Posted By
the777
on 2018-11-10
11:26:44
 |  what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
the spectrum doesn't have this either and it doesn't seem to make a difference. i mean do hardware sprites make any difference at all?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2018-11-10
11:37:52
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
The ZX Spectrum also has a 3.5 MHz processor, so doing software sprites is somewhat easier.
Hardware sprites are perfect for games! The C64 takes advantage of them in a big way. The Plus/4 just doesn't have them, which means games are a lot harder to code or port. It is what it is though, and it's not a "current hot topic" by any means  So what made you think of this just now?
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Posted By
the777
on 2018-11-10
11:41:03
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
dunno, just a thought ive been having
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Posted By
the777
on 2018-11-10
11:43:46
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
i see. so the processor speed lets it down? although that 6502 is risc processor and this one is running at nearly 2mhz.
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Posted By
Doug
on 2018-11-10
14:11:29
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
I think it's as simple as CPU cycles spent rendering sprites (and it quickly adds up when you have a lot of them!) are cycles not spent running the game logic. On the face of it, hardware will always be better in the performance stakes. That said, MOS and PR show just what can be achieved with super optimised code, and a smart coder! There's also the fact that hardware sprites are what they are - no flexibility. Soft sprites are, err, soft, so you can make them however you want, CPU cycles permitting. For me, it's a wash - I don't see the lack of hardware sprites as a massive handicap. It's a pain in the bottom for the poor coder, but there's (hopefully) more people playing a game than coding it.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2018-11-10
16:49:39
 | Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
nope, 6502 is CISC processor, with some really complex addressing command too.
8501 can keep up with a 4MHz Z80. When the screen is off.
Unfortunately due to shared memory (CPU and TED should reach the same locations in RAM), it sigificantly reduces the machine's speed.
But it is not so bad, the Plus/4 is rather capable and responsive machine.
SAM Coupe has a 6MHz Z80 CPU, and cannot manage properly it's screen (had some very nice formats), but very hard to manage scrolling or fast moving objects.
Beause of wait stages the machine was only 10% faster than the ZX Spectrum.
It was expected to be a "8 bit Amiga", Z80 fans waited for it like a messiah, but nope... Unfortunately.
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Posted By
the777
on 2018-11-10
23:56:19
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
the 6502 is pretty close to a risc though
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Posted By
Doug
on 2018-11-11
15:29:08
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
Close to RISC? Not really. Just three registers, and they are not functionally equivalent, plus complex instructions that combine both load & store semantics (inc for instance) pretty much excludes that. It's not strictly speaking CISC either. It's something else - it's own thing. That's what makes it special. I've seen it argued that zero page effectively acts as a register bank: you have fast (ok, slightly faster) access than general memory, and you can form and dereference pointers down there too. Yeah, kind of. But it's still not registers.
In terms of performance the 6502 gets more done per cycle than a Z80, with its simple instructions, so I totally get where the RISC/CISC debate comes from, but it's neither really.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2018-11-11
18:37:56
| Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
Kind of repetitoon, huh? What a strange coincidence
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2018-11-12
17:58:34
 | Re: what is all the fuss about the plus4 not having hardware sprites?
It's not fuss, it's a genuine disadvantage.
As others have said the CPU side of it is very time consuming.
Memory is a factor but considering most sprites are animated it's not a drastic, although still drastic, as it could be.
The HW Sprites can each be coloured independently also giving a more colourful display.
Plus of course you can multiplex them.
HW Sprites do make a difference, check out Uridium on the speccy compared to the C64.
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