| Posted By
register
on 2008-12-28
14:15:27
|  looking for a Plus 4 console
Hi everybody, I am looking for a plus 4 console. Lately it is very difficult to find something good on ebay, so I'm wondering if someone has a good piece of hw for sale somewhere...
Thanks and best wishes to everyone!
Luca
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-12-28
18:05:31
 | Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Hi,
I saw on vatera.hu few PLUS/4 for <10Euro, certainly without PSU.
Certainly need some Hungarian knowledge to finalize it, but I may help you to align the basic details. Certainly I can bid for you.
This finishes tomorrow, now at ~8Euro:
http://www.vatera.hu/commodore_plus_4_114781506.html
For this one the guy wants 20Euro, but currently at 4Euro, looks as fully working one:
http://www.vatera.hu/commodore_plus_4_114194131.html
In case you want shipping, you may count ~10-15Euro by DHL, if not goes in the original huge box. With normal post (no insuarence) much less.
BTW, if you actively use the keyboard (programming), an upgraded 64K C16 is much better for that purpose, as it has a very robust keyboard. I suppose you won't miss the included 4 "applications"  I know it harder, but lasts longer...
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-12-29
05:41:56
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Further two found:
8Euro fix wo PSU:
http://www.vatera.hu/commodore_4_szamitogep_111421325.html
For 15Euro a C64 + a plus/4, missing keys (bad sign )
http://www.vatera.hu/1db_commodore_c64c_1db_commodore_4_116622362.html
BTW in Hungary you can buy some real goodies cheaper, like this 1571 Floppy drive, mint condition for 32Euro:
http://www.vatera.hu/commodore_vc1571_floppy_drive_114897887.html
In few cases seems to be cheaper, than Germany.
http://shop.ebay.de/items/_W0QQ_nkwZcommodoreQ20plusQ2f4QQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR40QQ_mdoZ
And seems more pieces available here
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-12-29
05:43:41
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
The huge quantities in Hungary in not a big surprise, knowing, that almost all schools were equipped with these computers, as it was the "de facto" learning computer of the late 80s.
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Posted By
register
on 2008-12-29
07:18:17
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
MMS thanks for your detailed information. If you don't mind i would like your help to bid on one of the hungarian offers. These two days I am pretty busy but if you like we can meet at the beginning of the new year in some e-way ( messenger, or other kind of interactive chat ) so that you may give me online instructions during my bidding process. I agree with you that a c16 keyboard is far better then the plus4 one but how to expand it to 64K??
Thanks and best wishes for the new year.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-12-29
09:47:44
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Hi,
Certainly I will help, no prob! I will give my messanger link, although by default I do not log in, as all my relatives start to "attack" me at once as they see I am online But I will take some risks. (still I keep my offer, if you want, I make you the bidding: you gave the limits and requirement, and I do the rest, including posting part to you).
Yeah, the answer is easy: buy an upgraded C16. In Hungary ~30-40% of the C16s were upgraded in the late 80s, almost all the schools did it themselves too (still it was much cheaper, than to buy the plus/4). It was a really good load for some service workshops. Iin Hungary there are thousands of C16 with 64K RAM. I had such a one too. Unfortunately I sold it to get my first PC. 
BTW, I just checked it, and on the Vatera there are one C16 64K without PSU, 20Euro. (I think too much for a non-working piece of HW).
The only drawback is the weak PSU of C16, that's why ~50-60% of the C16s were sold without PSU on Vatera. I am sure, that there should be a way to overcome on that point in the XXIst century. Should be alternative way...
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-07
00:50:47
 | Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Have you found one already?
I haven't checked Ebay lately but here in Germany there are plus/4s on Ebay every now and then.
Personally, I prefer the plus/4 keyboard. The C 16 one always felt weird to my fingers. It's a touchy topic 
About the 64kb:
As MMS said, many C 16s are extended already (inside). Alternatively, you could use a memory extension cartridge. Unless you plan to use another cartridge.
About the C 16 PSU:
The C 16 PSU that came with a C 16 bought on Ebay was defunct, too. So I bought a rotary switch adaptor (for various output voltages). It does 9V/1000mA and works like a charm It was around 10 Euros, maybe a bit more.
Here in Germany there has been one hardware supplier who sold special C 16 PSUs. Actually, he still might do so but I think a generic one like mine will do fine and is much cheaper.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-08
15:48:39
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Hi Chicken,
Great input, and thanks for the PSU suggestion. Should it be set very precisely, or it won't harm the computer with slightly higher voltage?
Any time I check Vatera.hu or Ebay.de (both I use for my purchases), 50-60% of C16 computers are without PSU (it really confirms, how weak design it was). I had one, and it was hot like hell, I could boil some water on it...
Just recently I saw a C16 one, which had an alternative PSU, without potmeter:
http://www.vatera.hu/commodore_c_16_os_118921725.html
It is also mentioned here:
http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28137&sid=ffca0e253c1a29b85b9fe89270cb2458
In fact the C16 has a much more rigid, but harder and noisier keyboard than Plus/4. In fact the cursos buttons of the plus/4 positioned much better place, BUT they had a very strange push feeling...
If I would do a comparison, Plus/4 keys behave like the laptop keyboard now (or the Genius superslim I use now), while C16 had a robust old fashioned PC keyboard style.
In fact I was also surprised, when after C16 very first time I used a C64C, C64 had much softer buttons...
In case of C16 you REALLY hear, if someone is programming next room
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-08
20:33:30
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Well, the adaptor (PSU) I'm using doesn't have small steps, it has 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9 and 12V. So I'm not sure about slightly higher/lower voltages.
Mine is just a generic PSU, surprisingly small and not heating up much (though, considering the weather, you might just want the opposite effect ). Just make sure you get a 1000mA one.
They sell it here...
http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6793
Most electronic discounters offer similar PSUs. Usually 1000mA ones are slightly more expensive.
This is the "web page" of Uwe Peters who might still be selling parts and special C 16 PSUs.
http://www.elektronik-technik.de/
I guess prices can't be compared to Ebay or discounters but everyone has to make a living.
About the keyboards...
Yeah, C 16 users tend to literally hack APOS (of Charon) used to hack his C 16 keyboard at an amazing speed rate. I could have never done that
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-09
15:55:59
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Yeah, my uncle (the owner of the C64C I touched very first time after my C16), started to shout: "DO NOT KILL THAT KEYBOARD!!!"
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Posted By
MMS
on 2009-01-24
05:21:27
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
I just checking the German Ebay, but the transport cost are even more horror
I just have a bad experience also: I bough from ebay.de a VERY small digital camera (Kodak V530), but they sent it is a huge package with full of paper, cost me 20 Euro (I think 10 Euro more than really required). Still, even together with trasnport it was cheaper, that it would have been bought in Hungary, but well, a little annyoing.
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Posted By
Chicken
on 2009-01-24
13:23:07
| Re: looking for a Plus 4 console
Hey MMS,
unfortunately, shipping costs are very high (compared to some other countries) in Germany. Especially, if you send an insured packet outside Germany. Usually, the size of the box doesn't make a difference. It's the weight that counts and the limits for a lower shipping fee are small (kinda like everything heavier than 500g costs the same as anything up to 5kg).
I shipped to Hungary before and tried to keep the shipping costs as low as possible. It was still "expensive".
Sometimes, it helps to check for an alternative service. Most people use DHL but HERMES was cheaper for me when mailing to certain countries.
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