Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-16
09:30:34
|  Tuning in problem
Hi guys,
I just got a Commodore Plus 4 from ebay (great condition; all boxed in original packagaing etc) but can't for the life of me tune it in to any of my TV's. I've tried 4 different TV's and even a different RF lead (scanning right through the VHS and UHF ranges with fine tuning [took AGES!]). Some research leads me to believe today's TV technology may not be compatible with 20 year old computers - is this the case?
I understand there's a chap in Portsmouth who makes RF to SCART cable but wondered if anyone has any experience of this being successful or not? Presumably, it's just a case of plugging it in and selecting your AV channel on the TV - am I right?
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-16
10:42:17
| Re: Tuning in problem
Thanks for the info. I have tuned my TV into that frequency but there is no signal - that said, the usual white "snowy" interference is much finer suggesting the actual frequency may not be a million miles from the one you suggest. I have fine-tuned several degrees either side of 591.25Mhz but to no avail.
If I remove the cover there is a small adjustment screw on the actual silver box - is it worth minor adjustment of that to further fine-tune or would you recommend I leave it and try the SCART option instead? (I don't want to make the problem worse obviously, or risk the SCART option not working either).
Thanks for your help - sorry but I am not as technologically up on the workings of the Commodore as you more experienced users!
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2007-06-16
11:05:47
| Re: Tuning in problem
It is possible that the RF output in the machine does not work correctly. In any case, using a cable that connects the Plus/4 audio/video DIN connector and the TV SCART connector is worth trying, since you can use composite video or even S-video and get much better quality than with the RF output. An RF to SCART converter, that is, still using some kind of tuner, is not a really good idea, on the other hand.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2007-06-16
11:10:44
| Re: Tuning in problem
One more possible problem could be that you have an NTSC machine and a PAL TV, or vice versa.
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-16
11:58:14
| Re: Tuning in problem
Have been in touch with the ebay seller who confirms the computer is in proper working order. He couldn't tune it into his "new" TV either but on an old push-button one (with manual tuning) it works fine he says. The computer was built and sold in UK so no NTSC/PAL problems.
I'm gonna go with the SCART connector as an easy (and cheap) fix to see how I get on - by theory, a standard SCART connection to the TV set to AV should work without any need for tuning - fingers crossed!
Thanks for you advice and suggestions - I'll let you know how I get on...
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2007-06-16
17:17:35
| Re: Tuning in problem
Michael, it is always possible that someone set your UK Plus/4 to be an NTSC machine. Unlikely, yes.... but possible. The easiest way to know is to check the ROM in socket U24. If it's 318005-05 then it's NTSC, 318005-04 is PAL.
The video processing chip ("TED") is compatible with both systems, but has to be told somehow which system to display in. The ROM I mentioned is the chip that tells TED to be PAL or NTSC at power-up.
Going through the DIN connector to a SCART would be a better picture on any television, so that is the preferred method anyway. Using the RF cable is really a "poor man's" television adapter.
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-18
04:32:10
| Re: Tuning in problem
The general opinion seems to be "avoid the RF connection and use the 8-pin Video port at the back of the unit to connect with the TV via SCART". I'll make some enquiries in this regard and let you know - thanks again for all your help guys.
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-27
05:04:54
| Re: Tuning in problem
Well I'm having real trouble finding anyone who makes any cable of this nature. I've had recommendations regarding frequency boosters and god knows what else - I can't believe this is such a big problem! I thought technology was supposed to ADVANCE and yet it seems the TVs of yester-year can cope where today's cannot.
