Re: Giana Sisters! @SukkoPera Yesterday I had a bit of time to look at support of the 6510 adapter and I have no positive news. Without rethinking/rewriting the whole loader system there won't be support for the 6510. The current serial code heavily relies on the fact that writing data can be achieved by a ROL to enter the data into CPU port bit 0 and handshake via clock can be achieved by BIT $01 BVS/BVC and reading data by LDA $01 ASL. Although this could be rewritten but the code would be longer and I'd run out of the space allocated for the computer side of the loader. Sorry.
Re: Giana Sisters! Fire and spikes cannot be used together, because they are using the same characters in the set.
The animation flags are defining 16-characters wide screen sections to describe what kind of animations would you require for that level segment. When you place water element block to the screen but without the animation flag the water will not move. When an animation flag is scrolling into the screen from the right, it turns on the appropriate animation routine. The first 2 animation flags are executed by default because when the level is appearing from its leftmost edge at start, 2 animation flags have already scrolled-in from the right. All animation-related blocks should be placed after their animation flag. (The flag should be scrolled-in before the block itself)
Do not turn on unnecesary animations when the corresponding element is not on the screen, because it is eating up the performance.
You need to give time for fire block to be completely scrolled out of the screen before you turn on spikes animation.
And you cannot use more than 2 different type of monsters on the screen in the same time (no more characters left in the set to occupy space for more sprites)
Re: Giana Sisters! The technical details, like the color change below, can be learned as you create levels. Some blocks look weird on the surface level, with blue. but you don't have to use them.
how do the animated flags work? how do you use it? if I e.g. If you use spikes and fire and set the anim flag, the fire looks like red spikes. What do I have to look out for? how do you use the flags?
Re: Giana Sisters! Good to know that you found the provided information useful.
As you can see, the additional color for the ground-level graphics is coming from a raster-interrupted background color. This adds an additional layer of tricks, where some level elements should be handled in a special way when you place them onto the bottom part of the screen.
For example the vertical "pipe" block on your sample screen; they look great on the blue background, but the same blocks are a bit ugly on the bottom of the screen. There is a special type of "pipe" block which is recommended for the bottom part. That block covers the black background entirely and provides a seamless visual experience.
I needed to rethink many things based on the system limitations. Designing appealing levels is a bit more challenging on Plus/4.
Re: Giana Sisters! Nice progress For me, as a not-so-good player, there are still many levels to be seen, since I haven't been able to finish the game. Nevertheless I'm glad to see interest and activity.
Re: Giana Sisters! Short update. Levels (including opponents) can now be edited, saved/loaded and exported to the game format. However, there are still a few ambiguities regarding the animation flags and their correct application (among other things, this causes graphical errors when spikes and fire are used at the same time). Otherwise, the export routine will be optimized and various editing features will be integrated.
I hope that this absolutely brilliant Giana Sisters implementation will receive numerous custom levels - so that the fun can continue for a long time.
Well, thank you, TCFS for your kind informations about the level-files. At the first step, i am currently creating a level construction kit for windows. A first test can be seen above (well, the level shown makes no sense - it is only for testing purposes). I have to correct some image-sizes of your assets (the diamonds are wider ingame). But the first tests are running. maybe, i have to ask you some more questions via mail.
Re: Giana Sisters! At the moment sorry but no. I'm too busy with other things. Perhaps in the second half of the year. Is there any way to get such an adapter so I can test it?
Re: Giana Sisters! Sorry, I haven't received your email yet (my ISP has been having some issues unfortunately). However, you can contact TCFS via email by writing to "sasvarit", followed by the "at" sign, and then "idsyst(dot)hu"
Re: Giana Sisters! I have problems with the loader on C16 core for MiST/SiDi, it fails. I have asked to the support forum (https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=460414#p460414) but the developer slingshot ask for help (https://github.com/ishe/plus4/issues/3).
Just noticed your reply to my quibble - supposedly needing to select 1 or 2 player when you loose rather than just pressing fire. Well I'm happy to say, that only happened the very first session I played. Despite trying several scenarios I just can't reproduce it! I haven't got any idea why it happened & didn't expect it to never happen again after I mentioning it! Probably just some slight glitch with my Plus/4 rather than Gina Sisters (not loosing so quickly now anyway ).
Re: Giana Sisters! Meanwhile I'm registered here and have uploaded a video review from our livestream last Saturday. You can find it here at position 00:13:51.
Re: Giana Sisters! @dLst: it is a feature. Hi-res chars (bush) are masking with multicolor sprite (player). On-demand image chages are necessary in this situation to avoid appearance of foreign multicolor pixels on the bush.
Re: Giana Sisters! I can confirm that the game works fine on my 64k (actually 512k) expanded C16 with SD2IEC.
Well done guys, I used to hate this game on the Amiga because I always had the impression that they could have made it muuuch better on that platform, but this version feels very nice .
Just one suggestion: in games like this one (platforms) you might want to support my WheelOfJoyMini adapter, not for the multiplayer aspect but because it allows for a second button that makes everything better if used for jumping. Since supporting it is easy (just read the userport!) you might want to think about it .
