| Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-10
16:41:01
 |  TED Music Collection?
Read this very interesting post on 8bittoday: several platform have their own collection, starting from the most famous HVSC, till the Spectrum and MSX.
The question is: how to do soemthing of that kind for 264 series too?
Extracting TED tunes from a game, a demo, whatever, looks quite complicated: how many formats? Which guidelines should be kept? Are we able to code a faithful TED sound emulator like SIDplay2, or a plugin which works in Winamp or XMplay (they exist for c64 .sid, GB's .gbs and so on...)?
Nonetheless, we all know there are several music box demos playing several games'tunes altogether: Choose It, Sound Box 3, Music 2, Musics of Games, Stealed Sounds and so on...
A complete collection would include whole files with all the tunes plus SFX, both ML and BASIC.
Ideas around?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2009-05-11
02:30:10
| Re: TED Music Collection?
For extracting the tunes, would an emulator modification that records audio register changes as an event list to a file be suitable ? Is TED sound enough, or SID is also needed ?
A TED player plugin for Winamp etc. can be written easily once the file format is defined.
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-11
04:07:10
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I really like the idea of a TED collection 
My 2 cents about it:
- SID files should not be included. HVSC means "SID collection". It is not convenient for the listeners to have SID files scattered.
- I wouldn't like just recording audio register changes. One nice thing about HVSC is that you can (in most cases) easily look for a tune there if you need one for your own production. Also, you couldn't glimpse at other people's players.
- I don't see why it should be harder to extract a TED tune than a SID tune. Am I missing something?
- I don't think a decent TED sound emulator will be too hard. Istvan probably could do it between breakfast and leaving the house  (Well, BASIC tunes might be a bit trickier, dunno)
- The file format seems to be the key thing first. Inspiration from HVSC wouldn't hurt, me thinks. Most fields are applicable for TED sounds, too.
- Next thing is a devoted maintainer/team.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-11
04:34:20
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Yes, of course no SID needed, this would be a TED collection, a lot smaller in size due to the very little TEDsound production overall.
And yes, the tune should be extracted "as is", preserving its own format. I think the experience of Ian Coog about HVSC and SID extracting would be useful here too, hence I would hear his words here in this topic soon.
The format should include the emulation of BASIC tunes, ML tunes and eventually SFX (the latter worries me a bit...), and, like for .sid, should have an initial indexing part, followed by the original code that plays the stuff: having all the data, like SIDplay2 does, it would be easy to have an option which saves it raw or .ted, for any usage
It would be great to have both emuplayer (like SIDplay2) AND several plugins (winamp, xmplay...).
Of course, as Childish Messiah, I really would keep up the whole farm as maintainer
In the end, something like namefile.ted will excite me greatly
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2009-05-11
05:40:01
| Re: TED Music Collection?
So the player should be basically a simplified Plus/4 emulator including only the 8501 CPU and those parts of the TED that are needed for the playback (audio and timing), like it is done in SIDplay2 (which has 6510, SID, and CIA emulation) ? And the files are .prg's with additional information ?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-11
06:10:12
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Yes Istvan, we can start from this line and see in betatesting what we have to challenge.
A SID file can be splitted in two via SIDplay2: another .sid file (confusing btw!) which is pure id text, and a .dat file (superconfusing!) which is simply a .prg (yes with the two bytes loadaddress too!). We will have simply .ted .txt and .prg
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-11
07:02:35
| Re: TED Music Collection?
IstvanV: Sidplay2 can play BASIC files, so you will need the ROMs, too, if you want to support that.
Luca: Yeah, the naming is confusing. It comes form the days when the extensions for emulators were not settled at all.
Except renaming the file extensions: What would argue against simply reusing the SID-file format. Maybe just some new flags need to be defined (TED model?). And the ID string. On the pro side, all required tools are available instantly (update, converters, analyzers...). Some of them are free software, so abusing them just might need a small patch stack.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-05-11
07:16:37
 | Re: TED Music Collection?
I just wanted to add some comments, but I deleted them, as they were too pessimistic.
As SidPlay, it should be a limited emulation, to get the proper sound, especially as in TED a lot of tricks had to be used to get a right sound (except some very old basic musics).
I have some bad experiences with SID modul of WinAmp.
In fact, there is one more music type, when Plus/4 tries to emulate in real-time the SID (I dunno the official nam, maybe digi-converter?). Like Laser Squad into music (Shadow of the Beast), and some others, working on pure TED. Are they included in the concept, or handled as "low-quality" SID? (in fact I find them rather impressiveespecially knowing the TED limitations).
One more question: did anyone tried out TCFS Soundbooster?
(http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Soundbooster_V1 )
From expert point of view, how well it utilizes TED possibilities? Is there better editor available producing good sound?
I have a Spectrum contact, and he looking for the best TED music editor. He is keen on creating some 2-3-4 channel musics for TED Certainly I want to offer him something compatible with the other formats, and well playable (also provides nice music+drum)
He made some nice Tangerine Dream musics on Spectrum beeper (2 channels + drum).
It would be great to organize some MORE talented musicians to this platform (extra to the available ones). but good tolls needed.
In fact he was looking for a C-116, but I could not find any for him in Hungary...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-11
07:53:42
| Re: TED Music Collection?
MMS: Winamp's SID plugin is quite crappy, at the moment you can consider the newest version of SIDplay2 99.99% close to the original machine
Moreover, a fixed squarewave and white noise is something truly easy to emulate, and IstvanV's and Gaia's emulators are pretty perfect in that.
Lemme repeat: no SID! All the SID music you'd met on Plus/4 lies in the right collection (HVSC), this is mean to be a TED collection instead, we don't need wave/digi-converters, and I'd never heard a TED music fail or play faulty on emuls.
The SoundBooster is a native SID tracker/editor, converted on Plus/4 in order to produce SID files, which are played with a TED frq-converter. A Plus/4 SID version exists too: Sid-soundbooster.