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Posted By
Broad, Darron M.
on 2007-06-27
08:01:40
| Re: Tuning in problem
hi there
the +4 works fine with a composite AV lead designed for a C64, you may have them more readily available.
although the +4 socket has 8 pins, only 2, 3 and 4 are needed and a regular 180' 5 pin din will suffice. i use
a cable just like that i soldered together about 20 years ago 
your RF interference or lack of picture is probably due to FIVE (formerly ch5) on tv channel 37 or thereabouts
in your area.
cya
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-27
09:02:47
| Re: Tuning in problem
Hi there,
Don't fancy knocking me one up do ya? I'll happily bung you a few quid! All I wanna do now is PLAY the thing and I can't!! :o)
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Posted By
Broad, Darron M.
on 2007-06-27
09:36:21
| Re: Tuning in problem
yes i can do that it would be no problem, however, after reading this thread again i do feel concerned
that you may have a more serious issue with this machine. a AV lead would confirm that your TED
chip is alive and well, however.
email me at darron at kewl dot org and we can work somethign out.
cya
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Posted By
Ulysses777
on 2007-06-27
11:13:33
| Re: Tuning in problem
About the RF: something you might want to check (although unlikely to be the problem):
On the metal box containing the RF unit, there's a small hole with the letters G and I embossed on the surface next to it. In this hole is a small dipswitch, make sure that this switch is in the I position.
This switch toggles between PAL-G (used in continental Europe) and PAL-I (used in the UK and Ireland).
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-06-29
15:42:46
| Re: Tuning in problem
Thank you; I had already checked that and it was set to I. I tried the G setting too but to no avail. However, Darron has now knocked me up a cable and I will post on here to confirm how I got on once received, Royal Mail postal strike permitting!
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-07-03
12:21:41
| Re: Tuning in problem
Still having problems guys despite the cable Darron made up for me which he as tested on his own machine. The fault MUST lie somewhere in my machine...
I have re-read this thread and in response to you JAMES, having taken the cover off and looked inside, the socket U24 actually bears the following code: 318004-05 (ie NEITHER of the combinations you mentioned!) The other sockets bear the following:-
U23: 318006-01
U25: 317053-01
U26: 317054-01
U19: 251641-02
Does this help anyone any in diagnosing the fault or the next course of action? I'm getting depressed now! :o(
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-07-03
12:42:45
| Re: Tuning in problem
So what's the best/easiest/cheapest course of action from here?
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-07-03
13:39:17
| Re: Tuning in problem
Sorry guys but most of this jargon's going right over my head! What does having a PAL-G ROM installed mean in terms of resolving the issue so I can play the commodore here on a standard UK TV? Or have I bought a lemon and should look to return it to the ebay seller for a refund?
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Posted By
Ulysses777
on 2007-07-03
14:06:20
| Re: Tuning in problem
When you use the cable, is there a momentary flicker on the screen when you turn on the Plus/4? A faulty Plus/4 will often display a black screen.
The numbers JamesC posted were actually different revisions of the NTSC ROM (318005). Yours is a PAL ROM (318004), which works with both PAL-G/I.
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-07-05
13:05:38
| Re: Tuning in problem
Darron's kindly agreed to meet with me to look at the +4 and diagnose the problem once and for all (hopefully)!
I'll post an update in due course once we've had a coiuple of beers to celebrate the resolution to this rather protracted issue, as it's turned out!
Meantime, thanks again everyone for your comments and suggestions. :o)
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-07-09
05:43:10
| Re: Tuning in problem
Finally, a result!
I met with Darron this weekend and he was able to determine the Video chip in my +4 was faulty. A replacement was installed and, in conjunction with the cable he had previously put together for me, I was finally able to play my +4 and revisit the 80's with such wonderous games as Fire Ant, Treasure Island, Icicle Works and Number Builder!
With reference to them master tapes you passed on Darron, sadly none of them loaded up. Not even Commando. :o(
Thanks again to Darron for all his assistance, and to the rest of you for your input - it was greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Michael
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Posted By
DanSolo
on 2007-07-09
18:13:41
| Re: Tuning in problem
Where'd he get the TED from? Seems you have to kill a 16/Plus4 to save one...
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Posted By
Michael
on 2007-07-13
13:15:55
| Re: Tuning in problem
You're right - there was a partially dead machine which harvested the TED chip in order that mine could live!
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