Re: C+4 vs C64 @Litwr if you catch the right wave of Lemon64 users, it could potentially become a round of crap, how it has already been several times on those forums. Finger crossed it won't
Re: C+4 vs C64 @bszggg: FWIW, both CIAs have ToD capability. Although, it is a far cry from a real RTC, it is still infinitely closer to it than anything in a 264er machine.
Re: C+4 vs C64 The RTC without a battery is a typical misnomer because it is not an RTC at all. However I mentioned both "RTC" in the table. IMHO the number of timers and pseudo-RTC on the C64 is a typical example of extra functionality that nobody needs.
Re: C+4 vs C64 On the other hand, the TED really could have used at least one decent timer, whose reload value can be set without disturbing its current countdown value. Preferably two of those. I'd be more than happy to sacrifice the hardware cursor and the third timer for this functionality, for instance.
Re: C+4 vs C64 In my honest opnion, we should avoid to open the classic what if chapter here, or we're gonna get stuck for sure I guess that Litwr asked for what they really do.
Re: C+4 vs C64 I checked the table, and I found description about "Multicolor text mode". I think the note is wrong: "The C64 uses two global colors in 4x8 matrix, the C+4 uses three. This gives more free colors for the C64"
This is a short description of C64 multocolor text mode: "Commodore 64 multicolor text mode reduces horizontal resolution to (160 x 200) pixels and allows each (4 x 8) character cell to have up to four colors. One color is the background, two are set universally for the screen, and the final one is a per-character color stored in the color RAM. To use this mode, bit 3 of the color RAM must be set, which also limits the available colors for that character to a subset of the palette."
This text mode is better than C64 text mode, because the Plus/4 can use half of the 121 colors while the C64 can use half of the 16 colors only
Re: C+4 vs C64 @Epy "two are set universally for the screen" = two global colors. The C+4 uses three global colors and one is the background. The +4 also uses bit 3 that reduces the number of colors from 16 to 8 (121 to 57). I agree that the base text mode of the C+4 is better: more colors, hardware cursor and reversed chars. However the C64 can use various sprite tricks to enhance its base text mode. But the C+4 can resize the screen...
Re: C+4 vs C64 Multicolor char mode: there is one background color, 2 fixed (global) color and one free color from attribute. It is the same as on C64
Multicolor gfx mode: correct. C64 is better, 3 free colors per attribute, while +4 has two global colors and only 2 free colors per attribute (this is where the designers could make a big step forward by creating a super multi gfx mode, with 4 free colors , 4K RAM for color +luminance. FPGATED maybe, in the future...)
Hires FLI: it is wrong. +4 can modify the color RAM only every second line. I suppose because it is not SRAM like the C64 color RAM, but DRAM has to wait timings, RAS/CAS etc. Otherwise it is a great mode with those fancy colors (comment: if there would be 16 grey shades (and not all black would be blacks, but different dark greys, it could produce almost Amiga quality B/W photo conversions) One example in the HFLI editor:
Re: C+4 vs C64 Had a glance to the Lemon64 thread, to see if my fears were justified. Spoiler: yes. I see the first attempts to derail the debate on who has the longest one, perhaps also due to the rather misleading title, you'll pay higher price that "Vs"!
Re: C+4 vs C64 @Epy Excuse me I was really wrong. I have just fixed this my error. My error was caused by the +4 way of thinking, I wrongly assumed that the C64 backgound is taken from RAM like the foreground on the +4. @MMS Thank you for your corrections. However Bubis' picture converter, DFLIConv2, seems to have the ability to get character or luminance information every bad line. This don't allow us to change both colors and luminances. So I suggest on the initial frame, only one part of attributes is latched and the next frames only take the second part of the attributes EVERY line. Actually I didn't test this but check the Bubis' converter docs. Yes, DFLI+4 uses two adjacent bad lines and this is reflected in the table. This mode is used in my programs so this information must be correct.
Re: C+4 vs C64 Sorry for my typo. The things are fixed now. @Epy Excuse me again. I should have checked the subject twice before my response. Thank you very much for your support.
Re: C+4 vs C64 @Verona Thank you. This is really a great demo. What a strange time we have! We are just not able to be aware of numerous masterpieces around. @orac81 Rather 9.
Re: C+4 vs C64 @Litwr: the question of the colors are black and white or grey depends greatly on the display configuration. Most displays (even CRT) sets the black level on the output so the display can adjust accordingly. So with proper settings the black is really black and the white can be white (with oversaturation we can even have proper red. but that sets everything off )
Re: C+4 vs C64 @siz As far as I know, the concept of absolute black is purely theoretical and impossible in reality. Absolute white is impossible even theoretically. So, in reality, we only have shades of grey. In practice, we can notice that the intensity of the TED video output on black is not zero...
Re: C+4 vs C64 @orac81 There is a quote in Wiki "Hawking's scientific works included a collaboration with Roger Penrose on gravitational singularity theorems in the framework of general relativity, and the theoretical prediction that black holes emit radiation, often called Hawking radiation." So the Hawking's answer is NO: even black holes are not black enough to be authentically black.
Re: C+4 vs C64 Yes, Hawking radiation, also the black holes would spagettify your +4. For a true black you need to wait for the Heat Death of the Universe.
Re: C+4 vs C64 I always liked Apollo 17 Gene Cernan's view on black. He described space as "inky black" because it lacks an atmosphere to scatter sunlight, and "the blackest black you can conceive in your mind" he said.
The last time I saw black like that was when the CPU died. A very dark day indeed.
Re: C+4 vs C64 @orac81 yeah I am pretty sure I did a lot of pixelling on this machine.
@Litwr I cannot confirm our black in not pure black, as I am on a TN monitor right now, not on OLED :-D
@Crazy he is not the guy who told he did not see any stars when he was out of space? Kind of strange. Atmosphere is reducing the brighness of the stars, not brightening them.
Re: C+4 vs C64 I think the color of the C264 series is absolute black in the Universe. Everything darker than that is just an illusion of the Matrix. Wake up Neo, take the red. Which is black.
Re: C+4 vs C64 @MMS At this distance from the sun, if the sun is partly in view looking out the spaceship window I guess it's similar to daylight on earth.
Re: C+4 vs C64 @cobbpg IIRC even the IBM PC professional hardware doesn't have a timer that allows us to change the counter without affecting the count. But you can get this effect using the value of the other timer to calculate the correction. The +4 has 3 free 2-byte timers exactly like the IBM PC.
The C+4 uses three global colors and one is the background. The +4 also uses bit 3 that reduces the number of colors from 16 to 8 (121 to 57).
