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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-06
14:38:14
 |  Re: Atic Atac is released
I see a broken main character... :-/
Btw, how to change the character in the titlescreen? Joystick doesn't and can't find easily the right keys because the keyboard hasn't been shut off, so several keys are involved in FIRE button too :)
EDIT: it works on C16 and doesn't on Plus/4, but in any case it continuously crashes after some rooms. Is it just me or...?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-06
16:06:06
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Crashed once for me as well.
Edit: and again. Here it is, when the screen turned gray so that the characters can be seen, if that helps:
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-06
16:15:13
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Did you saved up to $3FFD in order to avoid to manage $FFFE/$FFFF?  Also, you really have plenty of free memory under $1001, waste it even for silly addons!
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-06
17:00:32
 | Re: Atic Atac is released
It’s no longer downloadable.
I don’t have a plus/4 to test it on therefore it will likely remain broken.
I’m very disappointed with 2 different versions of Yape.
What a disappointing experience.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-06
17:04:59
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Ooh  No stinaris, don't drop the catch right now, the game is all there and it looks very promising!  Certainly, take your time to relax and reload with renewed energies, a neat prod is just around the corner. Oh, and don't keep you to ask for any help!
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2020-04-07
03:36:39
 | Re: Atic Atac is released
hey! i can offer you real iron test, and i think csabo and other guys can offer betatesting, debugging aswell.. so, go for it!
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-07
04:39:37
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Oh no. I'm not dropping it. This little b%$*ard is getting fixed and finished.
I just can't debug it on a plussy. I didn't have this issue on Gridiron but I didn't venture below $1001. I can only assume I've trampled over something I shouldn't have.
I have a C16 but my tapuino adapter lead has vanished (of course it has, just when I need it).
I have a couple of extra boxes to search otherwise I'll just order a new one.
@Luca - You use the same joystick (left and right) to change the character on the title screen. I didn't turn the keyboard off, Do I have to?. See this is where my understanding of the C64 and 264 series trips me up.
UPDATE
Ordered a new tapuino convertor so I can test on real hardware.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-07
04:55:20
| Re: Atic Atac is released
The characters selection by joystick doesn't work on Plus/4, weird but looks like a clue! Anyway I checked the game on some emulators, YAPE for example should be reliable enough to see if it works or not. If I would be allowed to suggest some hints, I would have pointed out to:
- use all that memory below $1001 (e.g., graphic and code for stairs and pits)
- make it NTSC compatible (LDA$FF07, AND#$40, ORA#$XX, STA$FF07)
- waste 6 bytes to shut off the keyboard.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-07
14:30:47
| Re: Atic Atac is released
- make it NTSC compatible (LDA$FF07, AND#$40, ORA#$XX, STA$FF07)
Errr. Why do i want to do this?
- waste 6 bytes to shut off the keyboard.
Again tonight.
- use all that memory below $1001 (e.g., graphic and code for stairs and pits)
That might take a bit longer.  The pit's, pretty easy. The stairs might prove a bit more tricky as I'm not sure how it will fit into the room generator engine.
I've also deleted all the Facebook posts relating to Atic Atac.
Hopefully everyone will forget until it works on real hardware.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-07
11:41:42
| Re: Atic Atac is released
If that helps, I did my testing with YAPE. Unless you're doing something really unusual TED tricks that YAPE doesn't emulate, it should be good enough to iron out the backs. Also, for what it's worth, I think it's related to shooting.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-07
15:52:49
| Re: Atic Atac is released
OK
Can you tell me why I need to switch to NTSC? For a start it's pink :-c #
How do you turn the keyboard off? Is the idea to stop the standard Raster Interrupt from calling the keyboard reader?
I've tested with Yape 1.1.6 and 1.0.4 just to be safe or so I thought. I've never once had a crash. The odd bug that i've sorted. I even very nearly completed the game at the weekend. I just locked myself out of the Attic :-/
I just downloaded Yape 1.1.7 and I can't get it to crash on that either. I've been playing for 10 minutes!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-07
16:31:13
| Re: Atic Atac is released
You don't need to switch to NTSC. What Luca was trying to show is how to make the game NTSC compatible (or, at least not outright NTSC incompatible).
The idea is very simple, don't touch the 7th bit ($40) of $FF07. That bit is 1 on NTSC machines and 0 on PAL machines. Directly writing to this bit switches the video mode, which you want to avoid.
So, to elaborate, instead of "LDA#$XX STA$FF07", you should use "LDA$FF07 AND#$40 ORA#$XX STA$FF07".
