Posted By
Unreal
on 2012-02-02
06:42:41
|  Last Ninja questions
Today I have some nostalgic times, and looked Last Ninjac64 on youtube. I always interest this idea, there is a way - just a thinking - to convert this game to Plus4? Or there is a LOT of sprites in the game, and impossible to convert?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2012-02-02
06:54:00
 | Re: Last Ninja questions
Everything can be converted in some ways. What can differ is the degree of acceptable compromises. See for example Sanxion...
(OT: I still have those GTWs to upload here ;) )
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Posted By
KiCHY
on 2012-02-02
13:38:29
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Converting the C64 version with the ~same visual enjoyment is impossible. The c64 version uses 3 different colors per char, plussy has only 2... And one color of the 2 fixed colors should be black (for player, items, enemies) which also does not help the graphician because there are levels where almost no black in tileset. This means plussy should use 2+1fixed colors for graphics and 1 fixed (black) for objects.
Check Integrator on CSDb how the c64 bitmap built from tiles.
Anyway, we could have a Last Ninja +4 if we develop our own version and doesn't try to compare with the C64 version. If you check the BBC Micro version, it uses multicolor graphics with 4 colors (starting level: green, yellow, red, black). Ours could be far better than that!
Or the Spectrum version which uses monochrome graphics... I prefer the BBC micro version of these two...
[EDIT]
There is also an Apple ][ version which is multicolor with only a few colors but different ninja graphics (than the BBC version).
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2012-02-03
07:53:56
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Have to agree with Kichy: The C64-version will be unconvertable. Just imagine: Hires-Sprites over Multicolor-Bitmap - the horror! What i didn't knew was there is a BBC-Micro-version. This could be a good starting point.
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2012-02-04
04:50:53
 | Re: Last Ninja questions
Partly ontopic, im thinking about the same with 'jetpack joyride' an iphone game by halfbrick studios.. 
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Posted By
Patrick
on 2012-02-04
11:14:43
| Re: Last Ninja questions
what about the Spectrum version? also usable??
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Posted By
TMR
on 2012-02-04
12:17:06
 | Re: Last Ninja questions
i think that Pete Dabbs (JCB/Meanteam) has pulled apart the BBC version previously and got bits going on the Atari 8-bits, might be worth talking to him perhaps?
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Posted By
Unreal
on 2012-02-06
05:49:35
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Yep, hires characters, and it can be convert to lowres, maybe... it will be a bit ugly but...
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Posted By
MMS
on 2012-02-08
18:30:17
 | Re: Last Ninja questions
I just checked the BBC Micro version.
I had the good old CGA gfx quality level in my mind (hat has also 4 colors, black, white, pink and light blue), but BBC Micro 4 color version is absolutely not so bad...
Plussy could do it better, and we also have SID music, right? It means it would be better than the Amiga, PC NES and Apple2GS versions, just because of proper music (I dunno, if TED SID digiconverters are possible during gamplay? possibly not...)
Strange enough but I prefer the ZX Spectrum to NES or PC version, I mean: GFX nicely done with details and speed is there. NES is half hearted, PC version is slow.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-02-09
05:36:16
 | Re: Last Ninja questions
WOW those screens look AMAZING!!! 10/10
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Posted By
MMS
on 2012-02-09
09:25:57
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Hi,
First of all, the converted / modified pics looks great. I have one questionmark, if GFX conversion is a faithful reproduction of the picture we wil see on the screen?
In case we use the multicolor charset, doesn't we have more limitation than in case the multicolor GFX? Maybe I am wrong, but:
-Multicolor charset: the background is common, and for the complete charset two more color is fix, and we definitely have only one free color per 8x8 pixel.
-Multicolor gfx: background and 3rd color is the same, and we have TWO free colors per 8x8 pixel.
Or the Last Ninja builds up the screen from GFX blocks, stored as bitmap, and not from charsets?
(BTW, if I remember well, C64 charset is also double size as Plus/4, as also includes inverted characters, while Plussy generates it ourself. or maybe I am wrong again...)
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Posted By
Unreal
on 2012-02-10
09:36:51
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Kichy: woow, not so bad shots!!! great
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Posted By
KiCHY
on 2012-02-10
16:34:37
| Re: Last Ninja questions
>if GFX conversion is a faithful reproduction of the picture we wil see on the screen?
