Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-12-22
07:05:47
|  Hall Of Fame
 What's that? A new item in the main menu?
Plus/4 World returns to its gaming roots by the addition of the Hall Of Fame. This section is a combined high score list for all games. LanMIK had the right idea on our forums, but a forum post is hard to maintain. The dedicated page makes it easy to see all scores in one place, and thanks to our site's database driven nature, the scores are also automatically listed on the game's and the submitting person's pages as well.
So, play a game, give it a try and submit your own score. Some things may be rough around the edges, so any feedback (Does the submission flow make sense? Are the layouts useful and coherent?) is appreciated. Game on!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-12-23
07:05:47
 | Re: Hall Of Fame
Nice one Csabo, love how it's all intertwined with the whole of the data base and a very cool podium picture! 
The picture & notes icon is cool. How about adding a little Movie Reel ribbon or clip board icon that links to replay's on Youtube?
I think my current best for Ikari Warriors is this:
Score: 166400
Replay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HF7-k2Kxo
Your welcome to use my scores from any video's I have done and even add direct links on game pages to them as they are not going any where. I don't need crediting for them, they can be used as a guide to completing what ever games I have recorded.
A handful here: http://www.youtube.com/user/c16plus4gamer
I know Sixteen Plus has a load too, but I guess wait and see what he has to say about all this first.
Nice new addition to the site and well implemented, as long as Sixteen Plus is happy then cool.
Cheers for now. 
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Posted By
George
on 2012-12-23
09:19:59
 | Re: Hall Of Fame
Great Idea.
Its good that i kept my high scores from my youth in the 80's.
My Favorite Game was Formula 1 at that time, which i played without joystick!
Yes, exactly ..
I have my scores fr0m Wintergames. It would be interesting to compare them to the others:
Biathlon: 2.49.2 Min
Slalom 20.5 Sec
Ski Jump 185,7 m
Speed Skating 21.4 sec
Downhill 30.0 Sec
I found no way to put it in the Hall of fame.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2012-12-23
13:12:01
 | Re: Hall Of Fame
Well I guess that it was only a matter of time, I wondered if it'll ever happen and so long as
it gains more interest in the gaming side and competition then it's cool with me (it's up now anyway).
Let's wait and see what admin Chris has to say about it lol.
Anyway, do the scores already on the C16 Hi Score Challenge count?
Edit: Ah yes, I see that they do 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-12-23
14:23:38
| Re: Hall Of Fame
This was one of the things that I wanted to do for a while BTW, even before it was posted on our forum, just never got around to it. Now I have some free time and it was fun to do. (Not that it's important, but I'm most proud of the way the tables "expand" if you have JavaScript, and display normally if you don't. Plus/4 World still works fine with even some of the oldest browsers.) The forum posts on commodore16.com have the same problem, it's hard to oversee what the actual scores are, they can be scattered and are not in order.
George, your BMX Racers score was weak, I beat it in about 5 tries Though I'm sure my score will be shattered soon enough when some of the hardcore gamers get to it.
So, in terms of features:
1) Adding a video link is probably a good idea. Should it be either screenshot or video, or both? I'm thinking maybe both...
2) I designed the tables to be flexible enough to hold scores that are non-numeric, and figured that this will come up sooner or later. Winter Games is one example. If you have suggestions on how we should tackle this, let me know.
3) One other thing that I want to add but haven't, is that everyone can have only one score per game. Does that seem fair? Otherwise Tom Thumb would have 100 MIKs before you could see one name that is different
I also want to make the records editable for the person who holds them. That's all I can think of at the moment.
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Posted By
George
on 2012-12-23
15:45:07
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Hi Csabo,
the scores are about 30 years old. I have no idea now, how hard it is for us now, to break them on a real machine with keyboard or an 1532 Commodore Joystick or on an emulator. I am glad, that i encouraged you to break BMX racers Score. Isn't it fun? I like that kind of competition.
My suggestion for Wintergames: It should be split in 6 single games, to match your Edit-Form. Because it is a compilation of 6 games. I don't rembember if there was a total score in this game. Your combobox could list: Wintergames: Bialthlon, Wintergams: Slalom etc... I don't know how difficult it is.