I think that the "fixed kernal" @Ernesto is talking about is the modified kernal that allows using floppy drives when the CPU is replaced with a 6510. This only works for stuff that uses kernal routines for floppy access though, as @BSZ pointed out and fastloaders surely do not do so.
Even though 6510 adapters for me are just a temporary solution, it would be easy to fix a loader, so that a custom version for people using these adapters can be made. If we call Px the individual bits of the I/O port built in the CPU: - On an 8501 P0 is used for writing the floppy data line: this becomes P3 with the 6510 adapter - P6 is used for reading the floppy clock line: this becomes P5 - P7 is used for reading the floppy data line: this becomes P0
That's all!
(Floppy also uses P1 and P2 but these stay the same)
(Also note that the fact that P5 comes into play can probably be used for detecting the presence of the adapter: set P1 low and read P5, if it is high (there is an inverter gate inbetween) the adapter is there, as it always reads low on the 8501). So support can just be built into the loader, no separate version is strictly needed.)
Re: Giana Sisters! @Ernesto / @TCFS: Only programs using KERNAL will work with this 6510 CPU hardware. It is hardware incompatible with the original (7501/8501) version.
Re: Giana Sisters! I was playing via Vice although it says that Yape is recommended, as I'm currently away so using my Steam Deck.
I've just gotten to the first boss, but I lost a life failing to leap onto a narrow platform. Pixel perfection is definitely more a thing in the plussy version.
But on the C64 version, you can easily jump the crab boss without killing it nor yourself and exit the level safely. In this version, it feels impossible. That the only way to clear the level is by killing the crab, which you can't without firepower. Any tips if you lack firepower at this point?
Re: Giana Sisters! Ups.. then I may have a problem with my machine, I have an adapted 6510 CPU with a fixed kernal. Do you know if that can be the issue?
Re: Giana Sisters! It looks fantastic, but I can't run it on my C16 upscaled to 64K. Is it compatible with sd2iec? It locks up on the loading screen with the little Giana in the corner.
Re: Giana Sisters! I could reproduce it... if you're not loading with autostart or SHIFT+RUN/STOP but plain DLOAD and RUN it does indeed happen. Odd... (probably some cycle accuracy thing).
EDIT: yep, it's a regression bug :( happens since version 1.1.4 when the TIA port handling was rewritten, I'll post a ticket for a fix in the next version ;) Till then, use autostart OR 1541 mode OR a pre-1.1.4 release.
Re: Giana Sisters! Weird, I can't reproduce this. Have you tried deleting the yape.ini file (for a fresh start)? Also, out of curiosity, since you're using emulation anyway, why are you trying to use 1551?
BTW the loader was written by @siz, he's probably the only one would could debug this.
Re: Giana Sisters! @TCFS Thanks. A little difference just makes for a different challenge. One of my top C64 games I've spent many hours on, after Wizball. Beware the wrath of Sintendo though if they get a whiff of this port.
Re: Giana Sisters! @retroscener: That is not a bug, just a coincidence. Powerup sprites disappear after a few seconds when you don't pick them up. In that scene, George let the powerup rolling away and started to chase that, which disappeared just before the pickup.
When stomping a monster you should be more careful than on the c64 version. You need to land in the middle of the monster, touching its edges is deadly.
Re: Giana Sisters! @TCFS When he touched the first spinning ball powerup the first time, he still died when he jumped on a nasty. Another time he grabbed one, it didn't affect Giana. Can't recall anything else. Maybe just a very rare glitch.
Re: Giana Sisters! I went to search for my old forum login from an old backup just to comment on this. Unf*cking unbelievable witchcraft. Fantastic work, the whole package is just extremely well executed.
Hats off to you guys, what a great achievement. I would tell my kids about it if only they cared for anything that couldn't be bought with V-Bucks.
Re: Giana Sisters! The WARP blocks also work here. It would be nice if there was a trainer version for the game by Saturday, at least with infinite lives. Then I might even be able to show it as a longplay.
Re: Giana Sisters! @retroscener: what kind of powerup glitch have you seen on George's video?
The warp points are available in this version too, nearly in the exact same position (some of them are shifted with a few characters to match better to the capabilities of the modified physics) Chcuk Norris is able to utilize even better shortcuts, for example complete the game from right to left... (regarding to the infamous joke)
My name is not Armin, so obviously this is not the key combination for levelskip
Re: Giana Sisters! I'm not currently registered here, but I've been following the site for a long time, since around 1996, when I didn't even have my own internet connection. The Plus/4 was my first computer ever, which I got on sale in 1988 (without knowing it at first, before I got the C64 in 1989 and the Amiga in 1991).
Over the last few weeks and months there have been more and more high-quality C64 conversions like this published on this site that have blown me away, especially Lemmings, Turbo Outrun and now this one too. I would never have thought that a game that benefits so much from the C64's sprite capabilities could be made on such a machine and that it would play almost exactly the same. Only the scrolling is a little jerky, but that's completely okay. I also like the perfect SD2IEC support, which allows me to play the game on my original hardware (tested yesterday on an expanded C116 with 64 KB). Thank you for this!!!
