| Posted By
Chronos
on 2008-09-12
07:27:25
 |  demomaking tools
i just thinking about a demomaking tool just like ones on pc.. irq loader/linker/ numerous effects .. and its going just like lego 
i know its only a dream, but when we collaborate a little bit it will be easier (and less time consuming) to develop new products..
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Posted By
Ati
on 2008-09-12
13:10:24
| Re: demomaking tools
Lego? Where?
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Posted By
Jakec
on 2008-09-15
03:16:08
| Re: demomaking tools
Sweet dreams!!! Why???
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2008-09-15
10:29:29
| Re: demomaking tools
nevermind.. i'm over 30 and yet naive
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Posted By
Patrick
on 2008-09-15
14:54:08
| Re: demomaking tools
what is wrong with the excisting demomaking tools?
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-09-15
16:11:22
| Re: demomaking tools
Króna, I think we are on the same train of though. I thought something like this up and even started coding it, I made only two effects, raster and a DXYCP.
I realized the need for this after writing a few demos and seeing that I keep repeating myself. Even now, I have a small "library", that contains common functions that I don't want to rewrite. But something like putting up a scroll or a raster, fading them in/out etc, should be done only once.
The idea would be to make a plugin system, where every effect is a plugin, and you "write" the demo by selecting and configuring plugins. The way I see it, we just write regular ASM source code, but put up special markers, and the demomaking framework assembles it into a new source file. So no actual assembly would be done, it's basically just very fancy text replacement, and the end result is a compileable source file.
To get a bit more into the details: each effect would have to implement certain calls:
- init (get yourself ready, initialize any tables, etc)
- fade in (should be obvious)
- render (this is when the effect is actually showing, so this must be tied to a rasterline)
- poll (this is when the effect is doing it's job, e.g. a plasma animating itself, etc, also must be tied to a rasterline)
- shutdown
The effects would have to declare their needs in terms of memory allocation and zero page variables. The framework would keep track of the state of each effect, and call them while running, then wait for them to shut down (fade out) etc. Each effect would have configurable input parameters. Examples: for the raster, obviously the color data, for a plasma, the width and the height. More importantly they would have to expose the time it takes to do their job (measured in rasterlines), so that the framework could decide when to poll them. If we design the framework right, anyone could make effects, and they could be a simple or as complex as needed, and anyone could make demos. It would be interesting to see what non-programmers would come up with.
If I have time, I'll work on this more (translation: never gonna happen , but if this was a group effort, it would have more of a chance of seeing completion. For that to happen, we would have to decide on the language first of all, my preferred one would be Dephi (see all my PC tools), but I'm open on using something else.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2008-09-15
17:12:37
| Re: demomaking tools
Excellent idea. How about C# for language? It is quite straightforward...
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Posted By
Jakec
on 2008-09-16
00:02:03
| Re: demomaking tools
Ok, excellent idea. But only demo? First I make LiveCD boot to commy plus4 kernel.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2008-09-16
17:39:38
| Re: demomaking tools
This sounds like an interesting idea. But even if a full application for creating demos is not written, having a library of commonly used assembly code for various effects, loaders, etc. could be useful ? Also some tools for specific tasks, like a really good cross-platform paint program, are still to be developed. Or how about an IDE with a built-in debugger ?
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Posted By
Patrick
on 2008-10-07
11:29:49
| Re: demomaking tools
@csabo, u write about a small "library" that u have. is it possible that it appear in the plus/4 encyclopedia or somewhere else on the site? love to have a look at them. there are so many very good coders in the scene, maybe 'us' beginners can learn something of them!!
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Posted By
Csabo
on 2008-10-07
13:42:28
| Re: demomaking tools
Yes, it's available. I released the full source of all my recent demos and games. You can check 8 Shades Of Black for example, the files would be "common1.asm" and "common2.asm". Perhaps those by themselves are not that useful, but I think playing around with someone else working code, changing bits and re-compiling it, is a good way of learning how things are done.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2008-10-08
03:11:05
 | Re: demomaking tools
Yes, that was an idea Csabo and me had just evaluated in the past: to have a code's library for base stuff, plus some working examples, in order to keep separated what should be a common code for that purpose and what's a proposed personal version of it.
For example: PLASMA.ASM would be the standard SIN(A)+SIN(B) with 4 parameters A B C D, then I would add my personal version with 3*SIN, for example...
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