Do you need a good TED music editor? Crossassemblers! I strongly suggest the reading of Lone News 20, which was intended to make clear about the past, present and future of TED sound
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2009-05-11
08:56:22
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Ninja The Dreams: yes, of course the ROMs would be included (PAL/NTSC kernal, and basic).
The existing SID formats could be a good starting point, maybe even SIDplay2 can be modified for playing Plus/4 sound instead of C64.
Luca: having SID emulation in the player is easy to do; it might not be very useful, but there may be some programs that use TED and SID sound at the same time. By the way, I also used reSID code - which is in SIDplay2 - in my emulator.
What information should be included in the .ted files ? Should it be possible to play original .prg data, using only the extra information in the header to select tracks etc. ? Some ideas:
- header for identifying the file format and version
- name of the tune, author, etc.
- machine configuration (PAL/NTSC, memory size)
- information about running the program (for example, jump addresses, RUN line numbers, or code to be executed for initialization, selecting tracks, etc.)
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-11
09:30:09
| Re: TED Music Collection?
...there may be some programs that use TED and SID sound at the same time...
...and they're SID stuff, it does mean they need a SIDcard plugged in, no real native machine sound.
But! Even though at the moment I can't remember anything using linked TED+SID sound, it may be and have to be preserved in some ways, you're right. My suggestion is to keep it as a secret feature embedding SID too, and use for these files another format extension, something like .tes would be kewl.
Let's do a brilliant example: XeO3.
At the moment XeO3 has SID tunes and TED sfx, but separated! Sfx would be included in our collection, music in HVSC (HVSC actually includes older XeO3 music!). Of course, as clearly explained by TLC in the SidWinder V01.23 docs, the same SID data blocks have been packed differently because of different c64/plus4 clock and octaves (so, plus4 SID .prg and c64 SID .prg are really different!). This means that in HVSC my SIDs done for the plus4 stuff have been packed for C64 SID in order to play in the same way of the plus4 ones.
If Mike will have success in put in a frq-converter to play music with TED, that's still SID stuff, which doesn't find access in the TED music collection.
Please, note this important point of view, globally recognized when we talk about these collections: we are not preserving 264 machines'music: we are preserving TED (!) music!. ProjextAY doesn't collect Spectrum music but Spectrum+Amstrad (AY is the YM2149 audio chip); HVSC contains even Crackers'Demo 4 tracks (SID).
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-11
11:00:29
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Something like .tes sounds overkill to me. You can't preserve any tune, no matter how hard you try. Designing such a format is more pain than gain, I'd think. Think about all side-effects of parallelism. I'd suggest for the low-hanging fruits first, there is lots of things to collect already...
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-05-11
11:10:34
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Luca, thanks for the quick and detailed answer.
Some more comment, maybe not too OFF (as related to the standard music formats available for Plus/4, and which one is the best)
I already went through few weeks ago the Lonenews20, and shared it with the guy too(unfortunately the LN20 articles's text is not out on the page, but explained him how to run emu). The article is rather complete.
The guy I am in connection with is looking for an editor for musicians, as he is not a programmer (he is in the same situation as me...). I go through again the article, I may missed that info.
(the best to check the youtube link to understand what he expected to use, the TCFS tracker was the closest to that, but as turned out, not a native TED sound (well, it did not define SID card to run, so I supposed it run on TED; still a SID emulation)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBVzgr6LGA
Maybe you won't find my comments too far from the original article.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-05-11
11:10:57
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I like the idea as well.
Outliers:
- I have some unreleased tunes that use SID + TED (which fails if there's no SID), and SID + TED digi which falls back to TED only if there's no SID.
- What's never been done to my knowledge, but was talked about and certainly possible is using the V364's sound capabilities as extra channel(s).
- Algorithmic composition: other than my own Quadrillion and Rockstar Ate My Border, there's Krakout +4. I only met TCFS once and in that conversation I asked him about that particular tune. IIRC, he said the patterns are randomized. The point: to properly emulate these tunes, the emulation might have to be "more complete".
If handling all that kills the project, then forget it, but otherwise if the goal is to be as complete and accurate as possible, then those points are something to think about.
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Posted By
MagerValp
on 2009-05-11
11:25:08
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Ab/re-using the .sid file format seems like a good idea, since they'd essentially contain the same thing. I would suggest using a new file extension though, so users can easily map it to a different player program. .TMF for "TED Music File" seems reasonably free, it's only used by some old Word Perfect font metric file.
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-11
12:36:03
| Re: TED Music Collection?
MV: What's wrong with .ted? It seems to be only used by some Sierra game. It is more descriptive and you can even pronounce it
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-11
13:58:45
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Csabo: oh, I guessed that tune was from Kazik and the Ghost...
Yes, probably every damn source of TED sound will have its own problematics: registers to be zeroed, or set on another value, and so on.
Yes, the .sid format is a great point of beginning, here's a bible about it.
Ok, we have TED+SID (unreleased yet, but possible), TED digi, TED+TED digi (and what about Hexaeder's sound demo?).
I raise up my arm for: .ted for everyone, .tes to specify it also uses SID (and it needs to be preserved too).
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Posted By
MagerValp
on 2009-05-11
15:35:35
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Since TED isn't just a sound chip, it sounds wrong (to me to use it for a music file. Heck, it stands for Text EDitor and not Sound Interface Device
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-11
17:17:18
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I tried (and Ian Coog was with me) to extract Auf Wiedersehen Monty's TED tune.
OMG it has been an horrible job (time and frq tables all around!), but in the end I did it. To me, it looks like a very big effort to challenge with...
Here it is (courtesy of Ian Coog and Ready64 site).
Init/Play: $2863/$2879
Start/End: $2803/$2AF3
PS: ah and what about multispeed tunes? ;) SIDplay2 uses speedflag and CIA, on c64...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-12
07:41:20
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Did you read the .sid files tech infos?
