Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2014-10-15
01:44:04
|  Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
Hi!
I'm really 128'er but very interest into TED Series.
I need to know simple thing about which it looks like simple stupid Q:
Where is located Basic program in RAM? (C64 it has C128 c01 / )
Basic 3.5 has also GRAPHIC command but don't know if is applied also graphic allocation.
In case or C128 is standard address c01, after graphic allocation
So, where is Basic program in TED Series after graphic allocation? Or there's no allocation like C64?
Q is for every type of TED Series computer (16/116/232/264/364/+4), if are different please warn me.
Also simple Q: Where is possible to get Plussy and C16 memory map?
Thank you for every help.
Miro
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2014-10-15
02:58:00
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
Default BASIC start address in character mode is $1001 on all 264 machines. Turning on graphic mode on 16k machines will leave it at the same address. Turning on graphic mode on machines with more than 16k RAM will reallocate the BASIC memory to $4001. The Ultimate Map by SVS has answers to a lot of similar questions.
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Posted By
Imperious
on 2014-10-15
03:51:44
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
Refer to the TED system hardware manual, has a lot of info including a Memory map.
http://www.pagetable.com/?p=541
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Posted By
MIK
on 2014-10-15
04:53:24
 | Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
You could of found out in part your self like most of us did back in the day... 
Enter this from Basic with a RETURN,
10 PRINT"Miro"
Now type Monitor or M(SHIFT)O
Or you can hold the RUN/STOP Key down and press the RESET button to do the same thing.
type,
M0000
replace this symbol ">" at 0058 with M so it looks like M0058 and press return.
Keep looking at the screen until you see your name on the right hand side, (M1001 aka $1001)... Use the Commodore Key to slow the scrolling down. Run/Stop to break. M to continue.
Type X to return back to 3.5 Basic at any time and type SYS62116. 
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2014-10-15
12:36:28
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
@Lando: he has to have a machine (or an emulator) in order to do the Monitor trick.
I believe it was disclosed in a previous post that he owns a 128, and is trying to code a program that runs on TED as well. I'm not sure how he can test TED code without a TED machine, but to each their own.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2014-10-15
21:37:58
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
I believe you have misread the original 1st post James.
MIRKOSOFT was asking directly about the 264 series and why gerliczer & Imperious replied with 264 related posts also...
Never mind...
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Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2014-10-16
09:19:37
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
OK, thank you boys. Before investigating PDF files I have few Qs, if I can...
When I compare C64 vs Plussy:
38911 B + 4K unused vs 60671 B (in C16 unbelievable 12277) free for Basic
How is done in Plussy bankswitching? What a MMU chip it has?
Really C128 has free for Basic 122 365 B from its 128K and 60671 B in Plussy is near 64K... unbelievable, also the same 12277 from 16K... how many banks uses Plussy/16 ? C128 has 16 banks.
Last Q is simple: Modifying FN keys in C128 is possible easy to write data to address - and it allows to use 10 FN keys (F1-F8 + Help & Shift+RUN/Stop) - of course possible also by command from Basic...
TED Series has the same command, but it has 7 FN keys + Help - where are located data in TED RAM for FN keys - it can allow 9 FN keys - F1-F7 + Help & Shift+Run/Stop.
I want to do it - I have not yet real Plussy, but I'm looking for one - have no idea of price, so also Amibay etc. is for me high risk...
Thank you everybody for all replies.
Miro
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Posted By
JamesC
on 2014-10-16
09:35:22
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
Your questions are answered in SVS's Ultimate Memory Map, linked earlier in this thread.
Bankswitching is done automatically within BASIC, just as the 128. If you are programming in ML, TED has 16 banks (see the Ultimate Memory Map, $FDD0-FDDF).
TED's function keys F1 - F8 are all definable from BASIC as well as ML. F8 (Help) is definable identically to F1-F7, it is not a "dedicated" key requiring special tricks to change. (iirc the 128 cannot redefine Help or Run/Stop from BASIC.)
I suggest that you review the documents provided earlier, and use an emulator such as YAPE (available at http://yape.homeserver.hu/download.htm) until you can obtain a real TED machine.
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Posted By
gerliczer
on 2014-10-16
13:31:22
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
In a standard (unmodified) 264 series machine there are two types of memory paging.
One type is the ROM paging that JamesC already mentioned. The machine is capable to map two built-in and two external 16k ROM banks to the $8000-$BFFF memory address space, and another two built-in and two external 16k ROM banks to the $C000-$FFFF memory area (this area also covers the "chipset" I/O address space, so there is a hole in it at $FD00-$FF3F). This works via the registers mentioned earlier.
The other paging type is the ROM-RAM paging, which switches between ROM and RAM access in the $8000-$FFFF memory space (of course excluding the I/O area). This works via TED registers $FF3E (page in ROM) and $FF3F (page in RAM). The act of writing into the register triggers the switching, therefore the written value is indifferent.
There are unofficial but (maybe) plus/4 scene-standard memory expansion solutions, but unfortunately I don't really know them. These expansions are not widely spread, so maybe it is fine to ignore them. Oh, and there are other also unofficial expansions that extend the usable external ROM banks, too.
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Posted By
MIRKOSOFT
on 2014-10-16
15:53:54
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
OK, I'll investigate Ultimate map and few PDFs tomorrow.
I'm using YAPE and also VICE.
FN keys: of course C128 has no upgraded KEY command - since Basic 3.5 is not upgraded.
Basic 3.5 works with HELP as F8, C128 has else Help and Shift+Stop.
Basic 7.0 command KEY is same as 3.5 command.
Upgrade of KEY command is only in Basic 10.0 - KEY 1-16 (last two keys are Help and Shift+Stop).
So, Q is simple: How to modify Shift+Stop on Plussy? It must to have solution, maybe I'll find all answers in documents...
Thank you for all answers.
Miro
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Posted By
MMS
on 2014-10-17
13:29:07
 | Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
i think you are looking for a POKE command to prevent/stoppin your rimming Baic prg. I know it does exist, just dunno the address and value@ i think i saw something is SVS map related to that. Eg. I also work on a bigger basic prg, but i will not block this function, letting the 'source code' accessible to anyone :-
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Posted By
MIK
on 2014-10-18
00:27:01
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
That very Poke was printed in one of the UK Commodore magazines back in the day. I long forget. One of the Commodore User mags maybe as they were about the only mag supporting our system with code stuff. There is also one to disable the reset button from Basic.
and I might be making this up... My bad memory sort of recalls there might be one where you can in fact hide the listing of a Basic program if the program is stopped and LIST is use to look at it...
Obviously having the Run/Stop disabled in a text adventure where typing is the order of the day prevents you from touching it by accident breaking the game.
The only problem is if you want to hide your code, what ever you do the program needs to run these disable commands so they are active before a program is loaded. It's almost impossible to do as you can interrupt the loading any way. Even such games as ACE+4 that restarts the game at the title screen if the reset button is pressed was hacked.
Having a loading screen, the code could be run from there and then the main program loaded afterwards. The annoying part to all of this though is that, if you run some machine code the Run/Stop key is automatically disabled. 
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Posted By
SVS
on 2014-10-18
07:46:24
 | Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
POKE DEC("326"),136 disables STOP key.
POKE DEC("326"),66 re-enables it.
Ciao
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Posted By
MMS
on 2014-10-18
19:03:43
| Re: Basic program address with or without Graphic allocation
sorry for the lot of typos, I am still not perfect with the touchscreen keyboard on phone
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