as much graphical detail about the built-in software. The box does clearly state that 'Everything you want out of a computer is built in to the Commodore +4 -- word processing -- database management -- spreadsheet -- graphics'.
I believe that the flip-side of the box has the same information in French, but do not have a picture handy to prove it.
As I stated in the previous message, these might be refurbished machines or rebadged 264's. I do not own one of these units to compare against my American unit.
I do know that occasionally I will see a European auction of a Plus/4 with black-cover manuals. These are American manuals, I believe. UK manuals are white with red at the bottom, and German manuals are obviously in German. There are two styles of American manuals: short, almost square in height-width; and tall, about the size of the UK manuals. The tall manuals are from refurbished machines, while the short manuals are from original production. This may help identify whether the chips inside are 7xxx series or 8xxx series (7501/8501 and 7360/8360 respectively). Do you have a black manual to see if it gives Commodore's UK or US/Canadian address on the back cover?
An interesting sidebar is that when the Plus/4 was released, the 1541 manual as well as packaging for the 803 printer carried Plus/4-style printing. An easy tip is the rainbow bars across the top -- if they are vertical bars like on the Plus/4, or horizontal bars like on the 64. The Plus/4 was discontinued when the 128 was introduced, so packaging and manuals here in the States were changed to white with upper-case blue 'COMMODORE' logo, and the page-turn corner showing the Commodore 'C=' logo, as can be seen on a 1570/1571 manual or box.
James C
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Posted By
MIK
on 2002-04-17
| Wow !!!
I can just about make it out and it's unreal
Yes I have the Black Plus4 Manual and also White/Blue ones....
Well on the Black one on the back it says:
Commodore Business Machines. Inc. - Computer Systems Division
1200 Wilson Drive. West Chester. PA 19380
This isn't a UK postal code.
Now I would of had one of the first Plus/4's with the 11 games,joystick and stuff to be released. Other machines I have bought since have had the White/Blue manuals. And my Integrated Software Manual is black with the same address as my black Plus4 manual.
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2002-04-17
| +4= relisted on Ebay
The auction that I 'borrowed' the picture from, has been relisted:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2017887760
Lando: West Chester, Pennsylvania is where Commodore's US headquarters were after they bought MOS and moved to be closer to the chip foundry. Your black manuals should also have a US FCC notice inside the front cover. I would think this would be sufficient proof of the unsold American units being liquidated in Europe.
James
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Posted By
MIK
on 2002-04-18
| A right mess up and I forgot to say....
Yes your correct about FFC rules on the inside page.
I had all my other manuals put away and just got them out now. I also have a large black User Manual, also having the USA address and FFC. It's the same word for word but has 200 pages where my small one has 230 pages.
The larger black one has an advertizment card added to the back-inside. "Get the most out of your Commodore Computer..... With Commodore Magazines." It's so you can subscribe to the mag and this card page can be pulled out and folded over which turns into a free post thing. Address is:
Commdore Publications
Magazine Subscription Department
Box 651
Holmes,PA 19043
My white/blue manual is the UK Corby address and so is my red/white C16 Manual, but out of all the manuals only the C16 is hard back 
I've only just noticed now and never thought about it before. The UK manual shows the round UK power surpply and the UK 3pin plug
Yes the release of the plus4 over here was odd. Commodore (Wish I could find and see this again) advertized the C16 on TV!! Now when you went into town to buy one the Plus4 was sat right next to it, came with 11 games, joystick and was 30 pounds cheaper. I binned my Plus4 box years ago, but I remember it having the Queens stamp marking "By Appointment to her majesty the Queen" logo on the box with the normal coloured Plus4 logo.
My Manuals were black and these later blue/white ones have the Queen badge on then?? I think the plus4 was a rush release in time for Xmas and thats how I got mine
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2002-04-18
| Ok I'll grant you that one
I can see why you have black manuals. Imagine this: TED project conceived and developed to compete with Spectrum--rush C16 out the door to compete head on and the Plus/4 as an upgrade unit. Commodore UK was not set up to produce this unit, so CBM US shipped some over there until UK could produce their own.
Fair enough?
James
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Posted By
MIK
on 2002-04-19
| Yes, I'll go along with that :-)
and the box was just a box with the big "C=" printed on it if I rememeber because the out side was a printed carboard sleave that made it look nice
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