| Posted By
MMS
on 2009-11-14
18:23:34
 |  The Hobbit_disc version
Just wandering around johncl page, I noticed a Hobbit review.
Till today I was not aware, that there is a disc version of the Hobbit. Andras converted the tape version, and those were always the pictures I ever seen in any review !
http://retro.lonningdal.net/home.php?page=Reviews&title=The%20Hobbit
Looking at the pictures I was shocked, how nice grafix it had, especially as it is a rather old game and the pics made in HIRES (as I see).
You should know, why it shocked me. Since one year I started to collect pictures to swap somehow the Hobbit original ones with converted/redrawn pics, and to load them from disc. It would be a nice 2K10 update for the game. Mainly Howe pictures I used.
The task would be even much easier now, but just for C64... Andras told me once, that he converted the Hobbit in one afternoon. Probably I will have a look on the C64 version, although I am not a big programmer any more.
Here I put few converted samples before Multibotticelli retouch (I agree if some people may prefer the original hand-drawn HIRES versions, they also have their nice feelings):
http://img2.tar.hu/mmszoli/img/39190993.gif#3
http://kep.tar.hu/mmszoli/50659120?o=0#2
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Posted By
Luca
on 2009-11-16
07:09:09
 | Re: The Hobbit_disc version
This is the cassette original: The Hobbit.
That's the stuff I like! Go on! 
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-11-16
11:18:41
| Re: The Hobbit_disc version
Hi Luca,
I know this Tape version very well, that was one of the first games I received from Pigmy when we were in contact.
My concern is that you just cannot integrate so many pictures into the memory in bitmap.
MAYBE if we do a raster trick and use different charset and on the top and bottom area, and you set for each picture a separated charset with own colormap, then you may press 14 pictures into 30KB, and still those pictures are 20x8 character size (160*96), so the pictures would become even smaller, despite they would be more colorful (not to mention the extra limit of multicolor characters).
I think in TAP version you cannot do what I want. That's why I was happy to see a disc version.
If it would be a plus/4 version already, the task could be completed by me in a few months. (could be already done). But it would be easier for me to convert the C64 disc version, than to rewrite the plus/4 drawing routines to a loading routines.
Pls correct me if I am wrong.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-11-16
11:29:59
 | Re: The Hobbit_disc version
I think it's better to continue here and not in the other thread...
I wasn't thinking about including all the pictures into a one file 64kb version. Basically, I meant... Use the code (parser etc) from the tape version and load pictures from disc.
Nevertheless, the original disk version hi-res graphics seem to be somewhat suited for compression. I don't mean transfering them to charsets (this will cause problems because unlike in bitmap mode you don't have 2 colors for each 8x8 pixels) but compressing them by exomizer or smth similar and decrunch on the fly when the pic is needed. I haven't looked at the code and don't know how much RAM is left for storing compressed pics. Maybe it's impossible anyway... Though, someone could do a 256kb version 
Edit:
Well, are those 51 graphics all that can be seen in the game? They are not "full size" just 256x128 pixels and some should be very "compressable". Though, some others have many details. I guess it's way too much data for a single 64kb file but 256kb should be possible.
I do like the idea about adding "new" (=different) graphics, though.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-11-16
16:11:46
| Re: The Hobbit_disc version
Well, not a bad idea at all.
First about original HIRES pics of C64 version: they seems very compressable, even if I would choosea a very basic compression method (unfortunately the GIF I well know does not really fit to plus/4 ) Some of the pics would fit to 1.5K (io 4.5K). Most of the pics would fit into 2KB, and ~third of them would need at least 3K. (just by checking the repetition and bigger surfaces). 2.5KB*51=127KB. Does not fit to 64K. Hard to store on original media (tape, disc). And would not be compatible with original plus/4.
About multicolors. Few trials made with IstvanV's converter. I could see 10-30% compression (if fully depends on picture content). A 256x128 pic with the colormap should take 4KB+512b, and does not have the limitation of charset. But for the pics I choose at least 3.5KB (but most probably 4KB) needed, even after compression (converted pics (arts, photoes) typically not so well compressable).
4K * 51 = 200K
2 discsides, and would be compatible with "real" plus/4. But for such a small saving (maybe 25-40KB) I prefer no compression, if fits to 2 discsides.
I just checked the uncompressed Pigmy version: the memory is rather full (the first room is at BEB0), and after each text description there ar hundreds of bytes explaining the room (at least it looks graphical content due to it's structure). So -for me- it looks it would need a complete restructure of memory allocation, and not too much memory for extra content.
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