Posted By
Exin
on 2006-04-18
14:30:54
|  From Breakpoint
Hi there from Breakpoint!
I feel very honoured being mentioned on this Site!
But i didn't "grab" a plus/4. I had it with me to Draw on other projects. I had some time so i could compete in the Theme Graphics. The bad thing was, the Image was rather dark on the Bigscreen... I was not the only one with a Plus/4 there. Someone showed one off, but he didn't have any software with him so i copied him some disks with Demos. Maybe I made himinterested into this beautiful machine. Anyways, expect hearing from me again. 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-04-18
21:46:14
| Re: From Breakpoint
Hey Exin,
Nice to see you around How did you find Multi Botticelli? Was is somewhat limited? When you draw gfx for the C64, do use PC tools or native C64 tools?
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2006-04-19
05:23:15
| Re: From Breakpoint
Oh, I remember you from the IRC channel. Nice that your "secret project" finally took hold You found Multibotticelli a bit problematic with joystick right? Could you elaborate on that a bit please? There are fellow hackers here that can possible fix this for ya 
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-04-19
06:12:50
 | Re: From Breakpoint
Joystick? Ah!
The MultiBotticelli is great also because you can use to the fantastic keyboard cursor arrows. That's the closer way to mouse or hand usage.
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Posted By
Exin
on 2006-04-19
14:16:48
| Re: From Breakpoint
Hehe, so many questions.
I try to answer them in the right order.
Csabo: Yes, the things that are getting on my nerves with Multi Botticelli are:
-The cursor is awfully slow and not adjustable like in Tedpaint
-The Pattern-painting is forgotten everytime i change the drawing mode
-the cycle mode is a bit slow too, i'd rather like to change the colours with 1234 and enable or disable changing colours
Things that are limited:
-No Colour grabbing mode, it is always hard to find the colour that i wanted to continue (right now im used to it and can guess the colour good) but other won't be good when beginning!
On C64 i use for the following Graphics modes:
-Multicolour: Interpaint with amiga Mouse
-Hires: Arstudio 1351 with the 1351 mouse.
-Hires FLI: Afli by bitbreaker of Metalvotze and Gamepad
-Hires Interlace: Hireslace by Oswald of Coma?/Resource?
I recently used Hires FLI interlace, with ECI Editor, but that one doesnt show both bitmaps in the zoom mode, i had always to guess what i do, si i dont use it much anymore...
For C64 drawings, i don't use any PC tools, they are way too difficult and not really close to the original colours.
Gaia: I had a Joysytick-Mouse with me that worked fine on C64, but it didnt move at all on Plus/4 with the Joystick-Adapter.
Maybe you know how to make it work? Or even make amiga-mouse work on it through the adapter? Or at least make the movement faster/Adjustable.
I'm in contact with Skoro anyways. Tell him please that i'm still doing the graphics but they are only many fullscreen graphics for now.
Luca: Actually, before i had the Adapter, i held the Plus/4 in my hads a little like a GameBoy. It was okay this way.
Anyone can make a SID Card for me please? OR a 256KB Expansion? I would pay 20 € for each one.
Also, if someone's willing to make a C64-style Graphics Editor for me and other, i'd be glad to help. But i cant't code very well.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-04-19
14:54:17
| Re: From Breakpoint
The real mess with Multibiticelli for me, is the weird way it draws those damn asymetric circles. 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2006-04-19
15:15:20
| Re: From Breakpoint
It's cool that the C64 has so many choices in existing gfx apps. The Plus/4 front is way behind as you can see. I don't think we will see any gfx tools on our platform ever - at least not as native apps. To modify an existing app is a lot of work, disassembling is just the first step. To make these kind of changes you really have to understand, learn the application - too much time. Write new apps is also a major undertaking.
On the PC front it's a bit different. We already have PixelShop. The author's site has disappeared (common in our scene), and it's not open source. I have a little drawing program as well, but it's not ready for prime time. The advantages on PC are quite obvious though: fast performance, mouse or keyboard, nearly unlimited undo, fast zooming etc.