Most of the stuff in it is there in order to fix all the troubles in RSID/PSID/whatever compatibility. It seems we would need a lot less than a $7C long header to switch the emulation's features the music would need, in case of .ted (and no .tes) file.
Let's try to compare with it and see what we would need ([?]) and we need for sure ([*]).
[?] initial magicID: Ian Coog did an attempt and put a 4bytes "TED!"; but, if there's no need to eventually mark .ted and .tes files because a specific flag will do it, I really don't strictly see the point in having it...oh well yeah it's cool of course
[*] data offset: the length of ID itself;
[?] load address: oh well, the following prg part will contain in the very end, who cares here? RSID is our mastah!
[*] init/play addresses: init=0 if BASIC enabled (hence, no BASIC flag needed!); if init >$8000, oh well it doesn't seems to be a pain; if play=0, we expect an irq subroutine would be installed by the init
[*] #songs: I'm quite sure there are, like for SIDs done with a common tracker/editor, TED music files containing more than one music/sfx;
[*] start song: default 1 if not touched;
[?] speed: aaaaargh this looks difficut to me! if 0, then it runs as chosen (PAL/NTSC, callback 1 per frame); on C64, CIA is used when it's =1, so the music is called nth time per frame because CIA calls an interrupt once the machine waits for the machine time set in $DC04/$DC05, so if the SID tune is, for example, a 4x tune, CIA is set to be [ALLTHESCREENTIME/4-1]; what about plus/4? TLCPlay's files for example have a 3rd JSR when played 2x; should we simply set a stub player before the original .prg in all the multispeed cases? speed also should affect digi music, am I right?
[*] text: very .sid-like, with TITLE AUTHOR and COPYRIGHT field (.sid has 32 bytes long, should be enough);
[*] pal/ntsc/unknown
[?] reloc startpage/reloc pagelength: mmm bah bofh mah dunno, dunnidit..
[?] reserved: for future features we're forgetting now, without changing all the previous .ted and .tes files?
This for a .ted files: the usage of SID, instead of this simple stuff, would need maaany moooore flags in the header, with SID model stuff and so on. We have to decide: a single format header which contains eventually EVERYTHING, SID included (but I strongly suggest again to use .tes instead of .ted in order to prevent audience's misunderstanding), OR two different, precisely separated, formats.
In the meantime, I've just cleaned my TED files, and they are ready to be included, I invite Sire Degauss Csabo TLC Erno Britelite 4-mat in doing the same, and eventually send the files to me
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-12
12:10:01
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Ripping can be fun once in a while. Maybe you could start something like the HVSC RipCompo (http://demodungeon.com/ripcompo/).
- Keep the initial ID at all costs. Essential for sanity checking, and nice to get a hint if you view the file as a hexdump. Maybe TED1 where 1 indicates the revision number.
- please don't do things like "init==0 means BASIC". This is not orthogonal and we have enough flag bits anyhow.
- speed: can't we just do the same as on C64? Or is there something wrong with $FF00/01 I don't know about?
- there are a number of c64-tunes which have a special call for multispeed-play, too. we could just look what HVSC does. Same for digis.
- what about type flag. Are there TED revisions which sound remarkably different (like 6581/8580)?
- reloc startpage: yes, please!
- reserved? well, we have the revision number and the offset...
and please keep the SID stuff out of it. Make a new file format for it, if you are really bored Otherwise I would say, those few tunes (which don't exist yet officially) can be easily preserved with emulators...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-12
14:33:20
| Re: TED Music Collection?
- magicID: yes you're right;
- init ==0 not only for BASIC: yes probably you're right again;
- speedflag with CIA: hahahaha, what a shame, I juggled with $FF00/01 a lot when coding the limiTED 2 restro, I guess that was the digi speed, hence the machine was occupied writing on $FF11 at every slice determined by that, after I guess an IRQ acknowledgement via $FF09; when Ian Coog asked me about a similar CIA stuff on Plus/4 I answered "ah dunno..." I'm a real stupid I know I know...
- HVSC does what I described;
- TED revisions: MOS 7360/8360 have absolutely no reported difference, we set free a big trouble which uses to affect C64 instead;
- reloc: ok, welcome.
About a possibile income of TED+SID stuff: it doesn't fit into HVSC, would be cool to be ready in preserving that stuff too. But that's a second line problem right now, we're simply doing hypothesis
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Posted By
KiCHY
on 2009-05-13
04:19:32
| Re: TED Music Collection?
"We have to decide: a single format header ... OR two different..."
I prefer to stay at ONE header for all, but a flexible one, like ID3 for music. A very simple example:
"TED" -> to identify file header format
"TITL" + $14 + "Auf Wiedesehen Monty" -> means the song title is a 20 chars long text, alt.1
"PUBL" + $10 + "Gremlin Graphics" -> the publisher, 16 chars
"VERS" + $10 -> means a "version 1.0" data
"LADR" + $34 + $12 -> means a "load address" data, which is $1234
"INIT" + $00/$01/etc -> how to init the music
"IADR" + $45 + $23 -> emu should jump to $2345 to init music
"PADR" + $48 + $23 -> emu should jump to $2348 to play music
...and more various field types may came later.
So plz forget the fixed sized headers, it fits only for lazy programmers The ordering of these fields are indifferent, if TEDPlay program can't find "AUTR" then it knows there is no "author" field in header, it says "Author: Unknown" for the user.
Well, this way our header can be twice as long as the "hardcoded header format", but is more flexible and expandable. We need support for TED+SID? Lets put some SID-specific fields somewhere in header... If TEDPlay finds it, it will know its a TED+SID music.
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-05-13
08:43:32
 | Re: TED Music Collection?
Oh, believe me - SIDplay2 isn't faithful at all.
If You would like to make such a collection (which would be great, as I'm a big TED's fan) then maybe MP3 recorded from the original machine? Anyway, that's what I do on my "Z80 chip music site" mentioned on the "8bittoday" article.
So personally I would be delighted to listen to real TED music from MP3 than the emulated sound (in 90% of cases - not even close to original).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-13
09:14:48
| Re: TED Music Collection?
