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| | Previous Messages | Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-01-31
08:16:16
 |  Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Yep, seconded. I'm hoping this will reignite his interest for many years to come. I'm actually intrigued with his Space Ace conversion, a shame it got lost. If only other original coders came back onto the scene just as enthusiastically, even just as a personal side-project hobby. Oh well this is great news all the same 
Anyway, for such an apparently terrible unplayable game, it sure has acquired quite a lot of hi-scores here 
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-01-31
02:19:49
 | Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
That's a good thing overall: he's gonna do something he feels to afford for several good personal points, and this will be a big push to achieve his goal. We all root for your brand new Commando, Richard!
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-01-30
23:50:10
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Hmm. Why don't you both pop over there and ask him yourself?
--------------------------
Slightly shocking latest news:
Richard Ikin has angrily put his 1942 conversion on temporary hiatus for now as he has decided to first work on his Commando remake to put an end of all the old criticisms.
http://www.commodore16.com/forums/topic/1942-commando-c16
In the original games defence, I always felt it was judged a little too harshly as it is quite playable. I felt that it would have gotten better reviews and remembered more fondly if it wasn't released as Commando, and at budget price. Anyway, looking forward to the new version (and more) which everybody has been longing for from an original C16 legend
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2015-01-22
09:30:28
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
This is all so incredible, almost unbelievable. Can't wait to hear more news.
Also... still unclear on this, but do we basically now have confirmation that the game WAS in fact coded, just not released?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-01-22
08:57:25
 | Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
I was taking the mickey... If Richard has the original code from then, he is more than welcome to send it in as is... as well as making the new/completed version.
There is nothing to be glad about how much memory it uses, we get what we are given and we will be thankful regardless.
Just point him towards, Darron Broad's Tomcat and explain it's ok to make it a multi loader. If I could do it and it was for C16 I would be tempted not to have any land. Focus more with better gameplay, enemy patterns, ect... and make it kick ass that way.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-01-22
07:08:19
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Nah that sounds silly. Actually, 1942 Redux sounds about right as it basically means "brought back, restored", especially if he's working from any original code. Even if he's starting afresh it's the perfect name. If it is the original code, I would personally call it a recovered GTW anyway as that's what it would be
Well, I'm glad he's sticking with an unexpanded C16 version like the original was supposed to be. Nobody misses out then, and I find there's not enough decent conversions of top titles for the C16 anyway. The Plussy gets loads more now. Someone could always convert the C64 version over to the Plus/4 along with Airwolf64..... As there is already a Plussy version of Commando already, we could finally get a top C16 version of Commando Redux too, along with Airwolf Redux
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-01-22
06:44:02
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Great news even if it is wishful thinking and fingers crossed at this point in time... I would suggest that if he intends to make them run on an unexpanded C16 that he is limiting what can be done. If this is so then make it a point that he is more than welcome to make any of the them multi loaders.
EDIT: Baz, the original 1942 will not be removed as it contains evidence the game was once a reality and still on the wanted list, the intended 1986 version that is. The new version will have to be 1942 the Second Attack, or 2015 Special Edition. ;)
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2015-01-22
06:10:33
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
So what would it mean for the plus4world 1942 entry once finished. Will it be finally removed as a GTW seeing as its the original programmer working on it, especially if he's kept the source disks?
The other possible C16 projects sounds great. Finally a decent C16 version of Commando and Airwolf? I'm also still quite intrigued about Space Ace. That would have been a very odd exclusive release. Would have love to have known what it was like
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Posted By
Luca
on 2015-01-22
05:59:55
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Yes, we've occasionally talked about this change since some months, 'cause he's felt the push to come back working on some older machines, and...well, I've personally recalled that to him sometimes, after a period of not so healthy situations for him. And now, time has come. I'd suggested to him about showing both V1 of the game and the new one, just to see what Elite Systems had missed to release in that era.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2011-07-20
02:01:23
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Rob Hub on Atari ST. One of my fav's on 16bit. I actually paid to play this back when it first released. We had a shop in our city and all it had was Atati ST's & Amiga's with proper computer tables & correct system monitors for display, about 30 and you would pay for time on them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRitM0N0rJs
UK Home catalogue, also known as club books. I can't believe they sold old C16 in these things back then, wow! I would of thought they'd be more Game & Watch handheld stuff.