Edit: the crash is random. I started it up, crashed in about 1 minute, then I figured I'd record it for you... I played for a couple of minutes and no crash. So... You just have to keep trying I guess.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-07
16:53:12
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Omg there was no my intention to be that obscure...
Stinaris with that classic code, you simply preserve the original video format of any machine where your game runs, to allow both NTSC and PAL users to play your game (of course, clocks are a bit different, but the game can be displayed anyway...): read $FF07, see if bit6 is 1 or 0, "paste" the value intended to STA in $FF07 and that's all. If you previously wanted #$08 into $FF07, with this code the value will be #$08 in PAL machines, and automatically #$48 in NTSC machines.
Shut off the keyboard in 5 bytes, simply LDA#$FF STA$FD30 just before you STX $FF08.
Really? No crash in YAPE 1.1.7? Weird... Did you configure your YAPE at "very high compatibility" in /Machine/Configuration?
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-08
03:34:21
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Csabo. That sounds like a timing issue to me.
Luca - Oh yeah, of course (regarding compatibility) Sorry. I've had a full day running international development teams and I'll quite often have brain farts in the evening. It's tiring. Nothing like nurses or doctors at the moment.
But I tend to switch off from work and start Atic Atac straight away. My mind hasn't had time to rest and understand what's been written. Doh!
Default settings are very high compatibility.
I'll switch some of the startup default patterns too. It may be a non initialized variable issue.
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2020-04-08
07:36:08
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Whenever I fiddle around with my projects, I use both YAPE and plus4emu to test the stuff. It is too complicated and cumbersome to test the projects on real hardware for me too.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-08
08:52:09
| Re: Atic Atac is released
gerliczer I have some real machines ready to be used for testing purposes, you only have to ask, just like many others did before, I'm here for you
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Posted By
Mad
on 2020-04-08
11:42:45
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Luca thanks for testing stuffs.. We had some really deep issues ironed out this way.. If it was drive related, you even did many copies of the projects onto disc, nice that you offered that! All the others on Plus4World of course, too. Some people even have the "obscure"/currently seldom hardware to test things for.. Really glad that you do this!
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-13
07:18:12
| Re: Atic Atac is released
So after correcting a few uninitialized variables that I introduced as part of the optimization stage ( I know it's that because I keep backup copies and the earlier ones work fine!)
it's available on itch.io https://stinaris.itch.io/atic-atac for testing.
Password is 264Series
Please let me know if it works for you. It's been tested on Yape (In all modes, C16, plus/4 232. various custom machines, NTSC and PAL) and plus4emu
So it now works on Joystick 1 rather than 2.
The horrible audio was fixed (uninitialized variable)
Title page selection fixed (uninitialized variable) - If you went far enough left/right you would eventually get to an 8 bit value it recognized
Fixed the corrupted graphics when the game starts (Yep more uninitialized variables)
Still haven't been able to crash it.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-13
08:11:14
| Re: Atic Atac is released
I can crash it pretty consistently, and now I took the time to see what it is. Here you go:
It's memory corruption. The code at $3322 writes to wherever $E5 points, and as you can see, $E5 points to $2FD8. This kills the code there and it will crash.
Good luck!
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-14
15:29:11
| Re: Atic Atac is released
V1.2 is on limited release. Same password as before 264Series.
Still got another few days before I can test on a real C16.
Completed the game without a crash.
Played for another hour or so without a crash.
Hopefully I've got most of the uninitialized variables now.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-14
16:11:45
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Oh wow, it loads over $4000, so it writes in the zeropage on a C16, but not on a Plus/4. Is this what you wished for that? Let's have a check...
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-15
12:28:22
| Re: Atic Atac is released
V1.3 now available. Rogue debug code removed.
It's beginning to dawn on me that perhaps I should be working on something that needs less optimization with a bit more RAM as this is what takes the majority of the effort. Time is something I'm quite short of.
@csabo - What were the conditions you managed to crash it continuously?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-15
15:00:39
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris I suggest to edit your posts adding new text and leaving the old one too, it should be helpful to understand the evolution of the game's improvements
Tested on PAL real machines, it worked flawlessly to me now.
The shoot/pick/drop usage of the fire button is a bit trickery to be managed, but a bit of training is helpful for sure. To avoid that, you could add a different timing for the functions: in addition to the direction/no-direction which splits the pickup/drop function from the fire function, you can add a different timing, and wait for a longer time in order to pickup/drop items, otherwise is a shot in the given direction or in the last direction archived.