YERZMYEY/AY-RIDERS: eh, that would be another very interesting project indeed!
But first of all, we intend to preserve the original code which produces the TED music, and make it replicable nth times in order to let you use it too, if you want.
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-05-13
09:24:35
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Oh, MMS, I've just noticed Your posts. Nice to meet You here too.
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-05-13
09:36:05
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Btw, many thanx for the infos about Soundbooster series, I will test these progs for sure (hopefully they work on emul).
Luca: I see. Of course.
Well, in this case, I would dare to suggest - for the future, and the MP3 archive - to add/record the TED-emulated SID musix too (but NOT played by SID).
I understand that TED isn't strictly a sound-chip but then - what to say about our main sound-source, which is Z80 chip, beeing a CPU.
Therefore I added to my site ( http://z80.i-demo.pl/ ) all interesting songs generated by Z80, no matter the engine.
And personally I think it's really great TED's feature it can play SID music. If I were a coder, I would try to change this playing-engine to play more interesting 3-channels traxx, despite of SID itself.
I mean we have only one channel in a hardware way but people wrote many cool engines with more channels (even 8). And all these are Z80's sound.
Ah, well - just a thought anyway. Nothing more.
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-13
12:42:55
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Aren't terms like "faithfully" and "close to the original" more subjective ones?
Besides, you can play .ted files on a real iron every time you want
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-05-13
15:20:24
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Well, speaking about music, as an art, is always subjective.
But if it does not sound like the same as the one the composer wished, then this comment is valid.
In fact , I am very happy with the current implementation of Plus4Emu and Yape from that point of view (there were some older emus did not produce faithful sound in several demos, but it is the past). There were some tricky sounds in demos/intros I do remember from my childhood, and these two emus play exactly the same I remember. On SID: with WinAmp plugin I had troubles, but SidPlay sound rather close to the original. I do not feel the difference.
But I am not a musician, and listen to trash metal, so...
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-05-13
16:54:06
| Re: TED Music Collection?
MMS: Oh, believe me, I love thrash metal with all my soul.
However let me tell You a story.
For *years* I thought that C64 sound is the crappest thing in the world because of NOT having real machine but listenning only to C64 emulators and SID emulators (new and old).
And suddenly I found on the Net recordings from the real hardware and... I got a heart attack! It was SO brilliant! Nothing to compare to SidPlay. So - that's my story. Not too much details but You will have to believe me.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-14
10:42:16
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Our chitchatting around the general format of a .ted (and .tes?) file has reached some good points, but now it's time to wait the real matter, and that means we need to touch materially a first beta from the hero(es) who really code(s) the TEDplay itself. Any interesting feedback from the outside there?
Waiting for feedback, here comes my very first effort in ripping music and maintaining a valid folder tree, and you can download'em too!
TLC or Csabo, I have this "tune_01" done in TLCplay I got from somewhere, who did it?
HVTC 0.001
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2009-05-14
12:09:16
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I could try writing a simple player (as well as a C interface that would allow other programs to load and play .ted files), but I am not sure about the file format. Should it be based on PSID/RSID, or is it OK to develop a new extensible format for the Plus/4 ?
About the .prg files: is the init address a subroutine that returns with RTS (it looks so from one file I looked at; if that is the case, should it be run at full speed with no sound output ?), play is the actual player code (does it also return eventually ?), and start and end are simply the start and end address of the .prg data in memory (thus end - start is the size of the program) ? In the case of Thalassa, are there two "play" addresses, which means two separate songs ?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2009-05-14
12:33:12
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Well, it seems I did not fully understand it, the "play" address is actually also a subroutine, that should be called at 50 Hz speed (so that is why the .sid header has a "speed" field).
But the three addresses in Thalassa are still not quite clear (they do not work the way I first assumed).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-14
12:55:09
| Re: TED Music Collection?
IstvanV: digi tunes have one single init/play address, you let'em run and that's all; in normal tune files, JSR$init at the very beginning and JSR$play usually into an irq (yes one time per frame, 50Hz), thalassa is 2x, hence you have to JSR two different addresses (that's the TLCplay) per frame.
A player for Thalassa as an example:
. 2000 78 SEI
. 2001 8D 3F FF STA $FF3F
. 2004 A2 40 LDX #$40
. 2006 A0 20 LDY #$20
. 2008 8E FE FF STX $FFFE
. 200B 8C FF FF STY $FFFF
. 200E 20 93 6F JSR $6F93
. 2011 A9 40 LDA #$40
. 2013 8D 0B FF STA $FF0B
. 2016 58 CLI
. 2017 4C 17 20 JMP $2017
. 2040 48 PHA
. 2041 8A TXA
. 2042 48 PHA
. 2043 98 TYA
. 2044 48 PHA
. 2045 EE 15 FF INC $FF15
. 2048 EE 19 FF INC $FF19
. 204B 20 96 6F JSR $6F96
. 204E 20 99 6F JSR $6F99
. 2051 CE 15 FF DEC $FF15
. 2054 CE 19 FF DEC $FF19
. 2057 0E 09 FF ASL $FF09
. 205A 68 PLA
. 205B A8 TAY
. 205C 68 PLA
. 205D AA TAX
. 205E 68 PLA
. 205F 40 RTI
We are inventing a brand new format, and .sid is a good starting point to decide how it can be done. Moreover, we speculated enough about what it could need. So, feel free to test your own format, the features we liisted are all useful
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Posted By
MagerValp
on 2009-05-15
03:02:37
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Istvan, if you want some inspiration on how to design the music player, don't miss the absolutely fantastic SIDPLAY for Mac:
http://www.sidmusic.org/sidplay/mac/
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Posted By
TLC
on 2009-05-16
03:45:14
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Hi guys!
Some cents...
tune_01 might have been composed by Csabo.