I guess the same can be said about the Argos book, they list stuff 6 months in advance and some stuff never see's the light of day.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-19
18:10:36
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
@Csabo
All I know is that it was a UK Home catalogue, the kind that usually consist of over a thousand pages. Now if only I could remember the name. It could have been in either Littlewoods, Fayes, Freemans etc...
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Posted By
TLC
on 2011-07-19
16:57:30
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Off: AFAIK RH has been doing tunes and fx for most platforms of the era (C64, Atari 800, Amstrad CPC, maybe the 128k Spectrum (haven't heard of his work on classic 16k/48k Spectrum), Atari ST, Amiga), then the Sega Megadrive (Yamaha 4-op FM), PC/Adlib and MT-32. I wouldn't call his early attempts very enhanced (in a technical sense) on most platforms (...honestly, not even his most popular early C64 tunes)... I'd call their arrangements average, in the best case (...no worse, no better). However, it's noticeable how he improved his skills from tune to tune, especially on C64... AFAIK he also coded his own sound routines himself (...and composed most of his C64 tunes in a ML monitor, entering notes as hexa numbers...). He's definitely a very good composer, and (looks like) he had the ability to create and complete stuff, with taking constraints (time, physical abilities) into account... wouldn't deny my envy of his creativity, programming skills, productivity, and ability to keep all that in balance...
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Posted By
MIK
on 2011-07-19
16:28:02
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Talking of Ocean, Hunchback II would of done well on our machine. I played that on C64 back in the day at a friends house. Was a neat game and something C16 could of done... I can hear the jingle in my head right now the game had haha!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-07-19
10:51:02
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Never heard of Roland's Rat Race, but I looked it up. It was out on C=64 and ZX Spectrum. If you did see it in a catalog, I'd say the chances of that catalog turning up is high. (The game? Not so much ) A lot of people keep that kind of stuff. We can also check the ads in old mags, I went through the list on World of Spectrum, but they were only for the above mentioned two systems.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-19
07:09:26
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Thanks, it just came as a complete surprise, someone else had actually asked about Harrier first which I answered, and that's probably how it started, so when he mentioned 1942 in particular and Space Ace, I had to ask more questions. If I didn't, I'm sure someone else would've
Anyway, while on topic of GTW's, I may have mentioned it before here a longtime back. I once did a search around for the lost Ocean games, but I had no luck with the Ocean forum.
Am I the only person in the world who clearly remembers Roland's Rat Race and Daley Thompson's Decathlon (as well as the ones we all know about) advertised for the C16 (as plussy4 wasn't yet released) in a 1984 christmas home shopping catalogue with photos of the game covers with the Commodore 16 logo, exactly the same as the other 2 lost Ocean games that were in there too?
I remember that the release dates the catalogue gave was all TBA. All the games were eventually released on the other systems in 1985, just not ours.
Except that it's logical to assume that Daley Thompson's Decathlon was later turned into Daley Thompson's Star Events. But Roland wasn't even mentioned in that early Commodore User ad.
Roland is indeed so much a GTW that I seem to be the only one who actually recalls it's existence lol. I feel that as well as the other Ocean games (discounting Decathlon/Star Events), they will more likely forever remain a complete mystery.
About old mutha Hubbard. Legend on the C64, and I think that's the one place he'll always be remembered for, especially after listening to that Sega Genesis track. Proof that less is more.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2011-07-19
05:34:03
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Sixteen Plus,
Even if 1942 does not show up...
It's cool you have some info at last all the same. Not knowing either way was worse. It's a Jack Pot moment just knowing it did/does exist so you did GOOD!