Another suggestion: Everyone should have only one best highscore. But perhaps everone can post and keep more then one high-score, if he beats his own highscore. The Toplist-Query should return of course the best highscore of one person. The advantage would be, that you can see, a history in progression in a game of one person. I know, thats nothing that can be programmed in a few minutes.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2012-12-23
15:26:05
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Guys! I love all this and now is the time to watch "The King of Kong" that I have referred to in an earlier post of mine. But now I have the Youtube link to the full movie right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTtPpYBgtqI
Enjoy!
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2012-12-23
22:28:09
| Re: Hall Of Fame
The scores are indeed scattered around within individual game threads in the Commodore 16 hi-score area. This is why MIK suggested to have a Latest Scores Table page where moderators and admin are able to update whenever someone posts a hi-score in a game thread.
@George
Not sure what you mean, but I think we should be able to have as many hi-scores as we'd like and beat our own ones too.
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Posted By
George
on 2012-12-24
08:12:47
| Re: Hall Of Fame
@Sixteen Plus
I mean, ther should be two lists.
1) the public list (as it is now). Where you can see your best hight score in comparison to the other people
2) A personal list: where you can see the progression of your High scores with date.
@Csabo: Perhaps the date of the score should be displayed too. To see when the Score was achieved.
I really love this "Hall of fame" idea.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-12-24
06:25:17
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Lets get one thing straight. It's Winter Events or Winter Olympiad if you have the Kingsoft release, not Winter Games... 
As Csabo said first of all your best and most current score should be listed only, so that's one top score for each person per game. This way things stay clean and tidy. If you wish to keep more as a log of your plays then buy a paper notebook & pen as I have.
I guess you could even use your own personal page here on the site for adding notes such as logs of all your scores if you wanted. There is an add notes option if your a member on your own page, not that I have used it personally yet.
A picture or video of your best score would be nice.
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Posted By
George
on 2012-12-24
08:10:05
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Winter Games is my working title, because i can never remember the exact title name.
I think, everybody knows, what i mean, when i write Winter Games.
@MIK: Great Formula One Score. I thought i was pretty good in this game at that time. There is always one in life, who is better.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-12-24
22:32:18
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Csabo I see you have been busy adding "edit", "add" & "Rank".
Does "add" allow us to add our own scores to current listed games?
What does "Rank" do?
Cheers,
@George
Nice score too on Formula 1 Simulator, in fact I believe you could beat mine if you got back into it!
As you may of seen in my video replay it's not the perfect run so plenty of score to be had out of it yet beyond mine.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2012-12-25
10:54:03
| Re: Hall Of Fame
There's absolutely no point adding my Auf Wiedersehen Monty score as it can only be equaled
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-12-26
20:42:14
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Hey MIK,
Those two links only show up for admins But yes, [ add ] is a shortcut to add a new record. The other one, [ rank ], forces the re-ranking of scores for the given game. This is normally not needed, only if a record was manually edited.
I added the normal [ edit ] links for everyone, and the video URL field. I have an idea on how to handle games like Summer Events, etc., I'll get to that one soon.
Other than that, I'm really glad that this feature has generated interest and positive feedback
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-12-27
03:41:43
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Thanks Csabo.
Indeed games that use TIME could be an issue and maybe the worst which might be best to forget about could be G-Man. It uses distance as well as time, and of course once you complete it the distance is then fixed leaving the quickest time as the place of order.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2012-12-28
02:27:03
| Re: Hall Of Fame
A photograph or video as evidence I believe should be mandatory, not optional. No excuses as it's very easy to do nowadays anyway.
I'll give the evidence for my scores today
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-12-27
19:18:17
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Motorcycling? Super-soldier shooting enemies? Spaceships? Pshaw, Oblido is where it's at. I mean what kid doesn't dream about shoving each and every colored box to neatly into own cozy place?
Just posted my new score. I was actually going to stop playing, I figured that 1 million would be enough when I actually bled out on level 1. Severe finger and wrist cramps The play time was 3 or 4 hours... Should have looked at the time I guess.
So there!
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Posted By
George
on 2012-12-27
21:14:11
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Congratulations Csabo. I am glad that you broke the record, proving its possible. Because i am not able to break my own record any more...
Oblido is my favorite Game, since i played it again after all this years. Extremly difficult and challenging. Should be integrated into NASA's test procedure for new astronauts.
Does any port for other systems exists?