I (myself) really only did two attempts to compose music in TLCPlay; one of them being the test tune supplied with the pack (covering Matt Gray's Hyperion intro tune), the other being a test tune (too) which AFAIK was not released but some of you might have had a listen to nevertheless (covers "It's a new day" by Viper; a rather miserable attempt to create some trance-ish atmosphere on a platform with no bass, poliphony, filters etc.). This second one might have been created in a slightly modified version of the player that has not been released (due to lack of interest or time -- I got my first decent job about that time, also implying that I had to move to another town -- or the fact that I simply didn't consider the modified structure worthwile, I don't remember now).
...So "my" tunes might be really easy to collect, by now...
As for the structure of the collection...
HVSID has been around for more than a decade. It should make a good start (as most of you had pointed out already). Those extra details dealing with backwards compatibility can safely be omitted; we're in the lucky situation of having the opportunity to learn from an evolved example... ...Keep in mind: HVSID originally supported DOS (silly 8+3 filenames) and Amiga (...back then, the PSID files were meant to be possible to play on an emulation engine ran by a 7.14 Mhz 68000... :o ). We don't have to deal with these details (as I guess) anymore.
I'd turn down to use an event-based fileformat (having seen a couple of bad examples lately). In the form István have suggested it might work well, though (I just don't see the advantage, other than the possibility to rip tunes easier -- which is also a drawback of some sort, as one would (in its simplest form) have to capture the tune data "interactively", which is a source of problems, if the goal is some kind of preservation of original tunes, just as they are).
As for the emulation engine...
Personally, I'd be happy to see a similar structure to libsidplay(2) and reSID (ie: separate emulation library and player). Keeping that structure means no obstacle to link statically, but creating a stand-alone player _with_ emulation code embedded makes it impossible to use the emulation engine from anything but the player UI.
...But István is probably much more aware of these things than I am.
Emulation: as opposed to the SID, the TED sound is pretty simple to emulate. It's _almost_ fully possible to emulate TED sound precisely on PC hardware. ...The real problem in emulating a SID is to emulate the analog functions that apply to mixing, DC levels here and there, response curves -- and especially the SID filter which is non-linear, and is especially hard to emulate in a faithful manner. In opposition to that, the TED sound is fully digital, and if there's anything that could make it "hard" to emulate, that is the sharp waves (rich overtones) it generates (that you can either deal with with digital filters well or not; but even if not, the most "unfaithful" effect you can get is either a lot of undersampling noise and/or muffled, overly filtered sound -- nothing really serious).
Ripping tunes...
Most true TED classics originate from the early, mid- to late '80s. That, unfortunately, is the time when no "real" sound systems were around (similarly to the early-to-mid-80's SID tunes). ...So, unlike today's players, it might be pretty hard to find and collect (and rip) some tunes from some particular games. (But this has been a phase HVSC went through, too... you might ask them about, say, David Dunn's routines )
István: regarding the question of entrance points of the player, that might pretty much match the structure seen in HVSC. There's an entry for init, an other entry that plays tune data and sounds, and a third one that merely updates the sounds alone (that way, one can create "multispeed" sounds without the burden of also having to update the tune).
SID+TED: just two concerns:
-- What should be with tunes converted from the C64, but not by some converter routines (so that they're in fact "native" by their current form? ). There were some conversions from Batya, Mucsi, maybe Pigmy; the guys effectively rewrote some parts in the original players, and corrected the sound data here and there, to get decent result.
...Probably this is the point where "cover" and "conversion" meet. As I guess, nobody has problems with covers (re-write of original tunes), and I'm also pretty certain that "conversions" are not needed here. But what should be with tunes that were 'converted' and modified, to play well on TED?
(This also has something in common with tunes created in Soundbooster, or Plus/4 Future Composer, for that matter (if there were any, that is)).
-- The possibility to play SID + TED tunes should be kept (as some of you had already pointed out). SID is not native to this platform, but SID+TED tunes (in that form) are. (The platform is pretty special in this respect; people were always desperately trying to make a SID machine out of the Plus/4, and although I personally don't like that that much by now, the SID certainly has place in this story... just my 2 cents).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-16
04:42:03
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I'm totally with TLC, he made clear on my personal view of the thing. TLC hope you would send that test tune, I may include it in a /worktunes subfolder, like used to do in HVSC.
I've just got a .zip file from 4-Mat, he kindly have sent to me all his TED tunes, plus unreleased extras!! Quite cool!!
Now I expect all the tunes from Degauss and Csabo (don't forget data!). Ingo please, can you ask directly to Sire about a clean native file of his music used in Threeve?
Once all the "new" TED tunes have been collected, it will be seriously time for us to attack the classic games, hard but fun! If you've just ripped out any TED tune, and completely cleaned it to its elemental size, feel free to send it to me with all the data they would need!
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Posted By
mrsid
on 2009-05-16
05:24:36
| Re: TED Music Collection?
This should be useful to do high quality TED emulation: http://slack.net/~ant/bl-synth/
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Posted By
MagerValp
on 2009-05-16
08:56:31
| Re: TED Music Collection?
mrsid: dammit, I was just about to paste that link
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2009-05-16
16:52:46
| Re: TED Music Collection?
That is not exactly how I implemented it, since both the TED and SID sound emulations are cycle based and run at 221681 and 886724 Hz in PAL mode, respectively. So, generating bandlimited signals is not really needed there.
The audio output is then downsampled to 48000 Hz (or whatever sample rate the user chooses), with a windowed sinc interpolation if the "high quality" mode is enabled, which is the default. There is one trick, though, that slightly reduces SID quality for speed: rather than having an (expensive) 886724 to 48000 Hz resampler, blocks of four SID samples are averaged and mixed to the TED output.
You can test how this sounds in practice in plus4emu: try generating some high frequency TED square waves, and check if the aliasing is audible. For comparison, test other emulators as well.
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-17
02:29:29
| Re: TED Music Collection?