Pressing fire after the game over should be "shielded" from the subsequent checking fire to start a new play, you can add some lines in order to wait for a "no fire" situation before jumping back to the title screen.
My opinion is again that you have p.l.e.n.t.y of C16 memory to be used for little touches here and there, high score, pause and quit keys, titles, whatever
Do the characters have different features?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-15
15:24:46
| Re: Atic Atac is released
The latest version hasn't crashed for me either, it seems stable.
On gameplay: I'm not sure it's by design, but the fire button doing both shooting and picking up items is pretty annoying for me. Seems like I constantly dropped keys when I just wanted to shoot. Similarly, I'm not sure if the flashing colors for the randomly appearing ghost is intentional. You might want to do an AND#$7F to avoid that.
On optimization:
- The space and brackets in the SYS line are unnecessary. Saves a couple of bytes. The entire SYS is unnecessary though, if you add Exomizing the compiled program into your build process, and just start your code from $1000. It's pretty standard.
- Subroutines that are only called once should be eliminated. Saves 4 bytes (the extra JSR + RTS) and runs faster. ($10A8, $10DF, etc).
- JSR$#### + RTS should be just JMP. There's a lot of these $1273, $1321, etc.
- The y+=8 routine at $19E8 would be both faster and shorter as TYA CLC ADC#$08 TAY. I only did a cursory check, but it didn't look like A was used anywhere where this was called from.
These are minor, the game looks okay to be released IMHO.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-16
09:50:37
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Thanks for the feedback. It looks like almost every issue was to do with uninitialized variables when I started using the space below $1001. :-/
@Luca
I will add a little extra control on the firing/inventory. I'd imagined it a bit like Paradroid on one button, but I was concerned about the delay especially with the speed of the ghosts. I only just completed with the ghost speed even with maps so I could probably do with slowing there materialization a bit, to give you a bit of time for inventory management.
You will notice grey doors around. These are opened depending which character you are.
I will update the button press after the game over.
@Csabo
The fire button combo operation, I wanted like Paradroid. It hasn't quite worked out.....yet.
I wasn't sure about the flashing ghosts when I first did it, but after few plays I got to quite like it. Some of them are also black. I thought it added an extra dimension of difficulty (although not sure Atic Atac needs that)
Called once subroutines. I did start rolling a couple of them in. But I wanted to get some stability after my botched optimizations. Now it's stable I can now go through optimization again and go through your suggestions.
Weather is rubbish here Friday and Saturday so hopefully I'll have an update at the end of the weekend.
Thanks again.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-19
15:35:51
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris something still needs your attention, load on YAPE the .fre file I've sent to you via Messenger (allow the message request first, of course), and read the note under your post at Plus/4 World's Facebook group.
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Posted By
Mad
on 2020-04-19
20:10:16
| Re: Atic Atac is released
It's beyond my understanding, how this complete game fits in around 12k with all it's features .. Nice work Stinaris!!!
And yeah of course nice work of all the other C16ers, too.. Kichy,Csabo,Luca + all the crowd here! :) You 16k people know how to code! :)
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-20
05:03:25
| Re: Atic Atac is released
@Luca - Thanks for actually testing it properly. I was under orders for family time (quite rightly) and I rushed the testing. I will learn to count. A great example why magic numbers are a bad idea
@Mad - Oh it was easy really. :-/ Putting all my variables below $1001 really helped as I have 242 bytes of local variables.
Watch my how i managed to squeeze Atic Atac into the C16 video on YouTube, Coming Soon! Apparently.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-20
16:01:25
| Re: Atic Atac is released
With the memory being full... There's no way one could squeeze in a full size title picture and still keep it 16K compatible, is there?
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-20
16:33:01
| Re: Atic Atac is released
What about a loading picture?
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
06:57:55
| Re: Atic Atac is released
@Csabo - I had a quick stab at Exomizer. I compressed it 34% (wow that is some compression system).
I assumed I could just load it in and it would decompress. However it just farted at me.
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2020-04-21
08:23:26
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Please click on Csabo's "no way" to see the magic
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-21
09:17:19
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Exo is very easy to use. Unless you discovered a new bug or used some really weird flags, the PRG files that it produces should run just fine. Try this:
exomizer sfx $1011 -t4 aticatac.prg -oatic_atac_comp.prg
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
10:42:27
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Yep that worked. Bloody command line tools. It's like working in Irix again.