Yes, in the final production we could see the same quality. The difference would be the locations of color clashes. The converter uses some kind of optimization (which has info about the whole image), and the game could do only a "local" optimization when a color clash happens (for example, keep the brighter/more contrast/etc colors on screen). So the overal quality would be the same but you could find the color clashes in different locations. (At first though...)
>In case we use the multicolor charset, doesn't we have more limitation than in case the multicolor GFX?
We really should use bitmap mode for the game... We could build the game area from (multiple /w irq) charactersets, but this solution brings so much problems that we can only win with bitmap mode.
>Or the Last Ninja builds up the screen from GFX blocks, stored as bitmap, and not from charsets?
Yes.
>C64 charset is also double size as Plus/4, as also includes inverted characters
Yes, C64 characterset ROM lays at $D000-$DFFF, but that doesn't mean it can use 512 different chars against Plussy's 256 characters.
http://www.htu.tugraz.at/~herwig/c64/charrom.php
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Posted By
MMS
on 2012-02-11
16:56:28
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Hi, thanks for the detailed answers!
Then it is just great I checked in more details the pictures, and only at the Sewers level I see color clashes I may notice during gameplay.
The 4th picture ( Buddha with the gate) just look fantastic...
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Posted By
Epy
on 2014-06-19
18:19:52
| Re: Last Ninja questions
I don't know somebody has seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htPtg9kZ9tI
Is this fake?
Oh, I can see Ati made this: http://plus4world.powweb.com/forum/24951/Games
Congratulation
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2014-06-19
18:16:37
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Yeah, we've seen it, Ati (the author) posted it here on the forum: http://plus4world.powweb.com/forum/24951#27504 (You can search for the video code - htPtg9kZ9tI - on the site, you'll get a hit on the forum.)
But it's so cool that we can mention it again
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Posted By
MIK
on 2014-06-19
23:37:01
| Re: Last Ninja questions
+1
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Posted By
MMS
on 2014-06-22
16:43:42
| Re: Last Ninja questions
The BB Micro version is surprisingly good despite the 4 colors
But there is something wrong there.
The Youtube video evidently shows a 160x256 screen with 4 colors (double width pixels, and I also counted them to be sure ) So it is mode 5. 4 colors with 160x256 resolution
But as I see on Wikipedia, the 160x256 resolution could be linked with 8 colors too (mode2), or the 320x256 resolution with 4 colors (mode1) could show more details. Both would look much better than this.
(just one idea: they wanted to have a version work with 32K RAM BBC Micro,in this way they freed up 10KB for the code instead of using for the gfx. I think it was not a wise decision, although i do not know how much % of the machines were only with 32K)
Anyhow, our 160x200 version should look better due to more colors, although BBC vesrion also looks all right
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2014-06-23
01:54:08
| Re: Last Ninja questions
BBC Micro is one of the best 8-bit home computer. It is sad that guys from England were weak in the marketing. It is curious why it has only 8 colors? 160x256 graphics allow 4 bits per pixel which mean 16 colors...
ATI demo is very good but the quality of C64is unreachable for other 8-bit computers. I only doubt for CPC6128 - it may give almost the same graphics but poorer sound. It is very odd that CPC version was not released.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2014-06-23
04:46:40
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Flashing color bit! They halfened the color quantity due to that "bloody bit" given for the (tele)text mode to able to distinguish the normal and flashing characters.
Like in our case, why we have only 121 and not 256 colors. (8 luminance levels instead of the 16 possible). And finally almost noone used that option. BTW I would be happy with 8 luminance too if the black would have been more that 1, and would be 32 colors instead of the 16 (that would be almost Amgia 500 palette, eh! what a great possibility fo the microcontroller based emulation, haha, just dreaming)
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Posted By
Unreal
on 2015-12-26
05:36:16
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Hi Ati,
any work in progress on this game?
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Posted By
Ati
on 2015-12-27
11:29:38
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Hi Unreal,
I didn't code in 2015.  Sorry.
The standing: all of level 1 screen is ready (with some bugs), I redrew the ninja's running animations, it is a little bit smoother, new ninja death animation, and the ninja can pick up some items. On the Buddha screen the bird sprite flies. That's all I think. And there are some bugs in my code...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-12-27
12:35:42
| Re: Last Ninja questions
Ati, you didn't code in 2015 BUT! But if you release in 3-4 days a joke demo, maybe called "I Didn't Code in 2015" made in few hours only, you could rearrange this year 
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2015-12-27
17:41:39
| Re: Last Ninja questions
He have only an ipad, so it will be complicated but i'm with Ati!
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