If you create the file format, please keep in mind that these files should be still playable (and parsable ) on the real iron
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-17
05:52:55
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Oh well, we're still talking about a header AND the original file in the same .ted, no magic tranformation needed
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2009-05-17
14:37:00
| Re: TED Music Collection?
@Luca: Alright, but i need a little time to pack the stuff together. I will try to contact sire aswell...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-18
07:17:23
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Ah, and the tunes composed by Elvis!
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2009-05-18
07:56:05
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Hehe, now I'm also interested in software library of TED musix because today I bought my first Plus/4 (hurray!!!).
So some common music format with some player for 264 would be nice. Haha.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-22
12:00:18
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Both 4-Mat and TLC entered their multispeed TED tunes.
IstvanV: about multispeed tunes, it would be great to have a header's tag which read the multispeed (2, 3, 4....) and is able to set a different IRQ for every call; you can use CIA ($FF00/$FF01) to create custom "slices" where to locate the IRQ callbacks.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-24
10:20:18
| Re: TED Music Collection?
(...continue)
The play calls should be custom too. TLCplay, for example, has init at, say, $x000; play at $x003, and any further call at $x006; 4-Mat multispeed attempt have init at $x000, and all the playcalls at $x003...
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Posted By
Ian Coog
on 2009-05-27
18:36:50
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I'd say to stick with just one play address and add your custom multispeed handling routine only where needed, like we do for .sid files, there isn't one solution for all multispeed out there. Some 4x have 1 jsr $x003 and 3 jsrs to $x006, some have 3 jsr $x003 and 1 x006.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-05-27
23:50:21
| Re: TED Music Collection?
TLC was right above, tune_01 is mine.
Luca, what would do you need exactly? Almost all my released tunes are already up here on Plus/4 World as source + compiled PRG.
I thought about this a bit and I'm starting to dislike the idea of another binary format. Since the number of tunes will be so low (100 maybe?), YERZMYEY's idea of just recoding them as MP3/OGG sounds pretty reasonable. It can be 100% accurate (e.g. could be recorded from the audio output of the real iron), and pretty much any player can instantly play it or stream it.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-05-28
03:11:26
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Csabo: I asked for your tunes to you directly because you surely remember all of those, and can make a whole pack of them, including 8sob's, CD4's, Quadrillion and several test tunes from you, compiling them in a clean init/play shape with no dirt around
An 8bit tune collection is NOT a simple mp3 compilation, first of all because, apart of preserving and cataloguing, you actually can use'em in your stuff. That's because there's the original file, plus a little "hat" header for a forthcoming player, which can be detached when needed.
The mp3 collection is...oh well another kind of collection, and it can be done too!
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Posted By
NinjaDRM
on 2009-05-29
08:02:41
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Csabo:
- MP3s can't be played on the real thing
- You can't learn from looking at the code of the tunes
- You can't just grab a tune in case you need one immediately
- You can make an MP3-archive from the TED-archive, not the other way around
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Posted By
TLC
on 2009-05-29
08:46:51
| Re: TED Music Collection?
BTW...
Here's an interesting project I stumbled upon some days ago:
http://www.6581-8580.com
...Not bad...
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2009-05-29
10:18:46
| Re: TED Music Collection?
We're talking about archives for different purposes. My purpose is simple: I want to listen to TED music on my non-Plussy devices.
But to answer your points:
- If I need to play a tune on the real thing... I'll just play it on the real thing.
- If I want to learn from the code, I'll open up the source and/or the documentation which is already provided. Doesn't that make more sense? I think there are 4 "modern" players, sorry if I left some out. LODplay has source, TLC's has docs, 4-Mat's has docs, the one used in Threeve is released as a separate PRG file so it's easy to disassemble.
- If you want to grab a tune... I guess you got me there, but this is a non-issue. If you REALLY need a particular tune, you can grab it any time. Even if it's pre-ripped, it's still not guaranteed to work immediately with whatever you're trying to plug it into. The real issue is: you should ask an active musician to write something new instead.
- Making an MP3 archive from TED-archive: true, I hope someone does it and then we can both have our ways
HVSC is great because it fits a certain pattern. Our scene is smaller, there are fewer tunes, and it doesn't seem to fit any kind of pattern. But hey, don't let me stop you guys from bringing this project to fruition
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-06-01
11:14:50
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Csabo, meantime, compile your tunes init/play like and send'em to me all
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-06-05
07:27:09
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I heard no news for a while about this project. Now I need some tangible feedbacks.
At the moment, I have two folders on my desktop: one contains an ordered tree with "naked" TED tunes'files; the other contains the same clean files exomized and with a player in order to hear the music instantly once loaded in YAPE. Hence, in the most bad condition, a HVTC will exist in this form, and it would be great if ppl would contribute to it providing clean rips of TED tunes, especially from classic games, so much work to do on the horizon...
Csabo plz tell me if you're going to compile all your music for the collection, or if you may provide a complete list (hey can't remember all) in order to let me have a complete ripped tunes's collection by myself (brrr, I'm scared of the CD4 entry, it looks sooo haaaard to rip!).
IstvanV will you decide to spend time in order to have a player for a new .ted file format? Somebody else interested into?
And kisses to anyone!
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2009-06-05
19:58:13
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Hi Luca!
I've send a couple of tracks to you... There are several more to go for me.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-06-06
02:47:40
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Aaaah thanks Degauss, I was waiting for these!
A courtesy: could you please send'em "naked" without a player aswell? That way, I would have the original file too with no risks and no tables loosing
Fill with zeroes the useless memory between two used memory slices.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-06-07
16:56:55
| Re: TED Music Collection?
All the tunes from Degauss and Elvis are in, we only miss the tunes from Brain Wash, coming soon. I also added the 8SOB tune from Britelite. 42 tunes overall, before a real V0.1 release.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-06-09
17:01:29
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Degauss is close to complete his own and Elvis'stuff, Ern0 offered his help in order to rip his own tunes, but Iìve just got 4 of them! Csabo?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2010-07-03
17:55:41
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Let's give new life to this ancient thread.