For this Saturday (March, 9th) I have planned a live stream on our Twitch channel starting at 8:00 p.m. CET, but it will be entirely in German. If anyone is interested, I would be very happy to receive feedback in our Twitch or Discord chat, as well as a subscription.
Re: Giana Sisters! Wow, about time. I bought this back in the day on the C64. One of my best gaming memories. Pity the music from the C64's loading screen wasn't included. One of my favourite tunes. The music is great but obviously it could never come close to the C64's rendition.
Noticed some bugs with the powerups in George's video here. Hope it's fixed.
Noticed a thing on the Shortcuts in the Game Ending area. It says "Author says:"Only Chuck Norris has shortcuts. He can complete the game backwards."
Does this mean that the Giana Warps are missing from this version? Also, is the cheat mode included? I think it was holding down the ARMN keys to skip a level.
Looking like a great port asides from that. Would love to see Wizball, including the bonus level missing on the ZX version. Now that would be a challenge and a half.
Re: Giana Sisters! When we all thought things couldnt get any bigger than Turbo Outrun, this happens. What a game, what a legend, did the plus4 ever in its wildest dreams expect this, no . Thank you.
Re: Giana Sisters! @Tpod: interesting! On the high score table I am checking the status of keys 1 and 2 and the joy fire button (from both ports) to start new game. I have just tested and it worked for me well. Even the "fire buttons" from keyboard controls (return or m) advances the game to the new session from High Score Table screen...
Re: Giana Sisters! I've just had my first go at this & I have to say excellent releases in Plus/4 World are now a bit of a habit! Its the whole thing again that's so well done (even an option for music or sound fx).
I do have one minor quibble ... when you loose (which I'm good at), to start another game you have to get off your backside (if like me your sat some distance from the Plus/4) & go over to select a one or two player game rather than just pressing joystick fire (it will start that way for the first game though). Thought I would mention in case there is any kind of update .... perhaps it will motivate me to improve my skills either that or I'll continue to get a tiny bit of exercise so either way its no bad thing really .
Re: Giana Sisters! I was shocked first when I heard the title music which includes digi-sampling of the bassline. Formerly I used this player only together with static images (for example in the Raid over Moscow or the Empire Strikes Back), due to its requirement of precise timing (which prevents the player can be used together with raster interrupts). But later it was successfully managed to put together with the full-screen title scroller using a combination of double-buffered scroll and an $ff1d-synced scroll without any significant loss of music quality.
@seff, did you finally manage to check that using Win32/64 YAPE? I am afraid that this is more like an emulation issue...
Re: Giana Sisters! That remix of the original sound track is very cool! Not to mention the great initial screens, according to my view, much better than the original. Worth to mention Csabo's magic here: the TED sounds here almost as good as the famous SID song. Unbelievable. I was the one who cried for the original SID intro music to be included, but I had to admit: I was wrong... The TED version sounds great.
Re: Giana Sisters! Really impressive game! Congratulations to the whole team. I already made a humble review of this game with my first impressions on real hardware:
Re: Giana Sisters! That's weird, I tried it (again) just now with the same setup (YAPE, 1551 CPU level) - loaded just fine. Did you by any chance use ALT+W to try and fast forward the emulation? That is known to cause problems (which as far as we know never happens on the real machine).
Re: Giana Sisters! Interesting. Sometimes the 1551 does not turn off the motor and spins the disc during the entire game, sometimes it does not load...
Re: Giana Sisters! Great achievement! Love the SFXs and music! I can't get it to load on 1551 though. That little doll gets stuck in the right hand corner forever ;-(. All alone. Kudos to @TCFS, @Unreal and @Csabo!
Re: Giana Sisters! For completeness sake, we should mention that the Plus/4 scene was also part of the "Giana craze". The C64 version was released in 1987.
* Next year, Synergy released Giana Demo, which includes the entire game... the levels, that is. All we need now for a complete game is the sprites, right? * The year after that, Giana Sister was released. It's a basic game (pun intended), clearly inspired by the C64 original.
Giana Sisters! The Great Giana Sisters is a beloved classic on C64: a platformer heavily inspired by the "Italian plumber" series (that shall not be named). The game has incredible staying power: over 100 cracks of it exist (with new ones being released even this year), there's a PETSCII version, multiple level editors, a 30th-anniversary edition with lots of extras, tributes, the list goes on. Its soundtrack by Chris Hülsbeck is one of the most popular video game soundtracks of all time.
But wait a minute, why should we, lowly Plus/4 users care about all this C64 hoopla? Simple: thanks to TCFS, the game is now available on our platform as well!
Enemies to dodge, power-ups to collect, boss fights to overcome, hidden warps to find, and 30+ levels to complete: it's all waiting for you!
Re: Giana Sisters!
(I was too tired to waste time with shooting)
