Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-14
17:08:17
 |  Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I've been doing some detective work, it's called going through my big stash of spares and I've dug out a couple more long loaders. We already know Formula 1 Simulator was originally released as a long loader,(with extra loading screen) and these others I've found are:
BMX Racers - includes Novaload version of the BASIC coded loading screen to set joy or keys.
Spectipede
Squirm - includes Novaload version of the BASIC coded loading screen.
Vegas Jackpot - Crashes trying to display loading screen but can be hacked if you replace line 20 of the loading screen BASIC code with the same code found in the working Novaload version with,
20 POKE 65298,2 : POKE 65299,56
After typing RUN the game will load a little more before trying to display the loading screen. Press any key to continue loading and the game will load and run fine. Tested on a C16.
*** There are Novaload versions of Vega Jackpot with the same bug, the game like Rockman was later fixed once Mastertonic spotted the error and why the .tap on Plus/4 World works fine. ***
I've noticed the above games were all released in 1985...,
Tutti Frutti & Rockman were also released in 1985 however their covers do not have that old style "type LOAD & RUN" loading instructions on the back cover. This may mean there are no non-turbo versions of these two games? Has anyone ever seen or own officially released by Mastertronic non-turbo versions of Tutti Frutti & Rockman?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-04-14
17:09:01
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Cool stuff! I don't have any of these original tapes, but one guess would be that Tutti Frutti and Rockman were released later that year, and by that time they switched to turbo-only tapes.
Hopefully some of the serious collections can check this in their stash...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-04-15
02:15:17
 | Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Intriguing question...
BMX Racers and Squirm tapes we have here do exactly what you described. Did you mean that you've found tape versions of BMX Racers and Squirm that loads by Novaload the intro screens and THEN they continue to load with normal long loaders? On the other hand, we completely missed Spectipede with long loader here. Then, we have two versions for Vegas Jackpot, with the latter fixed to work on Plus/4, but neither one or the other have that loading error, so hope the trouble doesn't hide when running on emulators!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-15
04:45:39
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
No, I meant BMX Racers & Squirm have the same screen before the game properly loads as the loading screen found on the Novaload versions. All the above tapes are saved with the standard kernal save routine.
I've always known there was a faulty version of Vegas Jackpot, but it could be a simple case that some of them might of been this so called C16 Only version? I was using a Plus/4 when I did a lot of the early tapes to make sure they worked before I created the tap and why we have a working Novaload version. So yeah, there is no fault with the emulators as that current working Vegas Jackpot came from my Plus/4 collection. 
This long loader is faulty on a real C16 and if I remember correct I think I did read some where that Shaun Southern coded all his games on a C16. Blame Mastertronic for the error, maybe it was them who created the load screen as a sort of presentation of the company before the game loaded like they were doing on C64?
Next time the tap making machine is wired up I will make .tap's of the missing ones.
One thing I picked up on last night, Squirm has the same style of back cover as Tutti Frutti & Rockman. I have a feeling that Csabo might be is right and the save change over to Novaload might of happened after Squirm's original release...
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Posted By
MMS
on 2015-04-15
13:58:01
 | Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Well, two of my very first two official games were Formula 1 simulator (I played a lot) and Vegas Jackpot.
Both loaded and worked perfectly on the unexpanded C16.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-15
16:24:41
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Hungary got all the good stuff, we in the UK had all the crap.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2015-04-16
08:30:36
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
My parents bough the C16 when it became somehow cheaper / phasing out.
Was there any potential HW or kernal (BIOS  ) update/change that may impact the behaviour of the C16s with Novaload?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-16
10:41:59
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
There are revision A & B C16 motherboards. Anyone know what differences there were other than having better memory upgrade support in the Rev.B?
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Posted By
Rüdiger
on 2015-04-16
10:51:58
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I have in my collection Tutti Frutti and Rockman without Novaload (or any fastload).