Rob Hubbard on C16 & Plus/4 might of been bad. He did some work for EA on Sega Megadrive with NHL Hockey and it was some of the worst on the machine, very painful on the ear's lol. Watch the credits for Music and Sound.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLbce8KU5qU
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-19
05:20:55
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
I had always felt that they were more or less finished by the controls they gave in the instructions, it's such a shameful waste by Elite (obselite more like).
if there ever were recreations of GTW's, it would be great to do them to fit inside the more humble C16 where first advertised for. Although it would somehow make it all feel like a ghost in the machine feeling there are maybe some lost originals still lurking around.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-07-19
04:02:12
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
As I pointed out in past discussions, 1942 and Space Harrier show very specific C16 instructions on the other system's manuals, data which have probably been sent from the coder to the publisher while the project was at alpha to say the least.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-07-18
21:58:07
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Lando, you summed up the C16 Commando games pretty well. Seconded! Especially about Ikari Warriors, it's highly playable, tons of fun. The fact that you can drive the tanks... It's the icing on the cake. One of the true wonders (in terms of what can be squeezed into the memory).
Yeah, it's a weird feeling now that we know more. I have to admit I was wrong, I'm pretty sure I said before that 1942 must have been just a typo. But apparently not: they really did plan to do it and had it contracted out. Pretty sad 
I keep thinking about doing a project and making the game, or a true Plus/4 worthy conversion of it, but that's never going to happen (well, not by me anyway, no time), and even then it just wouldn't be the same.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-18
20:50:33
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Yeah, a shame Hubbard never composed for our machines, although the closest we have to his work is his Auf-Weidersehen Monty tune, but just converted over (probably) by Jason Perkins.
In a way I wish we never found out about these GTW's now, as it's really made me more curious now that 1942 was actually finished, and that he isn't sure if he even has the disks still. I'm not sure what else we can actually find out unless he recovers them
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Posted By
MIK
on 2011-07-18
06:53:37
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Well I hope you can find out more. I love going back and finding out the real facts and reading stories of the past. So many fond memories of that era.
Gunlaw was a pig. A lot of luck and trying to work out the enemy patterns, or waiting for the right time so you would not get caught out. I never beat it, but got stuck in with laser fences and some alien invader ship might of been the reason for my inevitable death. I played it a lot on and off back in the day as I loved these type of games. I gave it an 8 out of 10.
Legionnaire was cool. The best of the day. Used to slow down at the end of the level with loads of enemies showing up. Was a little slow sure, but nothing like Who Dares Wins II slow. I have it 9 out 10 - remembering what else what was on offer of the genre. Tho really it should be an 8 out of 10.
I think Commando was over rated any way as a game (arcade or any home version). Ikari Warriors was the best! Commando more loved on C64 because of Rob Hubbard's work me thinks - his music rules.
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-17
15:12:27
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
It's hard to imagine Space Ace only making it to the C16/+4 and not the other 8bit systems but as they would've had to acquire the license to release it, there must surely have been other system versions too in development. Maybe they all got canned, it sounded like a great game on our platform though.
I really hope he finds the disks, particularly 1942. Elite really did us a disservice scrapping the games, and 1986 was our best most productive year. Maybe he wasn't able to finish to the deadline.
@Lando
I found Gunlaw too tough. I think you couldn't shoot diagonal in that either. For some reason I couldn't quite get into Legionnaire also, it looks great but I felt that was slow too. I don't know why, but I just found Ikari far more playable and the simultaneous 2-player mode was a real plus. I give that 8/10
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-07-17
07:38:24
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
Richard Ikin adds:
"Bit more info guys:
1942 - I started writing a version of this in 85/86 for elite but this was canned. Not sure why. I wrote my version later which I did finish, I suspect I used code from version 1! That never went anywhere, unfortunately.
Airwolf: There's my version of the game and an airwolf 2 which is nothing to do with me. I'm pretty sure I've seen another airwolf as well but I don't know who did that.
Space Ace: It was definately space ace not space harrier. I'm not confused between the two. Because of the c16 being the machine it is, it wad different to the laser disc game, with a mixture of platform/horizontal scrolling/vertical scrolling etc. This never hot finished but was playable. Space harrier existed but I'm not sure if it got finished either."
