| Posted By
Mad
on 2018-12-03
09:43:17
|  Noob question about ram packs
I already asked one very very reliable person and I think I got the right answer already. However I didn't find the reason why there was so much "fuzz" about 64k ram packs in the forum (if I do remember that right). These ram packs for the C16 do immediately boost the memory to 64k? No need for further hardware modifications? I am just asking, because I said that in an 4 hour podcast and don't want people to think, that it's harder to update a C16 to 64k than it actually is. The guys from the podcast said that they will put a note in front or some speech, if I deliver the proper information about that.
Parallax said that he owns a simple 64K cartridge by Kingsoft in the interview and that it easily works out of the box.. (And some famous plus/4 scener also confirmed that information already.)
Btw.. All the best for the last and the forthcoming advents! (hope that is not offending) 
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Posted By
MMS
on 2018-12-03
18:19:19
 | Re: Noob question about ram packs
I had a C16 in my childhood, and it was upgraded internally with a switch on the back.
(you know,some extra wires, cutting two tracks, etc)
I also did not really like drilling a hole, but it worked, and made professionally.
But I was always sure there should be JUST an extenal cartride, and Kingsoft is one of the examples. I am aware, that there were at least three or four different Hungarian made cartridges, and later on I personally saw few of them on Computer Christmas, mayb ~92.
On the Facebook forum there was a lt of discussion about this topic, and someone had some success, but it seems it worked only on NTSC machines.
Probably the DRAM updates (timing comes from TED?) had some issues when used with PAL machine, who knows, I am not an expert.
Anyone able to contact Solder?
He made RAM expansion to Plus/4, although I think he used Static RAM, they do not need refresh.
That may work with NTSC and PAL machines too. The speed of them is a questionmark for me, though. Mainly they are used as a RAM disc/backup (can keep their content with a battery), but I see no reason, why could not be used as a normal RAM, though they are typically more expensive than DRAM (like 41464)
A list of 64x4 DRAM version with different speeds:
http://www.amiga-stuff.com/hardware/64kx4-dram.html
I think I had some 41464 in my very old Trident card (in sockets), but probably sold them maybe 10 years ago.
I just found an interesting PCB with low power Static RAMs to replace the old 150ns 4532s used in ZX Spectrum upper 32K RAM, and equivalent to the 4164...
https://www.retroleum.co.uk/uploads/images/spectrum-upper_ram_pcb-only.pdf
Certainly the layout is different (?) but a nice idea.
https://www.retroleum.co.uk/zx-spectrum-chips
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Posted By
Mad
on 2018-12-03
17:36:50
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
MMS THANX!!! This information is a lot more, than I did know already.. So the Kingsoft Ram one seems to be without cutting the tracks etc.. Have to look if I formulate a correction text and if, how I do formulate it. Basically I said you always need to cut two tracks if you want to boost your C16 to 64k.. Thanx a lot for the info!
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Posted By
George
on 2018-12-03
19:47:59
 | Re: Noob question about ram packs
https://plus4world.powweb.com/hardware/64K-Ram_Kingsoft
Works without cutting, but you have open the c16 and place the platine into it. Read the instructions.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2018-12-04
14:55:08
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
This one states, just connect, and had 60671byte RAM
http://plus4world.powweb.com/hardware/64K-RAM_Speichererweiterung
Sooner or later we should ask Bill, why they called it "memory expansion" port, if so complicated to add a RAM module for C16/C116, and +4 RAM expansion is not existing in reality.
What was their original plan? If he still remember.
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Posted By
Mad
on 2018-12-04
16:42:48
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
Thanx MMS and George_, that's exactly the information that was needed. And apparently all on plus/4 world already, sorry for the troubles.. And thanks a lot for clarifying this topic (to me)!
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Posted By
MMS
on 2018-12-04
17:03:07
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
Welcome! That's why we are all here. 
(BTW it was not a noob question at all, there was a lot of dispute on this topic - hopefully I shared a reliable information)
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2018-12-05
00:42:34
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
MMS, regarding your question about the Expansion Port, go to Zimmer's CBM archive, open sheet 2 of Plus/4 schematics, look at CN4 pin Z (section B1-2) and start wondering.
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Posted By
George
on 2018-12-05
08:32:59
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
Mad You are welcome.
The Kingsoft RAM-Pack is even in Germany rare..i saw it once one on ebay and it went away for a high price.
Its the solution i would prefer anyway, because you won't block the cartridge port all the time.
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Posted By
George
on 2018-12-05
08:43:47
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
MMS http://plus4world.powweb.com/hardware/64K-RAM_Speichererweiterung
I read the instruction of your variation of your link. I says, that there is "a small" hardwaremodification.
Cutting a line on the motherboard..
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Posted By
Mad
on 2018-12-05
10:02:11
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
George Wow this little detail about the older C16 production lines I didn't see.. Interesting fact, perhaps that applies to other modules, too. MMS yeah perhaps Mr. Herd knows something about the more or less complicated memory expansion stuffs..
I think I just leave that interview like it is.. No need to make bigger trouble out of that in the interview only on 2 or 3 points mentioned fact. Parallax did most of the talking, anyways..
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Posted By
MMS
on 2018-12-06
18:50:17
| Re: Noob question about ram packs
gerliczer,
Interesting.
So the RAM Enabled line is not connected? Where it should have been connected to? a MMU?
UPDATE: check this out from Sodler page, RAMEN line ( :-? )
http://www.solder-synergy.de/plus4/hardware/makers/1meg.gif
George,
it was a little too German for me :-)
Mad,
OK :-)
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