Ahh. I see you got a gorgeous title page on there.
I said I couldn't squeeze it in, not it couldn't be done. I don't have the knowledge.
The title page'd version doesn't work on the C16 or plus/4 properly. It doesn't display the game over screen, which means it probably doesn't display the congratulations game over screen either.
It works with an exomized .prg file. I would have a go myself but I should be working.
There does seem to be an issue with Yape 1.1.7. Whenever I record game play it has a bit of a hissy fit, offsets the image and has a horrible buzzing sound.
1.1.6 works fine.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-21
10:35:06
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris: if that could be of some help, using a bunch of trainers I did, I can confirm that Atic Atac+ shows the congratulations text. Btw, why the game ends when you enter the room 0 with the flashing door? I guessed it would have finished when the character tries to go thru the flashing door...
In addition, I would use -t16 on Exomizer, instead of -t4 in this case.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
10:46:17
| Re: Atic Atac is released
I've tried Yape 1.1.6 and Plus4Emu and it's just a black screen, no GameOver message.
BTW Exomizer is astonishing.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-21
10:45:57
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris I talked about the congratulations screen, not the game over one...which is absolutely a black screen indeed
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
10:54:09
| Re: Atic Atac is released
That's odd as they are basically the same routine with an if.
" Btw, why the game ends when you enter the room 0 with the flashing door? I guessed it would have finished when the character tries to go thru the flashing door..." -
Maybe it would have if it wasn't my 2nd piece of C16 software.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-21
10:51:28
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris yes Exomizer is a great tool indeed, I'm very proud of my own C16 trained cracks, which are allowed to include a regular crack intro only due to the power of Exomizer (and the wonderful super reducted player by Csabo), and still work on a plain C16.
Maybe it would have if it wasn't my 2nd piece of C16 software.
Err... I didn't understand if that works as expected or not :)
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
11:05:05
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Yes, that's the way it's supposed to work.
The door is a special case and with my limited skills I didn't have enough space.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-21
11:09:06
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris oh well it appears to be a working choice to me, I'm enjoying the game even now
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
11:26:29
| Re: Atic Atac is released
and the what? "and the wonderful super reducted player"
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-21
11:35:30
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris yes, at the time of my first C16 proper crack release, I asked to Csabo an incredibly tiny player in order to have a veeery simple TED jingle to play during the intro, the tiniest possible one which can result still acceptable in tune's length and quality. Csabo's player is quite a ductile one, he used to modify by himself in order to have the features he needs for his TED tunes, so in that case he gave to me a very tiny version: the first music I used from him was a 493 bytes long one! :o After that first one, he composed another one for me (386 bytes!), and then I used his code in order to compose my own tune with his player. Fantastic stuff indeed!
Cracktro 16k
Cracktro 16k 2
Cracktro 16k 3
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
11:44:05
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Errrr.
F*cking hells bells. Those tunes are epic.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2020-04-21
12:38:06
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Found the issue: the game is loading the color code of the "GAME OVER" text from $17 (without ever initializing that value). This is a bug in the original game, there's no guarantee that this zeropage value will contain $16 (which is a dark blue). I'm assuming maybe it's a typo, instead of LDA$17, it should have been LDA#$17.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-21
13:18:17
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Blimey that's a lucky bug!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-21
13:25:17
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Blimey that's a lucky bug!
haha!
Being Atic Atac+ actually a Atic Atac +! (alternatively: Atic Atac +G) crack, this could be the chance to add trainers in order to easily solve the game (3 bytes to bypass keys'collecting, 3 to kill all the 4 enemies unregarding what's carried on, the same for permanently have the pieces of key), and push forward a fantastic Atic Atac +(x)F! (or: Atic Atac +(x)FG) crack, where (x) is the total number of trainers, and the game over color's fix is included too!
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-22
05:34:04
| Re: Atic Atac is released
That's the colour I wanted but #$2e is the correct value not #$17
Version 1.9 has GameOver colour fix, including NovaLoad version for the purists.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2020-04-22
15:45:29
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Stinaris: congratulations for you great little gem!
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Posted By
Mad
on 2020-04-22
17:39:56
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Yeah congrats for this gem Stinaris!
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2020-04-23
06:29:12
| Re: Atic Atac is released
Thanks, it was fun.
I'm going back to Gameboy development so i can release Kaboom! (converted from Atari 2600).
I wrote it about 10 years ago in a weekend and ran out of time/talent to do any audio. (It actually works on real hardware!)
I will return after this for my next project.
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