Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2016-05-31
21:38:10
|  What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
Hi!
I'm searching in resources of Commodore 8-bits for maximum resolution no matter if is usable.
We collected these devices:
VIC-I (VIC20): 284×312 PAL, 260×261 NTSC in 16 colors
VIC-II (C64): 403×288 PAL, NTSC unknown in 16 colors
VIC-IIe (C128): 403×620 PAL, 403×520 NTSC in 16 colors
VDC (C128): 1024×800 in 16 colors
and where is TED of course with 121 colors?
Thank you for each help!
Miro
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2016-06-01
00:10:54
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
http://plus4world.powweb.com/forum/11417#11438
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/40x36c
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/HNY2013
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2016-06-01
02:20:30
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
The VIC-I (VIC20) and VIC-IIe (C128) data looks completely bogus to me.
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Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2016-06-01
09:08:38
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
VIC-I I can't to confirm.
But VIC-IIe resolution is looking correct, when we look at maximal using area 320x400 it looks similar to VC-II but it has 320x200 useable area...
Miro
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2016-06-01
09:32:20
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
I asked ppl at Lemon about this - http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47356
So, Miro, do you have any proof to your data?
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Posted By
MMS
on 2016-06-01
09:32:31
 | Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
yeah, the C128 using the same VIC-II with the same frequency (partially that's why the C128 so slow, shared memory) --> resolution should be the same
Actually, the Plus4Emu package contains one of the most advanced GFX converter utility and has very special high resolutions including Interlaced HIRES bitmap, and there are some hints about the maximum resolution it can reach.
Despite the visible vibration, I am not aware of any higher resolution on Plus/4, or at least that is documented or mentioned.
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Posted By
Litwr
on 2016-06-01
09:55:22
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Five_Magics
shows 336x200.
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Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2016-06-01
12:46:27
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
Yes, C128 is slow when uses VIC-IIe... VIC can't handle 2MHz of 8502. But when is turned off and using much better VDC chip 2MHz is not problem.
Difference between VIC-II and VIC-IIe is that VIC-IIe features Real Interlace, so is possible to display 320×400 HiRes or 160×400 MultiColor also features handling extra keyboard keys and 2MHz switch.
I was reading forum topic abot TED maxres - for now only fast, I found there resolution 480×584 pixels by hacks. Nice, using hacks is needed - in case of VDC it allows 8×1 color cells in up to 480H, and 8×2 colors cells up to 640H (color modes edge), known working resolution is 800×600, but attempt to use 1024H text mode was working (not finally).
Miro
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2016-06-02
01:58:35
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
I think Mirko meant the "visible pixel resolution", i.e. #cycles per line × #pixels per cycle × #rasterlines, excluding the HBLANK area. For the 264 family this is ~384 (out of 456) × 288 (out of 312) for PAL. The C64 (with VIC6569) has it at 403 (out of 504) × 284 (out of 312) according to the VIC Article. It's not exact science though, because it boils down to how each TV handles the blanking signals.
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2016-06-02
02:50:46
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
I'm not nitpicking, but that 384px horizontal resolution for TED machines seems a bit strange. AFAIK, raster lines are 64us long and 12us is the front porch-sync signal-back porch as defined by the standard. Calculating with 17734475Hz crystal frequency, if there were really 384 visible pixels then the non-visible part had slightly more than 10us only, which I guess could be less than ideal signal for every kind of equipment. 368px would be easier to believe. However, I didn't program any emulators nor did I make any measurements on the real live signals, therefore I'm not entitled to question the accuracy of this statement. I just find it a bit strange.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2016-06-02
05:14:42
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
What about the games, eg Godzilla from Attila Kosir, that used the upper and bottom border too for picture?
Mirko is interested in max resolution (even not usable), but Godzilla and Invincible (full screen used without borders) proved border is usable somehow. (would be great to understand, how..)
The full height screen is the 288 lines? Thanks.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2016-06-02
17:54:05
| Re: What is maximum resolution of TED no matter if possible to use?
gerliczer: well... you are right but this is just the TV you are talking about. I have put there a ~ to indicate the approximation but it looks a bit generous I agree  The horizontal blanking interval under PAL is about ~12 usec, which would make our pixels 456 × 52 / 64 = 370 wide. TV cards indeed typically show 3-3 of them each side which is exactly the 368 pixels you have indicated. Not sure anymore how but I did manage to see 4-4 character width columns back in the day (~2003) on my old AKAI analogue TV set when I checked it for the emulator (it did have those adjust controls though and it was not possible to see all of it at once). I assumed it was because the TED itself spat out a shorter hblank. I go ahead and check whether there are actual oscilloscope measurements somewhere...
EDIT: could not find them but the - admittedly inaccurate - official TED doc indicates a 18 half-character wide horizontal blanking interval which in fact makes the screen 384 pixels wide. The crucial part are the SYNC pulses, so if these are OK, the blanking does not matter as much - I guess. But of course there are people out there with a lot better understanding of analogue TV broadcasting than me.
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