Rockman exits 3 different tapes:
1. C-16 only, no fastload
2. C-16 only, with Novaload saved
3. +4 fixed, with Novaload saved (but only Commodore 16 labeled on the cover)
There exits also 2 releases, where Mastertronic first saved the programs with Novaload, but later saved with a new different fastload. Found at Master Chess and Megabolt.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-17
12:16:16
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Thanks Rüdiger,
I've never seen Rockman or Tutti Frutti long loaders but nice to know they exist.
As for Master Chess & Megabolts, that's a new one on me. I think I have a number of spare copies of Masterchess and maybe two spare Megabolts so will look out for it.
A couple of games from Mastertronic I have always assumed that the coder might of added the Turbo Loader such as Finders Keepers which uses a Half Wav. I also thought this was the case with the game Thrust from Firebird Software as all the others used Novaload.
EDIT:
Wow!!! It's mad you can still find out things from the old stuff, or maybe we have long forgot? Thanks to Rüdiger remembering! :)
As luck would have it I just found these other Turbo versions of Masterchess and Megabolts in my spares box. Both use very different Halfwav Turbo's from each other instead of the classic Novaload we normally see them with, and there is something different... Master Chess has a GREEN in-game border, and Megabolts has a different file found name. Makes me wonder if the original games had a bug and was later fix?
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Posted By
Rüdiger
on 2015-04-17
13:03:54
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I suspect that this fastloader be created as an alternative because the novaload is to circumvent yes quite simple and the attempt of a new copy protection?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-04-19
10:58:24
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Maybe, and it might of been more trouble than it was worth as they went back to Novaload with other game releases. If I remember correct, Xadium was the last classic styled single game release from Mastertronic for C16/Plus4.
As you know, half wav's require the heads to be aligned almost perfectly so they load on a real machine, if the heads are slightly out they will fail. The last thing a company wanted were returned tapes.
Novaload is the most forgiving turbo if the heads are slightly out.
EDIT:
I just uploaded to the guys tap's of:
Masterchess - green border halfwav
Megabolts - halfwav
BMX Racers - without turbo loader
Spectipede - without turbo loader
Squirm - without turbo loader
Vegas Jackpot - without turbo loader
Petch - Official Anirog version which comes off the C16/C64 release, the found file name has TS in it...
All tap's have been tested and work perfectly with YAPE and I'm sure the guys will add them to each games page as soon as possible.
Video Poker long load works perfect in C16 & Plus/4 mode with YAPE!! It does not crash at the title screen like it does on my real C16. I will try it on a real Plus/4 tomorrow and also try another real C16 just in case my machine is faulty...
EDIT 2:
I have found the source of why Vegas Jackpot without turbo does not display the load screen correct. Revision B C16 (16K) motherboards are the cause of the problem, I tested 3 Rev.B C16's and they all show the same fault!
The load screen displays perfect on both Rev.A motherboard C16's (16K) and Plus/4!
Don't forget the version without turbo and the Novaload version have slightly different BASIC code for the load screen. To be honest though, this is one commercial release out of say 500 that shows this error on Rev.B C16 motherboards, it's not an issue really but interesting all the same. It might be useful for the emulator guys as a means of checking for Rev.B C16 support but ultimately it has no real use...
Here is a shot of that screen on a Rev.B C16 (16K) machine. Note, I have pressed the Run/Stop as to why the mess on the left hand side of the screen.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-04-19
09:19:46
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Thank you MIK, they're all in! Plus, I've found a copy of Tape 3+1 lying in the same /incoming folder waiting for its destiny. Obviously, I've added it too, but who's the contributor for it?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-05-18
04:48:25
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I never sent in that Tape 3+1, not mine and not in my collection.
About Petch, some one has listed a "wanted" non-turbo version but all the covers on the site have the word "Turbo" on them. I always thought that meant the game had a Turbo Loader. Unless there is some other release we don't know about?
EDIT:
It's enough to make you go crazy!