Even though nobody was deeply interested, I stored 72 TED tunes, and I would appreciate any further help from you in order to achieve as many TEDtunes, in the purest way possible.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-01
14:18:52
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Today HVTC reached 100 files!
Just to inform all of you that this little project has never stopped, and you're still free to help in in even with a little contribute (to be clear: rip TED music in the cleanest way you can).
Dunno yet how to choose BASIC and digi tunes, anyway I'm going on
Addon: the title tune in Nautilus is a cover of a terrible italodisco song sung by a male/female duo. Unfortunately, neither me nor the author himself, Ern0 have been able to remember the title of that song. Who can help in recognizing it?
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2012-01-01
15:06:01
 | Re: TED Music Collection?
Why does it say
"The music on the title screen is "Ha Felszáll a Köd" ("If the Fog Ascends") by Solaris."
on the Nautilus page then?
I'll check it out
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-01
15:13:17
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I swapped "intro" with "presentation". The misunderstanding is a consequence of the missing of an original copy: we have a Doky's cracked and trained version with crack intro, presentation screen, trainer, and then titles.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2012-01-01
15:55:34
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Yeah, when I started the game I remembered thinking about THAT song right away. It sounds so familiar but I can't put a name on it 
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-01
16:16:37
 | Re: TED Music Collection?
is there a dedicated side for hvtc ?
a tool for replay ted-music on ie mac?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-01
16:30:39
| Re: TED Music Collection?
No, and no. :/
We started with that very cute idea, but nothing has been done apart of my tunes hacking around. I use to store a clean code for any TED music in a folders tree, and a runnable exomized .prg file which plays that music into a common /player folder.
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-01
17:18:12
| Re: TED Music Collection?
so today you posted..
"Today HVTC reached 100 files!"
where are these??
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-01
18:14:10
| Re: TED Music Collection?
why not activate folder-dir and link the folders as first step?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-01
18:16:53
| Re: TED Music Collection?
As I wrote in the previous post:"Because of the low interest around the HVTC project, I didn't..."
This stuff is a sort of online backup of my HVTC project, didn't get the chance to do something with it yet, I simply continue to rip the music codes when I can. Reaching 100 of those is a sort of goal to be interpreted in order to have a look of what to do next with this project's blossom.
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-01
18:18:59
| Re: TED Music Collection?
but 2012 ist the year of hvtc, i think 
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-01
18:20:07
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Heh! I hope so!
I did a snapshot of the /player folder, so everybody can download the current runnable files, simply using as URL:
http://plus4world.powweb.com/feat/tedsound/player/filename.prg
changing filename.prg with one of those in the picture.
Beware: a TED tune which plays on emulator may have been changed in order to play it, and may be not 100% original (of course, the "naked" ones in the folders structure are the original code).
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Posted By
YERZMYEY
on 2012-01-05
03:54:36
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Luca:
>Because of the low interest around the HVTC project, I didn't prepared a public page, but all the files are just here at Plus/4 World
The TED files are in a folders structure like these:
/feat/tedsound/HVTC/musicians/luca/adventures_in_time_title.prg
--------------------------
Sorry man, I don't get it;
I can't enter the /feat/tedsound/HVTC/musicians/
I can see there only "Directory has no index file.
Browsing this site or directory without an index file is prohibited."
Greetz.
Y
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-05
06:07:08
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Yes, as I said there's no a readable page, at the moment you can download the runnable files I've shown in the upper image, entering any name.prg in the structure I suggested in the same post, with example.
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-05
12:12:19
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I've downloaded all the prg. to make it easier for others I've uploaded the files here
http://laufkopf670.de/264/HVTC/
you can download all files in one zip or browse the directory
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Posted By
TLC
on 2012-01-06
14:35:34
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Very inspiring work.
Ed.: I've just ran through the coll (listening to the great majority of tunes for some minutes), and I'm (well, sort of) speechless.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-06
14:58:14
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Oh thanks! I hope you're speechless because of positive thoughts
At now, the collection contains 110 tunes (yes, +10 hacks in these days) and, as I wrote before, it's not clear what to do with the BASIC written stuff and the generic digis. At the moment, I included those commercial only and something experimental (the Terra Nova digi, as example). I also have to include some missing tunes made by Csabo.
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-06
16:21:51
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Luca just send me the new stuff and i upload it right now..
browse through http://www.laufkopf670.de/264/HVTC
download standalone tedplayer-tunes or pure songdata sorted by composer..
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-06
16:38:25
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Wait wait wait meantime I hacked number 111: Ürpók intro tune. A quick refreshing on rudis site will occur in few minutes
EDIT: rudis did it. A little note: in the player's king_of_kings.prg you have to press space to swap tunes (I forgot to put a text for it :( )
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2012-01-07
04:11:59
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Shall we create a standalone player then?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-07
06:37:17
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Gaia: as you can read from the posts above, we talked about a dedicated extension and an equivalent of SIDplayw to play those files. The project naturally found its stop and nothing had been decided, hence I slowly continued to hack and add easy coding players
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-07
12:10:41
| Re: TED Music Collection?
so, what about a dedicated format for music-files?
on atari st there is http://sndh.atari.org/fileformat.php
we should also think about de-init music and be able to write new standard player for listen only
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Posted By
TLC
on 2012-01-07
15:20:15
| Re: TED Music Collection?
HVSC is IMHO very well defined (there's a very good and mature concept behind it). They also have precise guidelines about filename convention, names, credits, whatever little details (everything which is needed for things to be kept consistent and organized in long terms). That (including the latest fileformat) should probably be adopted (keeping in mind the differences, where they apply).
There's a large number of tools for creating, modifying, handling sid files (SIDEdit and LaLa's SID editing tools and libraries come to mind first... heck, he even created a Perl module for that... will have to do a test myself). Some of those could be adopted without any modifications (or very small modifications) at all.