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2012-12-28
03:00:09
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Oblido is more Oblidon't in my books. I just could never get anywhere that far on it 
Edit: Just added Big Mac (I'm sure I'll add more pretty soon). I'm pretty impressed with Kincsi though (whoever he may be) on Timeslip.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-12-28
06:34:50
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Me and a school friend had a soft spot for Oblido but we could never get far, not even far enough to notice it had a bug that needed fixing! Loved the catchy jingle tune it has too. Congrats Csabo on reaching level 9, crazy score!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-12-29
16:44:10
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Thanks I added dates to the main view. I've been having fun with the games again in my free time and submitted a bunch of scores as a baseline. I'm still 2nd and 3rd for several games (undeservedly).
Keep waiting for the Kikstart videos/scores from MIK and Sixteen Plus. Has to be all levels completed with no lives lost and one hand behind your backs of course.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-01-22
12:56:20
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Haha! There is no rush, plenty of time to practice and pick at the games when you can. Some I never sort of stopped playing or went back to many times since the dawn of time of it's creation.
Indeed if people need some where to host screen shots then use:
http://tinypic.com
You can upload straight from your web browsers and your get a number of links and even a direct link to your picture which you can then add onto the HOF page.
You do not need an account or need to make one to use tinypic.com
Don't forget you need not worry about what other people have or have not scored, it can be a personal goal to try and better your self, a chance to enjoy the game and maybe see more of what you may of missed back in the day. Some of these games are fun too.
Edit:
Just done my first submission for the game Paper Boy, score nothing special any way. Just thought I'd say nicely done Csabo on how we add a submission, simple and easy. Quality! :)
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-01-22
15:56:59
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Added mine... Over 16000 is nothing to sneeze at! The game is pretty unforgiving about where the logs (fine, papers) end up splatting. Maybe if I have more time I can do better.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-01-22
20:48:58
| Re: Hall Of Fame
*** Game Play Spoilers for Paperboy below ***
When you get more time have a couple of more plays and your soon figure out the whole street is repeated with-in the one road. By then your have the paper delivery timing spot on and once you work out a safe route your be on a roll.
Small tip:
You can hit wall lights and wall mounted plant boxes on houses your are meant to deliver too for bonus score without penalty! Kinda cheeky buy yeah they will not cancel the paper the next day. Just don't hit your customers windows by mistake.
I can't remember completing it, however I rate Paperboy even tho I never ever play it very much. I gave it a 9 vote and tho it is slow-ish to play overall it was a valiant effort all the same! A little underrated by some me thinks but it is also a love hate game I'm sure.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2013-01-24
05:48:45
| Re: Hall Of Fame
NTSC machines are 7% slower than PAL ones. This gives an advantage to US gamers. Should NTSC scores be reduced by 7%?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-01-24
15:10:40
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Hmm, wouldn't that depend on the game? I think any game where the engine is tied to the screen refresh would run faster on NTSC, because 60 frames would happen in one second, not 50. So therefore playing it on NTSC is harder...
But regardless, I think the scores are fine to be left as-is for both PAL and NSTC.
BTW, thanks for submitting your scores Litwr
In the guidelines (which only appear on the submit page), I mentioned that only original games should be used. So, according to that, I was forced to delete Kincsi's score for Bandits++. (I don't have info on him, hence the public announcement.) Please resubmit for Bandits at zero
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-01-24
15:45:35
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Litwr,
What skill level did you play Runner on? Would be cool if you could add this info on your notes as a reference.
In my little red note book I have in the past scored 16596 on Skill (5) for Runner. No evidence so won't add it of course.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2013-01-25
00:50:16
| Re: Hall Of Fame
[Csabo] See IstvanV message at forum/14463#14477
See also all calculations at http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44377&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
So I was a bit incorrect. NTSC machines are about 8.77% slower - it is very good advantage! This has no link to the frame rate - it is the raw CPU power. BTW NTSC C64 is faster than PAL C64 but only for 0.54%.
[MIK] Sorry I have only my paper notes 25 years old. I didn't record used skill level of Runner. I am only almost sure that it was the default one (=5). My high scores are not very good... The only exception is Xargon Wars - it was not easy. Cuthbert In The Cooler and Space Pilot were also hard. I hope that you will add your great result for Runner to the Hall of Fame.
BTW It is very easy to cheat. Everybody may run emulator at 50% speed. ;-(
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-01-25
07:14:04
| Re: Hall Of Fame
I thought you played Runner recently, never mind.
I would not worry about people cheating as it's only an incentive to wipe the dust off the old games and have some fun. Those that may cheat are only spoiling things for them self as there is no prize for the top scores. If it makes you dig a game out to play that you used to enjoy then job done in creating the leader boards in the first place.