Plus/4 World now has 3 tap files for Vegas Jackpot and this would suggest there are at least 3 different versions of the game in existence. I was loading up another copy on Plus/4 yesterday and the game failed to display properly as I have seen many a time before, this would aslo suggest it is "C16 Only" but there is more to it than that...
1. Non-turbo - Long Loader.
2. First Novaload release.
Both 1 & 2 can come under the C16 Only tag and will not display properly on a Plus/4, however both may have loading issues with some C16 motherboard revisions. Rev.B being the most common machine not to display the game properly.
3. Second Novaload release. This runs and displays correct on both C16 & Plus/4.
I think we can finally put this game to bed, but burn in hell anyone that sells a copy on ebay claiming it's tested and working without trying it on a Plus/4 1st!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-06-11
06:15:14
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Oh, I've just opened a pack of stuff bought on eBay, and here it is a cassette of BMX racers that shows a big roll of tape and looks like the totally white Las Vegas Jackpot portrayed by MIK Let's take a picture of this too, very soon...
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-11
07:01:44
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
It's mad how many different ones can surface, enough to make you go crazy.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-06-11
10:51:43
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Ok, this is an earlier no turbo version in which the filename is "BMX RACERS (C16)".
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-11
12:00:21
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
When it released the Plus/4 wasn't widely available or known about in the UK and why these early games from Matertronic only state C16 as the machine lable. I would imagine that's part of the story behind it to include that C16 in the name. I might of said it before, I believe these white tapes are first editions as they match the style of C64 tapes that were released in 1984...
Some one has already sent a copy in but just to add, there is a Formula 1 Simulator with the C16/Plus4 label. I've only ever seen the UK ebay dealer Attic Bug with them, it's almost like it's an after market run? Unique any way I believe... Different game from the C64 as well which you know.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Commodore-C16-Plus4-Formula-1-Sim-Mastertronic-New-/110465824029
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-16
11:58:19
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
As a relatively new C16 owner I have been picking up everything and anything on the system (budget permitting!) and the vast percentage of my collection is made up of Mastertronic titles, at the moment the only games I have are all turbo loaders and for reliability and speed I have found them to be superb. I have zero experience of loading any other kinds of loaders apart from a few that I have tried on Yape.
So am I right in assuming that non turbo C16/plus 4 tend to display blank screens until they load or is that just what happens through emulation? How reliable are these kind of loaders and do they generally only display blank screens until they load, my C64 and Spectrum background tries to convince me that a blank screen is not the best thing- so any pointers on this will be helpful.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-17
08:37:54
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
In short all non-turbo games use the native commodore save route and unless the tape is badly made then they are the easiest and most reliable games of all to load. Around 75% will have the same colour screen as you see when the tape is searching for the found name. Many will show this same colour screen until the game has fully loaded.
Very rare but some guys managed to add an auto RUN with the non-turbo stuff and sometimes they would change the screen colour while it loaded. If I remember correct Jet Set Willy loads with a PINK screen which is set just after the FOUND game has passed... Others do the same sort of thing but they can use any colour including Black so yeah, Black will be one of those when a game loads with some.
Another way to change the screen colour as a non-turbo game loads is to have a little intro program before the game it's self loads as seen with Manic Miner. The original release of Manic miner is the non-turbo version.
Something like this can be done:
10 COLOR4,1:COLOR0,1:COLOR1,2
20 LOAD
Line 10 sets the screen and the border Black and the text White.
Line 20 loads what ever is next on the tape.
When you type run the screen goes Black, text changes to White then the loading continues... Try the above lines before you load a game and your see. Any Turbo may or will over ride this but your see it for a while, at least to the Found name.
So... non-turbo BMX Racers loads a title screen which sets the screen and border black and then uses other colours to tell you about the game and to set the control as seen in the Turbo version. With the non-turbo you would have to type RUN to get this loaded part to work, but when loading resumes the screen will stay black until the game has fully loaded because of what was set in Basic. The same happens to the Turbo version but the Turbo it's self can over ride this of course so you see color raster bars dancing about instead.
