| Posted By
Stinaris
on 2018-05-21
16:24:04
 |  How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
Hi,
I recently wrote 9/10ths of a game for the C16. Posted it everywhere I know and had 86 views and 16 downloads. I don't have time to complete it at the moment as I'm completing a course, but it's currently totally playable, albeit hard as nails (I love Jeff Minter games).
Gridiron was never going to set the world on fire, or even a small puddle of petrol, but it was my first output on the C16 and it's a complete game, albeit a simple one and written in 100% 6502 (7510).
Now don't get me wrong, 16 people downloaded it (1 of them may even have enjoyed it) and I'm very grateful to them for taking the time. But 16! And why didn't the other 70 download it. It's free FFS 
Is there really so little interest in un-expanded C16 games or was it so dire people took one look and vomited? :oD
I'm not looking for sympathy but I would like to target a larger audience than 16. Maybe if i'd targeted it at 64Kb I would have got 20 downloads .e.g 16+4 ;-P
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Posted By
Mad
on 2018-05-21
18:29:08
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
Not completely sure about this. I think our games sold around 30-70 times for each one (not sure about these numbers). So yes the current base is not the millions of computers you would expect. I think it's mainly a fun "hobby" to do games for this platform. Would be nice to be in the 80s again with these games, it could be that these 20 downloads is how it is nowadays. At least the youtube videos get a lot of attention if your game appears in some reviews. Dunno if that suits you. For me personally all is good if I have some fun whilst doing a game. All the best and perhaps taking advantage of 64k could really boost the appearance of your games.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2018-05-21
19:17:20
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
I was one of the people who downloaded it. I didn't have much to add to the comments of what the other guys said when it came out (too hard, having to restart the entire level when you die is off-putting), so I didn't comment. But perhaps I should have, it's not a bad little game and kudos for getting this far.
I'm guessing the views are either bots (more than half the internet traffic is bots), or people viewing the page multiple times, or abandoning the download when the $0.99 figure appears.
We (meaning... me and Luca basically) also saw that you wanted to collect donations, so instead of what we normally would have done, we did not add downloads to our site, in hopes that all traffic goes to you. Least we could do.
In my experience, the 16 downloads is about right. Maybe a little on the low side.
Mad, if you guys actually sold 70 copies... Wow, that seems very high to me, hats off and congratulations on that achievement.
I will grudgingly admit that the C=64 scene is much bigger than ours. Your game could easily be ported to the C=64, perhaps that's something to consider.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2018-05-21
19:42:38
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
Csabo, I'm confused. The download is free. I'm not asking anything for it?
LOL. Like someone would pay for that
I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect anyone else too either.
** Update **
Oh yeah, so it does. I don't remember setting it up to accept a payment. $0.99. What's that about 70p or 0.8 Euros.
Funny though as it's not worth 70p :-D
Right how the hell do I get rid of it now.............
** Update 2 **
I was rushing to get it uploaded, looks like I didn't read it properly.
Easy to change though.
Better pop my Gameboy conversion of Kaboom! on there.
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Posted By
Mad
on 2018-05-21
21:00:03
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
@Csabo I just got some old numbers right. MoS sold 39 units and Zador had sold 34 units (July 2017). So yeah, seems my numbers where wrong. Perhaps I remembered them together beeing 70 :)..
@Stinaris just downloaded the game, if you download it from plus4world with a simple click, then a white page appears here, which is the normal behaviour for external links on this site on my computer. Just always have to open these links in a new tab or new window.
I didn't have to pay 0.99€ for it. This message didn't appear for me on your page, it was just a simple download.
Have to say, that the quality of the game is awesome. Dunno how you stuffed the samples in 16k. However the gme is too hard for me, I didn't took the challenge to adapt to the difficulty level. It's not exactly a game I would enjoy for long (I am mostly no player anyways). However it's extremely great for 16k and would be a big one if it would have been released in the 80s. The startscreen graphics is great!
