| Posted By
MMS
on 2008-10-22
16:23:21
 |  Software sprites_Archon?
OK, some question on software sprites, as old topics on this issue not available.
It is related to my old idea to transfer an old C64 classic, Archon to Plussy.
But to start the work, I should clarify some technical backgrounds I am not aware.
Q1: is it possible to use HIRES sprites in the way to DO NOT modfy the background color till it is going through an area(s), which have a third color? (keeping in mind I can have 2 colors in a 8x8 matrix). I know the technical limitation of hires, just curious, if any hires sprite implemenation is able to overcome with eg. smart color changes?
Q2: Which one you prefer more?
HIRES
MULTI
Multi have little more colors, while Hires have more details. I prefer Hires, as with limited colors this converts shows great result. But as SPRITEs should be movel all over the screen, if it is not possible to create nice hires sprites, then I am force to use multi charset (OK, multi char color diversity and limitations is an other issue I should solve or keep in mind. this is just a draft)
BTW, these are 4x4 size characters, so such details would be visible. In the chessboard view only 2x2 character size is visible. In fact I plan a little change over the original game, that BIG characters would be bigger (dragon 4x4, troll, golem would be 3x3, manticore 3x2, while normal humans would be 2x2 only during fight --> more realistic)
Interesting, but in C64 Archon they seems to choose Multi sprites, while they usually have only 1 color...
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-10-22
16:24:34
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
CORR: BTW, these are 4x4 size characters, so such details would NOT be visible
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-10-23
06:44:05
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
Whatzup? Everyone is sleeping? Or just figting with the policemen?
(the last one is an old Hungarian folk activity) 
I saw many demos recently using sprites (multi and hires), that there should be some knowledge on that. Or I should trace back Pigmy's 20 years old letter? I suppose there should be some development over the 2 decades on that topic too
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-10-23
09:37:01
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
Give it time, someone will reply eventually
First of all, I also really liked Archon back in the day. I wished that someone would convert it to the Plussy. As for your first question, the answer is a simple no. I think you already know this though, you've drawn many pictures. A software sprite on the Plussy is just graphics that is drawn and removed, so what you are able to draw, that's all that's possible, there's no other magic trick.
For hires, you have about 4 options.
1) Just the let the colors bleed (there are many examples, such as Manic Miner).
2) Try to mitigate the problem by removing the background when the sprite is over it, see Booty.
3) Try to mitigate the problem by switching to hires FLI. This would limit the area of color bleed. I don't think there are any examples of this.
4) Try to mitigate the problem by interlacing the sprite. This would have no color bleed at all, so in a way it's the holy grail: the sprite and the background can have their own color. However, it will flicker annoyingly. I though Dooly would be an example of this, but even though the sprite is interlaced, it doesn't set the sprite's color.
Multi color is another story. BTW, I like the multicolor version of the sprites a bit better, but both sets are very nice.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-10-23
13:18:32
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
Many thanks for the detailed answer and the examples.
Well, I thought there could be a trick in HIRES mode to set with precise timing the colors ONLY on that part of character to the sprite color it is just covering, and the other part could keep their original color... I know it sound weird, as within the rasterline it would need very accurate change, but some of the coundbars I saw in demo have the feeling some guys can do that.
Thanks, this iconset is really draft, without the fine details, and lot of incorrect colors there. In case of the multi charset I am afraid, that in 16x16 character it would not too much better than the original, 20 years old one.
My main idea to make the game look MUCH better than the original, with all the improvements and technology improvement done in 20 years. Means much nicer sprites, marble-like chessboard, nice background around the sides (left and right, reflecting the side's settings, like evil and good), more complex information below, not just plain text.
I want to make a game make C64 owners say "wow!", by improved graphics and musics/sound. All the rest can be kept from the original game because it is perfect
For fun (converted)
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-10-24
14:38:04
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
New questions (during the time I decided to go for multicolor charcters )
1) what is the best multicolor character and animation tool on plus/4?
Or it is better if I look for a PC tool, do the animations and after conversion (PC graph --> plus/4 graph --> plus/4 charset) I get the charactermap?
2) When a character is moving left and right, does the plus/4 fast enough to do the mirroring of the character "on the fly?". I mean to have 2 4x4 charset per direction instead of 4
I know it is lame questions, but this would be the first game I would be involved
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-10-24
15:43:43
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
1) I guess this one depends on what your development style is. Shameless plug: I do all my graphics with Csabo's Gfx Edit, which is a tool for the PC. It handles animations. Other gfx guys may have better suggestions for you though.
2) Yes. One 4x4 sprite is only 16 characters * 8 bytes = 128 bytes of data. You can easily mirror 128 bytes at full frame rate.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-04
17:14:05
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
Is there any source here or on the internet I may check for SW-sprites on Plus/4?
I checked the encyclopedia, but found no similar. Or should i say so simple to save the background, then XOR the soft-sprite image,and that's all? too easy
Anyhow, the biggest limitation is really the number of ueable colors, even in multicolor. I made that sprite-set based on some concept arts and ideas, but the 3 fixed colors for multicolor characters are more than annoying
Yeah, if C= developers could spend extra 2 K color memory (both in graphical and multi character mode), then EVERY character could have free 4 colors, and this machine could be as killer in 8 bit graph, like the Amiga later... huh. What a lost chance, not to speak about the black color's 1 shade io. 8 (16 grey colors! would be astonishing). Did I mention that all colors should have 16 shades, not 8, damn blinking bit....
OK, that's enough for today on the sprites )
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-11-04
22:18:41
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
You are right about the algorithm. It is as easy as you described! Basically in every frame:
1) Restore saved area
2) Move sprite to new coordinates
3) Save area under sprite
4) Draw (and optionally mask) the sprite
The implementation details will vary depending on a lot of factors (e.g. are you in graphics mode or character mode, are you using double buffering, etc. ). If you need a working example, Quadrillion has a 8x8 pixel multicolor soft sprite and the source is up.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2008-11-05
04:40:44
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
Great, thanks !!!!
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Posted By
Luca
on 2008-11-29
04:05:32
 | Re: Software sprites_Archon?
Mh, all this thread makes me think that I approached the worst sprites situation in Thalassa: a non-homogeneous charmap, animation, masking and all the rest. Next time, I'll start from the easier way, damn 
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Posted By
register
on 2020-10-25
04:33:00
| Re: Software sprites_Archon?
I never thought there were games relying on sprite interlacing. Actually on my emulator the main sprite flickers a bit but it doesn't look bad at all. How does it look like on real HW? Is there any other instance of this maybe in multicolor mode?
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