Hope that helps.
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-17
11:04:19
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Sure does, many thanks for the advice, at the rate I have been buying up C16 games I am amazed that I haven't yet picked up anything other than turbo loads. Not that I am complaining though!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-17
12:47:55
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
All the games other than Tomcat & Taskforce on C16/Plus4 from Players are non-turbo loaders, not a bad place to grab one either.
A couple of nice ones to look out for are Bubble Trouble, Auto Zone, Dizzy Dice.
Not the best but you might like as it uses monochrome graphics like a Spectrum title is Joe Blade 2, it's fun for 10 minuets but not much else going for it so no means a classic or a must have.
My fav Spectrum looking type game on C16/Plus4 as the machine was intended to be like, (instead of the C64 look most went with) is Mastertronic's Video Meanies. I just love the high detail that monochrome graphics can offer, and a lot more game normally as it doesn't eat as much memory. Makes me laugh when guys on the C64 say something is crap just because it looks like a Spectrum game... yet they love the Dizzy titles haha!
One more thing...
The average 16k non-turbo game takes anything from 100-140 on the number counter to load. So around 3-4 times longer than a 16k Novaload title. It's about the same time it takes the average C64 game with Turbo and a loading screen to fully load.
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-19
05:10:32
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
As ever, top advice once again, thanks Mik, Autozone looks like decent title and is one on my must have list. You are right- Video Meanies does look very Spectrumy! The collection is growing rapidly and a non turbo load game will surely come my way soon!
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-22
10:00:47
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
8 new games ordered from ebay- surely there must be a non turboload game amongst that lot!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-22
15:51:35
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Anything interesting?
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-22
16:44:27
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Mr Puniverse
Spore
Powerball
Kung Fu Kid
Molecule Man
Tutti Fruitti
Bmx Racers
Harbour Attack
Should have me playing for a bit!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-06-23
06:31:19
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
You might get lucky with BMX Racers but chances of any of them being long loaders is very slim. The original clamshell version of Harbour Attack is a long loader...
The commercial version of Molecule Man is keys only. Forget the instruction stating it does use joystick, only keyboard controls. Plenty of interesting games there though, should keep you busy.
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Posted By
sidney
on 2015-06-26
03:57:20
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I have received all of them in them in the post and absolutely none of them are non turbo loaders, not even Bmx Racers!
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Posted By
Sidney
on 2015-07-09
18:40:21
| Zzap I Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I have just received Vegas Jackpot and Paperboy, Paperboy is amazing and highly playable especially when you consider it's running in 12k. Back to topic though, my copy of Vegas Jackpot was a Novaload despite having loads of tape and loaded on the count of 37 with tons of tape to spare! Is this common?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-07-11
15:15:10
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
Obviously try the other side of the tape if you have not done so already.
Load the game and then pop the tape into a normal cassette tape player, fast forward a bit and if you hear data then someone may of copied a fast load over the original long load.
If it's blank after the game has loaded then maybe it was left over tapes from the long load production run and they just used the remaining tapes...?
As I'm sure you know, the long loader was the original 1st release.
PS. Yeah Paperboy C16 is very cool. Jörg Dierks did a great job with the machines limitations. I wish he had done Ikari Warroirs too as his commando clone Legionnaire for C16 is one of my fav games and is another example of getting the most out of 12k.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-07-11
10:26:03
 | Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
The problem I have with Legionnaire is that the bullets can be a little difficult to see and with the slightly slower pace of the Legionnaire, much more harder to avoid, which is a shame. I do prefer Ikari myself.
I did buy Legionnaire back in the day, but after numerous copies failed to load properly I changed it for another game. With my more limited knowledge back then, it was probably a misaligned tape deck.
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Posted By
Sidney
on 2015-07-16
11:39:46
| Re: Mastertronic non-turbo long loaders.
I am really enjoying Paperboy, it's amazing what they managed to squeeze out of the system. As for Vegas-- it turbo loads and the rest of the (long) tape is blank.
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