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2006-04-19
15:51:15
| Re: From Breakpoint
Gaia: I had a Joysytick-Mouse with me that worked fine on C64, but it didnt move at all on Plus/4 with the Joystick-Adapter.
The 1351 mouse powers up in proportional mode by default. To use it in joystick mode, hold down the left mouse button when you turn the computer on.
ArtStudio 1351 on the C64 uses the mouse in proportional mode.
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Posted By
Exin
on 2006-04-19
17:26:06
| Re: From Breakpoint
Hi!
Csaba: Well, there are many very easily made, small editors for the C64, where just the interfacee could be taken and the rest could be rewritten. I'm not talking about an other Botticelli. Rather something like FED in MSDOS. I'd really like this app on a real Plus/4. Because i enjoy the nice interface, menues and other stuff. I even did some pics with it.
Anyways, i don't really like PC Ediitors. It always makes me use 2 computers for one picture. I'd rather do the stuff natively on its own machine. Its already bad enough that the colours aint the same on a commodore monitor and a S-Video monitor, nooo, also the confusing mess of combinations of different Gamma values in monitors, wrong digitized colours...etc...
The Plus/4 has a very fragile colour generator. Not even linear. lets keep it to the original.
JamesC: I'm talking about two completely different mice.
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Posted By
bubis
on 2006-04-20
06:37:33
| Re: From Breakpoint
Regarding BP, if you check the "Error 23" C64 demo, you will find familiar effects in it.
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Posted By
Exin
on 2006-04-20
06:56:28
| Re: From Breakpoint
Bubis: Ofcourse, from Crackers Demo 4?
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Posted By
Patrick
on 2006-04-20
11:17:30
| Re: From Breakpoint
Exin, u asked for a sid-card, keep an ey e on www.commodore16.com i think chris is testing a new card now and it will be available really soon...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2006-04-20
14:00:00
| Re: From Breakpoint
bubis: in order to habe a direct referring to that effect, I uploaded on Pouet infos and linit about WATC single part release.
Patrick: I'm dr00ling for that SIDcard too Hope you had an help from Bionic.
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Posted By
Exin
on 2006-04-20
15:16:29
| Re: From Breakpoint
Patrick: Thanks for the info!
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2006-04-20
15:25:27
| Re: From Breakpoint
@bubis: I was at Breakpoint. To my disappointment the c64-demos were all prerecorded and played from PC - i don't have to tell the obvious side-effects that occur.
To my surprise the effects in "error 23" looked somewhat slower than your parts in CD4. Especially the tunnel. My impression was the tunnel is rendered in a higher resolution (zoom 4), is that true?
@exin: Sorry we didn't meet at Breakpoint.
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Posted By
bubis
on 2006-04-21
02:41:25
| Re: From Breakpoint
@Ingo: First of all, c64 is slower than Plus/4. But I agree, that the fence part was too slow, I don't know why. The tunel was slower because it is a zoom4 tunel.
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Posted By
Degauss
on 2006-04-21
08:21:05
| Re: From Breakpoint
I wonder if the tunnel is really in 80x50 resolution. I can tell why, but it looked as if the "odd" pixels were interpolated... Don't know really. (It's funny to have to opportunity to compare two demos with the same effects)
BTW: I didn't understand who the plasma works (or why it looks so good). It's awesome
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Posted By
bubis
on 2006-04-21
09:04:33
| Re: From Breakpoint
Yes, that tunel uses interpolation.
The plasma is Oswald's work. It is on a simple multicolor bitmap, but sets all the 3 colors/char according to the average value of the plasma in the character area. There are only a few coloring bugs, when the min(char) - max(char) difference is too big, so 4 colors would be necessary. Unbelievable, isn't it!
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Posted By
Exin
on 2006-05-17
15:00:15
| Re: From Breakpoint
Hi again, any prgress on the Sid Card?
Anyways, i work in swiutzerland, so not much internet...
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