As Csabo said, you could sell 100s to 1000s if you do a (rather) great game on the C64. At least you can rely on a higher download count instantly.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2018-05-22
01:21:18
 | Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
Maybe the money thing put people off, but also you released video footage before the game came out and it might not have been their type of game from what they saw?
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Posted By
SVS
on 2018-05-22
06:18:05
 | Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
The point is that the C16/Plus4 scene is little. And the sceners have not so much free time for it.
Actually there is a big ratio between the efforts one put in a Plus4 project and the feedback for it from the scene (if any).
If we want new products or simply news, we all should put some energy in supporting/encouraging the few ones persons that do something, in addition to the products' supporting.
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Posted By
GeTE
on 2018-05-22
08:04:13
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
Well, for my C16 (I got it on christmas 1985 after the Aldi-Firesale in Germany) I bought several games in the old days. Sometimes that was a real adventure, like when I went in a snowstorm to the shop to buy Kingsoft's Winter Olympiade.
I loved this machine because I liked to write own programs, but when I searched for the next computer, the first thing was to see where software was easy to get. So all the time with my Amiga 500, I had only two original disks: Workbench and Extras.
Well, now I am in an age, where I usually have no time to play, exept from the days between christmas eve and new years day. Searching to find something that really makes me happy like I was a child, were the new games for my plus/4 (I switched from the C16 to plus/4 to get an centronics-printer attached to the user-port) originally boxed by Psytronik.
So, for me aspecially, I don't want to play any 264er game in an emulator or try to bring it on my own to this original machine, but buying a box, install my old hardware to the TV and start with it like in the old days but with a brand new game, makes me feel happy!
Perhaps I am not the only one, who would not load the PRG or D64 from your side but might buy it in a box on compact cassette or floppy disk.
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2018-05-22
13:44:50
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
SVS raises a very good point. His latest game, for example only got two comments as feedback. Blinddarm just put out a demo, no-one has even commented on it... I won't lament how many of my prods got little or no feedback, but I know the feeling well. One wonders if people didn't even bother to look at it, or did look at it, and dismissed it without a comment. *Sigh*, it is what it is.
GeTE, I can understand your point of view, but for me (and developers like me) that really sucks. I put out several games over the years, and you're basically saying you won't even look at them unless they are commercially sold. Well, I don't have much to say to that, other than that I guess that is your prerogative. Honestly, in that case, I'm not sure why you visit our site, since a new commercial game coming out for the Plus/4 is exceedingly rare.
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Posted By
Doug
on 2018-05-22
15:03:53
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
For me, it's about the nostalgia, and technical challenge. Any recognition, words of encouragement or even praise are nice, but absolutely not why I'm getting back into it. I've been watching what goes on on these pages for ages, and am totally impressed by the commitment and achievements of the posters on here. It doesn't matter if the community is 10 people or 1000, I'm in.
I owe a lot these little 8 bit machines, and don't want to see them really, finally, die off. So I'm doing my bit to keep the scene going - just very slowly
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Posted By
George
on 2018-05-22
15:23:38
 | Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
The plus/4 for me is a canvas realizing my visions on it. My canvas. I rarely play games on it.
It's nice see others realizing their visions on a plus/4 too and even when we don't comment everything its always nice to see constantly, new stuff comming out. For sure every-single person here has respect for the efford, time and love put in every game/demo.
Since the most of us are raised in the 80's and young people don't have the nostalgia and memories of an 264 computer, the interest will stay at a low level..like oldtimer in the car scene.
Let me add another thing: I get very little response to my stuff. But when I see every single picture/conversion after some time (a year or so), they give me an unbelievable satisfaction and joy. Like seeing them for the first time.
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Posted By
Patrick
on 2018-05-22
17:15:41
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
The reason I didn't download anything for a long time is that I ran out of 256 MB memory cards!!
Good news is: today I received a new one!!
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Posted By
GeTE
on 2018-05-23
08:07:43
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
@Csabo
"Honestly, in that case, I'm not sure why you visit our site, since a new commercial game coming out for the Plus/4 is exceedingly rare."
