| Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-16
09:59:50
 |  Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
I recently unboxed my trusty SEIKOSHA SP-180 VC and started to play around with some routines. This printer was quite popular here in Germany. At some time it was sold bundled with the plus/4 by a computer discounter (Vobis). So a couple of these machines should be out there. Mine worked fine after not being touched for around 10 years. Yeah, sounds like a mixture between mosquitos running mad and machine guns in fast forward when it starts printing but that's part of the fun :D
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-16
15:07:53
 | Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
Well, I sold my stuff several years ago. My mother company sold the old stuff when they switched over to PC, I bought a complete C64 config with 1541/II, MPS803, and as I remember the C64 had a lot of extras, like Reset button (wow!) and some speeddos EPROM was built in. All together it was ~50 Euro, or soemthing... But certainly I stopped doing graphics on plus/4, and played a lot on GPC, Shadow of Beast, DOC, and all the classics we just wished on Plussy at that time.
At that time I played and printed a lot with GEOS (local magazine for friends, classmates), and was surprised, why GEOS is not available on Plus/4. In fact with that simple floppy method it was slow like hell. 64KB and slow floppy killed it, especially the floppy swapping/turning
I stopped using MPS803 the first time I saw a 24pin matrix printer's result. It was shockig how bad MPS803 was compared to that...
When I switch over to PC, I purchased a STAR LC24C. It was a A3 beast, ~10kgs, color capable, fast monster. With high quality printing it was so noisy, that my head wanted to blow up after 20 minutes... (calling it "high quality" is some kind of funny compared to current printing results we have for much less money)
Original price was huge, but I got it for ~20 Euro (Certainly from my mother's company, who just sold their dot-matrix when they bought lasers  )
http://www.stcarchiv.de/stm90/01_starlc24.php
At that time I still had my C16, but as it had no user port (Star had Centronics), I could not connect that monster to my little fellow, although there were some Centronics adaptors available for Plus/4 would make this possible.
It was my last attempt to print anything on C16 or Commodore. I know that some lasers could be hooker up with C64+GEOS, but the memory limitation makes it really useless attempt...
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-17
08:45:16
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
Hi MMS,
of course, in the very early days besides printing out listings I used my printer to be productive (homework assignments, letters etc). But I wasn't blind I could easily see that this was not up to anything that could be done with 24pin printers or ink jet ones. So I never tried to keep up with something that was way too far ahead. I used my printer because sometimes it's nice to have something in your hand. Not just "virtual" bits and bytes.
Here in Germany, there had been a strong followership of the plus/4 program "page setter". (Similar to the "page fox"/Geos followership.) On the one hand I understand their opinion "Yes, it's possible to do 'DTP' with such limited equipment!". On the other hand, I had seen Ventura Publisher and the like running on (even back then obsolete or entry level PCs) and yield much better results and incorporate a much better workflow.
On a side note, the page setter followership caused quite some trouble in the plus/4 community because they disliked the real scene-ish things like demos. They considered themselves to be "serious" computer users. Whereas, in their opinion, the demo-coders were just wasting their time with useless stuff.
I always liked the plus/4 and it's still my favorite system of all times and everytime I see something new achieved my heart jumps in joy However, the plus/4 is just not made for DTP.
Nevertheless, I think that the dot matrix printers have their own aesthetics (Much like the overused pixelated graphics in contemporary graphic design.) And not just because it's "retro" (overused, too  ).
Furthermore, it's still nice to be able to print out something on the real machine. And improving the printing quality - even if a hardcopy routine is totally useless nowadays - can be a fun challenge. That's what I've been toying around a bit. Don't know, yet, if this will ever make it's way to a useable program (and even then it will work only on the Seikosha SP-180VC).
I have a (smaller than your DIN A3 monster ) STAR LC20 (came with a used PC I bought) but I never used it on my plus/4 because I don't have a userport-centronics cable. Plus, I was always happy with my Seikosha (Yeah, first love kinda thing )
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Posted By
RobertB
on 2009-01-18
02:47:34
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
MMS wrote:
> I know that some lasers could be hooker up with C64+GEOS, but the memory limitation makes it really useless attempt...