As for machine speed differences then how come once we reach the 16bit bit era and mostly talked about with consoles is that NSTC hardware runs 17.5% faster than 50hz PAL? This is true of course so strange how this rule does not work for 8bit machines.
By the way...
I have no issues if people use emulators or NTSC machines. Some people do not have access to the real things and seeing as most games that will be played were made in PAL Land aka 50hz regions then your want to play it as close to the real thing as possible would you not? 
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Posted By
Hans
on 2013-01-25
09:14:19
| Re: Hall Of Fame
@MIK: Full ACK, MIK.
I prefer the emulator anyway since I don't have a colour monitor (just a monochrome green one), and the TV screen sometimes is way too flimsy, in particular when "fast" action is to be done.
My handicap is, however, that I don't keep a proper joystick adapter. My trials with a PC joystick have failed so far. Alle emus I tried didn't accept the PC stick - could be that the stick is faulty.
Fast games like "Winter Games" are a real painful finger twister when trying to emulate the joystick by keys....
So, it'll take some more time until I can qualify for a Hall Of Fame entry...
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2013-01-25
09:34:32
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Sorry Litwr, but I think you're mistaken. Like I said, the speed difference will depend on how the game is implemented. Case in point: if you have a chance, try Treasure Island on both PAL/NTSC. The NTSC version is noticably faster. Compare how long it takes for the character to run across one screen. It's because that game is tied to the screen refresh. 60 fps vs 50 fps = 60 is faster.
I'm sure you could find a game where the NTSC version is actually slower, but it seems like most commercial games (the ones I checked at least) are PAL only anyway.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2013-01-25
10:40:53
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Csabo is right: all the better games had implemented "VSYNC" to avoid flicker which makes NTSC games much faster all else unchanged.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-01-26
00:53:04
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Hans,
Always worth trying to get hold of a USB 9pin joystick adapter as these are great and work with any 9pin joystick or game pad from Commodore to Sega and more.
But if your stuck for finding a USB 9pin joystick adapter you could always use a USB XBOX360 control pad as they are plug and play on PC's today..., if your happy to use a game pad that is as I know they are not for everyone. Most of the cheaper 3rd party pads are fully wired. Windows creates the drivers so no software needed and Yape will use these. Thumb Stick or D-pad can be used for direction and (A) button can be fire.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2013-01-26
03:37:18
| Re: Hall Of Fame
[Csabo, Gaia] You may write a simple Basic loop and run it with timer at NTSC and PAL machines. This test proves my point. However if program synchronizes itself with VSYNC then it is 20% faster with NTSC computer. Are there programs which run at equal speed far PAL and NTSC? It is easy to do this with vertical line register and PAL/NTSC bit.
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Posted By
siz
on 2013-01-26
05:51:04
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Litwr: most games don't use full time processing that depends on CPU clock speed but - as Gaia mentioned - to avoid screen flickering they sync every action to screen refresh. And that is faster on NTSC machines.
For example there is a raster interrupt at the bottom of the visible screen and the interrupt handler queries the controls (either joystick or keyboard) moves the sprites, refreshes the screen, plays music and does everything else that is needed.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2013-01-26
11:01:57
| Re: Hall Of Fame
[siz] Did you note the phrase "if program synchronizes itself with VSYNC then it is 20% faster with NTSC computer". So your message or my English is a bit odd... Sorry if the mentioned phrase has unclear meaning.
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Posted By
siz
on 2013-01-26
11:42:55
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Sorry, Litwr I did not read your message thoroughly. :/
I just wanted to say that you are right about the CPU clock but most games use the method I wrote. But for example games written in BASIC (whether it's compiled with AustroSpeed to assembly or not) will not sync to VSYNC and are faster on NTSC.
To your question: I don't think that even one of the programmers would have cared about speed difference between PAL and NTSC. Probably on C64 where there were separate PAL and NTSC releases of the same game they adjusted the speed to the appropriate standard.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2013-01-27
02:15:09
| Re: Hall Of Fame
I wonder how Rug Rider behaves... it is not vsynced as far as I can remember and it was one of the very few games written originally for NTSC.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2013-02-02
05:59:57
| Re: Hall Of Fame
Rug Rider belongs to us now in the land of PAL. Cool unique game that never was - over here - but now is.
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