| Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-02-19
13:59:51
|  Cookies
A few days ago indi brought this to my attention:
http://www.silktide.com/cookielaw
First, in my personal not-so-humble-opinion, this whole thing is nonsense. People in power legislated something without understanding technology. Now that's out of the way, what should we do about it?
Plus/4 World doesn't use "tracking" cookies of any kind. I looked through the code, there are 3 places where cookies are set: login, options, and the language selector on the home page. Each of those 3 require explicit user action, and are necessary for the site to work. You choose to set an option, you choose to change the language, you choose to log in. As a "test", I added a (stupid sounding) note about this to the login page. Is that... enough? Can someone with more knowledge, more time or better understanding of the law comment on this?
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-02-22
04:08:30
 | Re: Cookies
Cookielaw?? News to me. I'm sure 92% of websites are still not asking for permission as I don't recall a single site asking for it from all the google searches to snooping about online at all types of things from news to shopping. I guess you may get on some sites a little box where you sign-in that has the option so it remembers you which would be that I guess but no message of actually telling me it's anything to do with cookies.
It's more about convenience than doing any damage to it's users...
I'm not saying ignore indi, but have a word to see what he thinks. It really is a joke in my eyes, I mean should all websites ask permission before you even view it's content from text to pictures because that too is being cached for convenience reasons... mad!
I can only share your views, but if Mike feels the need something should be done just in case then I'm sorry if this is extra work, come back the days when basic html was all you needed to make a web site! 
One last thought... it should be the web browsers that should detect if cookies are being used to then ask with the option to ignore all. Not the other way around of the site having to ask... Pathetic.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2012-02-22
11:00:52
 | Re: Cookies
Lando, you are fully right.
How many browsers to be changed? 8 maybe (IE, Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Safari, and few more for Linux).
So, instead of that MILLIONS of Homepages to be changed. WISE!!!! 
OFF
I am more and more convienced, that those guys who create the laws in EU are just crazy. One example: after 6 hours you should destroy (!) the locally made an not used up bread, etc, make sure, that no people can reach them. After 6 hours the big supermarkets are NOR allowed to even offer them to starving childs or homeless people, because the 8 hours old bread is too dangerous for them. Come on!
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-02-27
12:00:22
| Re: Cookies
Common sense is the internet in my eye's. I respect laws should be in place for all the bad things, illegal things and wrong doings but for a society that didn't even know what a computer was until Facebook showed up and then tell us how it should be run can go JUMP! 
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2012-02-27
12:27:29
 | Re: Cookies
As long as programmed death of products are legal just to maintain the high sales numbers (from nylon stockings to light bulbs and ipods) by wasting energy, resources and money of the society, I do not consider democracy a good solution on Earth.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2012-02-27
16:11:21
| Re: Cookies
Yeah... in my view "programmed product death" is esentially required to maintain economic growth and thus avoid poverty (on the short run), but of course we are wasting Earth's resources big time. In the end there appears to be two options for the future: either poverty or the annihilation of our planet 
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-02-27
18:53:59
| Re: Cookies
I'm not saying those are not worthwhile things to discuss, but back to the cookies... Don't any of you guys have your own sites, hosted in the EU? Aren't you worried about complying with this stuff?
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Posted By
Lavina
on 2012-02-28
07:56:55
| Re: Cookies
Yes I have a hosted site in the EU among the other 100 zillion sites, no I'm not worried because there are a 100 zillion sites to get processed.
Generally speaking in the Eastern Block it was a declared goal to produce everything to last for 25 years. That's why if you look at a 30 years old fridge made in Hungary or In the DDR you'll find that the original (factory installed) small light bulb is probably still working in it.
In the early 80's there was a trade fair where western and East-German engineers met. The latter introduced their new invention (long lasting light bulb with 25 years of warranty) to the public. The western ones said: you'll loose your jobs and get out of businness. The eastern ones said no, we will keep our businness while saving resources at the same time. The wall fell several years after. The light bulb company was sold the the West and closed down. Now I'm buying Osram, Tungsram and Philips light bulbs every 2 years for my Bosch-Lehel fridge. :-/ F*ck that. I don't want my children to grow up in this world. And if I'm saying this, with a comfortable and relatively wealthy living standard, what should the millions in poverty say in Africa, especially Ghana, where 90 % of the electronic equipment trash lands in untreated landfills that are so vast that you can only see their borders with satellites?
Viessmann is one of the best producers for gas boilers, furnaces. When a small rubber sealing ring broke, you could earlier buy it for 5 euros and get it replaced cheaply. Now their latest models have two modules, called upper module and bottom module. The small rubber ring is located in the bottom module. When it fails, you have to buy the whole module for 235 euros. The old module goes to the junk. They don't even collect it back.
I could write some 40 more such examples just from everyday life. Excuse me Mr. Europe, if I don't care about the cookie.
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Posted By
MIK
on 2012-02-28
06:48:22
| Re: Cookies
How do people update old sites that can still be viewed using Wayback Machine?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2012-02-28
09:47:20
| Re: Cookies
Wayback machine only stores the text, not images or code from the site. So some stuff can be read, but the old sites won't "work". If some JavaScript executes on an old page, that would set the cookie in wayback machine's domain - so anyway, the point is, the original site owner's don't have to worry about it.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2012-02-28
15:30:37
 | Re: Cookies
Obviously, most of you haven't even researched what the directive (it's not a law - most EU countries haven't even started implementing it) is about.
Anyway, I'm probably the only one partially in favor of the directive It's meant to protect your privacy and not to prosecute website owners. And yes, I think some companies go too far and if ppl knew what data is collected not everybody would allow the companies to do so. (No need to discuss if those ppl should be allowed to use the internet )
Also, the wording of the directive is not too clear about technical implementations. Silktide's interpretation is just theirs (obviously, serving their own business model ).
Csabo,
though not always, wayback machine does store images and sometimes even code -which helped me tons of times
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php
Lavina,
generally speaking, most stuff produced in the GDR was so crappy that it wouldn't even work properly when it was new. Kidding But 5 year plans and lack of resources didn't always lead to quality. I do agree though, that in Eastern European countries more things were fixed.
Not sure if saving resources was the main inspiration, though. Sometimes "no other choice" seems to fit. And considering the massive environmental pollution problems created in those countries as well (not saying that this didn't happen in the West), I'm not sure if it made a big difference in the bigger scheme.
The stories about long lasting light bulbs are partially urban legends spiced with lots of conspiracy theory - sometimes there's a little truth in those, too There's a very interesting pseudo-documentary called "Binningers Birne" (literally "Binninger's pear" meaning "Binninger's light bulb"). It's about a guy researching the death of Dieter Binninger. Do some research, I liked it a lot when I first saw it.
And yeah, I like things that can be fixed. And when parts are more expensive than buying the entire product, there's something wrong Well, aren't we glad we have eBay? World's biggest recycling company 
The light bulb in my fridge (made in Italy, mille grazie, Luca ) still works after 10 years. Not sure if it'll beat the one in that San Franciscian fire department
There are many companies that believe in long lasting quality products and market that! Btw, Singer sewing machines had that very same "problem". So they made the newer ones better and ppl bought them even if their old machines were still working. So quality creates demand anway
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