Memory limitation? The C64/128 with GEOS/Wheels and a Postscript printer do quite well in printing Geowrite / Geopaint / Geopublish multi-page documents with true letter-quality printing. Our club newsletter was published with such a set-up.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-18
13:08:52
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
Hi,
yes, it is true, it is printing properly. But to have a proper printing quality (eg. 150 dpi is the minimum in lasers, as I know, maybe 300dpi), you MUST send this amount of data to the printer (I am talking especially the insterted graphics).
Creating that huge data content need processing power. C64's 1Mhz PUis not the best. As I heard it took almost 20-30 mintes to have in 300dpi a edited page from the laser. Maybe it is not true, I cannot find now any reference on the internet to taht long time
Postscript is an other discussion point..
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-18
14:25:16
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
I just read, that Geowrite could pass the outpur as postscript file, then you just needed an other computer, and the RISC CPU of the laser did the rest (BTW, nowadays there a are a lot of lasers do not have own CPU, but work done by the PC itself : this confused me a little)
So my previous post is nonsense (as old lasers all have own CPU, and postscript does not need huge file to be created).
I just recently found an article showing the troubles related to C64 postscript files, but none of them is really linked to speed of file creation, just how complex it is to manage (editing, transferring, etc).
http://web.mit.edu/randy/www/antigrav/bbt.html
Is there anyone made a try with Plus/4 + Laserprinter? It should also work, as Geos is available. The externally written program are at least 90% compatible with the plus/4 version, as mentioned previously.
Plussy has a User interface, having proper tool for RS232 connection. (I am not sure, if it is possible with C16 or not)
http://www.portcommodore.com/interfaces.php
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Posted By
RobertB
on 2009-01-18
22:16:38
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
MMS wrote:
> I just read, that Geowrite could pass the outpur as postscript file, then you just needed an other computer, and the RISC CPU
> of the laser did the rest...
That is correct. The Postscript printer does all the heavy lifting. For example, in my Lexmark Postscript 2 printer with 64 meg of RAM, it takes a few minutes of thinking on the part of the printer before it starts spitting out the document.
Just a few minutes,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-19
13:04:53
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
In fact the memory limitation I mean is really related that the pages should restored on the disc,not in the memory. I do remember my GeoWrite speed, when I scrolled between pages.
Yeah, in fact in exchange to the speed of that the quality of document was great. Please do not forget, that I used single 1541/II +C64 setup, without any memory expansion or second drive. (which made necessary the floppy swapping).
BTW, I may try out via Plus4EMU, how GEOS works, I just recently found some discs, I suppose some of my mags are on them. I may rent a 1541 from someone here in our company to check the content, and how far it is compatible with the Plus/4 GEOS. Although I have no printer port any more (needed fo x1541...)
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Posted By
RobertB
on 2009-01-19
15:21:45
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
MMS wrote:
> Is there anyone made a try with Plus/4 + Laserprinter? It should also work, as Geos is available. The externally written program
> are at least 90% compatible with the plus/4 version, as mentioned previously.
In order to use the C64/128 directly with a Postscript printer, you need an application, like GeoLaser for Geowrite/Geopaint, GeoPubLaser for Geopublish, or Wheels Postprint. To use a Plus/4 with a Postscript printer, you'd need a similar application, i.e.,
convert GeoLaser to the Plus/4.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Catch the Fatman and Circuit Girl at
http://vimeo.com/jeri
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-20
13:26:44
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
Thank for the valuable feedbacks !
BTW, could you try? I mean someone mentioned, that the programs wrote to Geos2.0, are mostly compatible with GEOS3.5, the issue may pop up relates to the colors used in the plus/4 version.
Do you have a chance just to check, if GeoLaser runs under GEOS3.5? I mean it should give an error message, if it is incompatible, I suppose
Best Regards: MMS
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-20
14:59:55
| Re: Is anyone still printing anything on the original hardware (e.g. MPS 801, SP 180 VC)?
In this thread
http://plus4world.powweb.com/forum/11662
Siz says that he connected the plus/4 via a userport/centronics cable to an HP laserjet.
This is not GEOS related but at least he did it
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