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Posted By
MIK
on 2011-07-17
05:28:43
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
With games like Legionnaire, Who Dares Wins II & even the 1.99 Gunlaw as 'thee' commando type games of the day in terms on quality and game play you can understand why I gave Ikari Warriors C16 an honest, fair and very worthy 4/10.
I still want a refund for it even now in 2011. haha!
That's the problem... Every one who rated it above 5/10 lied or never owned Winter Events. Elite could do no wrong on C64 and the first thing I did when I started work was buy a C64 with Ikari Warriors & Ghost'n'Goblins - dosh on the table. Man I was deprived as a child knowing what the C64 was running when it came to Elite. You can disagree, but voting for the same game more than once is illegal (joking). 
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-16
22:09:17
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
I asked him above to clarify the game just in case he made an error, he clarified then that it was the laserdisc arcade game Space Ace but I realise now that I should have made the question clearer by mentioning Space Harrier, as I had a strong gut feeling then that he had maybe confused the two together over the passage of time, and by the description he gives of the game which indeed sounds more like Space Harrier, the Elite advert also confirms this. His game description is also not remotely like Space Ace which never materialised on other 8bit microcomputers anyway.
I added him to my facebook friends earlier, I've now directed him straight to this topic through a PM and also put forward the questions. Maybe we can find out more. Maybe he still have working disks lurking somewhere, now that would be the biggest find yet, but at least it's interesting to know just how far he was getting with 1942 at least, it already sounds a helluva lot better than Reach For The Sky, and hopefully more on Space Harrier too if indeed that is the game which it does sound like.
He says he wrote Airwolf, and many more C16/+4 games, but the database only gives him credit for Commando. So there's some other games which can hopefully be resolved soon
@Lando
I disagree, as I feel Elite's Ikari Warriors was anything but a bad demo. It was a great conversion with the tanks, 2 player mode etc
It's only minor problem was that you couldn't shoot diagonal, but that might have made it a bit too easy.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2011-07-16
20:43:55
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace
I have to admit, the name didn't ring a bell, but I looked him up (he wrote Commando). If this is true... It's already an incredible piece of news. I thought we'd never get any confimation on it either way, but this... just fits.
I say: more please More info, clarifications, anything Maybe try to direct him to this forum...
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Posted By
MIK
on 2015-01-22
06:01:15
| Re: Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace
Nice reading. I so much wanted to replace the word "Ace" with "Harrier"... Did you ask just in case he was mixed up with something else?
C16/Plus4 was on a high in 1986 so to say the machine was dying is wrong in my eyes. Elite had shot them self in the foot from the very start with C16, tho Airwolf was a great surprise and a very nice game - the rest you know and was nothing more than bad demo's...
other than the AMAZING Paper Boy!! 
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Posted By
retroscener
on 2011-07-16
21:14:45
| Richard Ikin on 1942...and Space Ace/Harrier?
He's posted on Facebook and gave a little insight on the game. Also about a surprising unknown conversion on the laserdisc arcade game Space Ace.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/36175784480?id=10150265559239481
The conversation in brief:
Richard Ikin: I wish you guys could have seen the versions of 1942 and Space Ace that I did for the c16. Maybe my standing would be a little higher ;)
Me: Do you have any source codes or evidence at all lurking around? Please tell us all you know and why they got shelved
Richard Ikin: 1942 and Space Ace for the c16, I doubt if I've got anything left. Not sure. I wasn't at elite when I did them and they just got lost in a black hole cos the c16 was dying.
Me: No idea about Space Ace, can't surely be based on the laserdisc game. A shame nothing appeared though, any info you remember is still like gold dust to us lol. With 1942 did you get to do the plane-roll and power ups? How much do you remember? If you actually rediscover the disks, that would be a massive find
Richard Ikin: Space Ace, yes it was, sort of. Obviously the c16 was limited so I had to compromise. It was a sort of 3d scroller game. Re 1942, yes and yes
-----------------
I went on to ask him if he had finished the games, so far he hasn't responded. He also says that he programmed much more than Commando on the C16, including Airwolf. Not much information, but it's more than we probably ever thought we'd find on this lost Elite treasure. We also had a good lol about Commando too
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