There's also a player that plays sid files on the real metal: sidplay64 (by GRG). Something like that could be adopted, or at worst, written from scratch for the real machine (if there's interest). Ed: that helps avoiding the burden of creating individual "runnable" prg files one by one.
Ed: HVSC, SIDEdit, SidPlay64.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2012-01-08
04:23:36
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Could someone perhaps - less illiterate with PSID-s than I - hack together a reference PSID (PTED?) music file (appropriately adjusting at the necessary points) so that we could than modify SIDplay's source to be able to play it. I guess that's a much shorter path to a standalone player than making one from scratch.
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Posted By
TLC
on 2012-01-08
13:03:43
| Re: TED Music Collection?
I'm still studying what PSID v1.0/2.0/2.0ng/RSID options imply and what should be kept and what part modified.
Though, after some time, I'm inclined to think that the first real question is, if the current psid/rsid format should be modified at all (apart from cosmetic changes ie. the magic in the file header and the filename extension).
Changing the format here and there might help getting rid of some of psid's historical details and options that still need to be dealt with today in a player for the fileformat. (As for the ability, I'm absolutely positive that the current psid/rsid fileformat is sufficient for our purposes; ...I could hardly invent a case (some special case of a ted tune) which would be impossible to describe, logically, using p/rsid).
Not changing the format's structure (apart from the mentioned cosmetic changes and logical "re-definitions", ie. there's no CIA timing in the Plus/4, but there's TED etc.), from the other hand, seems to promise very small "initial cost" of the project's startup, ie. no need to write file manipulating tools from scratch (the currently available sid file manipulating tools could be used with less to no modifications, which is IMHO a great advantage).
Still yesterday I could get SIDedit up and running on my machine (I mean the original version in Perl, not the supplied Windows binary). This is a Perl script ie. it can be analyzed and modified very easily. According to LaLa's copyright notice, it can be used and distributed under "the same terms as Perl itself" (which in practice is Perl's "artistic license" or GPL). I'm fairly positive that Plus/4 tune support can be added to SIDedit / Audio::SID if that turns out to be a good step. SIDedit already supports a lot of editing options, generating HVSC-standard filenames from tune titles, in short, most things which helps one to make clean sid tune files. Also, I'd suppose, it should run in ActivePerl natively (ActivePerl is a Perl/tk port to Windows), or it could be compiled to a standalone Windows exe (just as LaLa did, using perl2exe).
I'd be happy to read opinions on:
- What should be the coll's name?
- What should be the file extension of the files (from previous conversation, I'd presume .ted, but I'm not sure).
- What should be the 4 char file magic of the file headers, provided that some derivative of the p/rsid fileformat is used? (In p/rsid files, currently it's PSID and RSID).
This is still pretty experimental (still on the level of theory). Feel free to add suggestions, ideas, whatever...
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2012-01-08
14:54:50
| Re: TED Music Collection?
My 2 cents:
1) Erm... LVTC?
2) I think TED should just suffice, and we should keep the RSID format
3) Perhaps a different magic string like "RTED"? (unless editors rely on that one too much, but I guess it can be worked around easily)
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-17
10:50:16
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Help needed: my opinion is that in any of the programs which involves Tamas Medgyesi, HE is the musician too (say Championship Wrestling or Karate).
Is that right? Do you have more info?
Anyway: HVTC contains currently 130 single files Championship Wrestling's jingle and sfx lie in $00A0-$01FF + $3FE8-$3FFD, incredible! :o
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Posted By
crock
on 2012-01-17
12:18:20
 | Re: TED Music Collection?
Huh? So that games makes no use of the stack? No PHA, PLA or JSR?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-23
09:49:47
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Yeah , I faced so many weird experimenting stuff while hacking music
Current status: some BASIC tunes deleted (let's see in the future), nevertheless 135 single files overall. If rudis would be so kind to upload it, I'll show the next version once the 150 files target will be reached.
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-23
11:09:03
| Re: TED Music Collection?
just leave me a mail luca
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-25
19:01:41
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Reached the 150 single files goal, some BASIC tunes deleted (we'll see in the future), completed collections for Shaun Southern and Hartmut Ott. rudis got the pack and will put into his public space very soon
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-28
16:40:56
| Re: TED Music Collection?
just uploaded the files
get it http://laufkopf670.de/264/HVTC/
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-28
16:56:28
| Re: TED Music Collection?
At the moment rudis overlapped several releases, even in the folders and in the ZIPs. Who's used to follow collections like Exotica (Amiga) and HVSC (C64) knows that while the collection is refreshed, some files have to be deleted, some others have to be moved or changed.
I asked to rudis to keep the right version in both ZIPs and folders, hopefully he'll do it in the next hours. Thank you rudis for time and patience
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-01-28
17:48:18
| Re: TED Music Collection?
i downgraded to v2 now.
waiting for luca to tell what the h... is wrong
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-01-29
12:15:18
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Nothing more than what I've written here and by PM
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2012-02-03
13:42:50
| Re: TED Music Collection?
rudis,
Could you upload the archive(s) so everyone could download it(them) and sort it(them) out for themselves?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-02-03
15:59:37
| Re: TED Music Collection?
From today, Plus/4 World will manage HVTC directly, we're working on it. For now, this is the latest version, with 160 single files (I'm running on Brigitte Gertz's ):
HVTC 03 February 2012
Edit: /player/reaxion.prg -> press SPACE to change tune (will be fixed in the next released version)
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-02-10
16:51:19
| Re: TED Music Collection?
sorry for long delay.
i got rid of the folders and uploaded only the (now old) archiv.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-02-10
16:52:52
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Thanks rudis for your time and kindness
I'll use this place to keep it refreshed constantly:
HVTC@Features
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Posted By
rudis
on 2012-02-10
17:16:53
| Re: TED Music Collection?
wow, nice
take the archiv and make a v4 on my site as a mirror
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-02-12
20:25:22
| Re: TED Music Collection?
Csabo has set up the page HVTC@Features.
New version available with 171 single files, and now you can download all the single ones!
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