Is it? It was! Around 1990 the commercial realeases stopped for about 20 years. Since five years now every year there was a new game and - as I wrote - one game in a year is enough for me who only has time to reactivate the old hardware around christmas (I am a bit after it, this christmas Slipstream waits for me, next year Pets Rescue will be there).
I love old hardware, but I will restrict myself to not buy voluminous new hardware (I am happy that I gave a broken C64 with no charge to a friend in the 1990. Otherwise I couldn't resist now to buy one of the new cases and a reloaded board to get it work again).
Ok, I really don't want to play games or demos in an emulator. That feels always like fake (games) or youtube (demos). But getting it an floppy disc isn't that easy without buying new hardware ... thinking about that leads me to raise a new topic about the 1551 and PC-connection-options.
PS: Why I am here? It is like reading motorcycle magazines. It's fun to read about what's going on even if buying stuff is something you don't do that often. 
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Posted By
MIK
on 2018-05-23
10:41:02
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
For those that might remember, when I started C16/Plus4 ClassiX, (all made on Amiga) I did it because I wanted to give something back for all the enjoyment I had from the system. At the same time I could support the guys working on emulators which were starting to roll out. Also, there was no eye candy web site for C16/Plus4 like Lemon64 so having a face for the machines could only be a good thing!
Behind it all was a mountain of people doing stuff, offering stuff and supporting in all sorts of ways, all of which was done for free and still is free to this very day by those that took over the reins! While my watch was short lived, that small site became the MONSTER you see today thanks to Csabo & Luca!
Every little does helps, it really does because without it this site would not be here today. Everyone who has ever done something no matter how small deserves a pat on the back, you know who you all are!
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Posted By
GeTE
on 2018-05-24
05:21:28
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
@MIK
I totally agree with you. We shouldn't all do the same, but we must have an eye for the small and necessary parts no other one might solve.
My first self earned money I got for a little program that was published by a german magazine. The intension was to switch off peripherie by software without the need to plug and unplug them (http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/The_Final_Deleter).
I was a kind of hooked on the Turbo-Pus-Modul just because that was the only enhancemend module for the 264er (on the C64-Side there was much more like Magic Formel or Final Cartridge III). So, when the first 264-emulators came up, I wanted to use them as my original machine. But how could I gt that working? Well I am no hardware-man, but around the year 2000 there was one of the last Amiga-dealers still alive (Fisher Hard- und Software).
Entering the office was a strange kind of retro-trip. Amazing! But they had the hardware and I left my Turbo-Plus-Cartridge there (beeing afraight it might brake). The next day I could get it back and they imaged the EPROM for me on a 3,5"-disk. The first thing I did when at home, was to email this file to all emulator-developers. With the next releases I - and everyone else - could use this cartridge when emulating a 264-system.
That was such a kind of thing, that really was not difficult, but I had the feeling, I must have to do it because no other one will. So much of you felt the same and in my opinion that is the spirit that made this hugh side happen.
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Posted By
Stinaris
on 2018-05-24
17:09:58
| Re: How many people are there genuinely interesting in C16 retro stuff?
Well that turned into an interesting post.
@GeTE it's interesting what you say. I can totally see your perspective but I think you're missing out on some great stuff.
@MAD Thanks for downloading it. Csabo gave me similar feedback, which was very much appreciated. I have started addressing the changes but I'm right in the middle of course work at the moment so it's a bit slow and the sun's been out a lot and I've got veg to grow
@MIK I gave out too much too soon! A few more teasers next time. I did that as it's much harder to drop something when people are expecting it. Plus I wanted to give some idea of how quickly development can be using modern IDE's, CBMPrgStudio in this case.
Well it's certainly given me my mojo back for developing some more games for the C16 (and finishing the evil Gridiron).
I really need to stick to the C16 as I don't have time for anything much larger and my time will be even shorter soon.
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