Posted By
Exin
on 2007-08-22
12:38:40
|  Different TED's??
Before the Evoke party i needed to change the ted of my plus/4 quickly, because it seems it had some keyboard problems.
Now i got much diffrent colours. Especially the colours are more bright now and the Yellow is really yellow this time!
Are there differences between some TED series in video output?
(Now i can understand some people's colour schemes in emulators/tools)
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-08-22
12:48:59
| Re: Different TED's??
That's interesting... I've definitely never seen differences between the colors of different TEDs. May I ask you to list the type and date codes of the two TEDs?
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-08-22
15:05:08
| Re: Different TED's??
Did you try on the same monitor? (just to be sure...  )
There are at least 3 TED revisions including the prototype one (which could even be significantly different from the production ones): R0, R1 and R2. I guess 95 percent of the machines have a R2 version but that's just my educated guess.
Anyway I do have a working C16 somewhere with a revision 1 TED chip, I might have a go at it if I can find it in this mess here 
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-08-22
15:06:48
 | Re: Different TED's??
R2 as the common one? I'm full of 8501R1 machines, look at the hardware page, I wasn't able to find a darn R2 to get a picture!
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-08-22
15:10:15
| Re: Different TED's??
Really?? That's odd! I think all of my TED's are R2 except that very one in one of my C16's... Would be good to know from which date Commodore started producing R2 chips. It could have been as early as 1984.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-08-22
15:11:00
| Re: Different TED's??
Gee... Luca, I'm talking about TED chips _NOT_ the CPU
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-08-22
15:20:41
| Re: Different TED's??
Oops you're right. Ok, lemme check... Yes, I checked 3-4 Plus/4s and have found R2 only, getting white dirt on the fingers because all the TEDs have cooling paste on. Apropos, could I use the PC CPUs silver paste to better cool down a TED?
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Posted By
Exin
on 2007-08-22
15:45:57
| Re: Different TED's??
Luca: Send me a password by email, so i can post as exin.
I will check when i'm back home tomorrow. I tried both chips on my Commodore monitor.
Ofcourse that will involve cleaning both chips.
anyways, i also looked that both chips were connected by Chroma/luma and not composite video (Where colours are mostly stroger)
I checked it with my own pictures...the very bright tones were a bit darker and more colourful, but they still looked brighter than white...
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-08-22
15:47:08
| Re: Different TED's??
I see no reason why you couldn't but I might be proven wrong otherwise (right, TLC? ) Levente said once that if anything required cooling at all in the plus/4, it was the CPU not the TED.
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-08-22
15:48:53
| Re: Different TED's??
Exin: can you check the TED revisions (just for kicks...)?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2007-08-22
15:53:36
| Re: Different TED's??
I'll cover it rain-like then
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Posted By
Exin
on 2007-08-22
15:59:29
| Re: Different TED's??
Well, i'm not at home now...i need to go home tomorrow...
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Posted By
TLC
on 2007-08-23
03:57:16
| Re: Different TED's??
Thinking it over again: I probably haven't seen the picture generated by a 7360 in my whole life, so... well, I'm not sure. I'd like to see numbers, and, possibly, pictures (if it's possible).
I know that there are color differences between different series of VIC-20s (but that's not a result of different videochips but different analog circuitry). I also know that the first series of VIC-II chips had different luma levels, but, ...well, when they designed the TED, they already had the 6569 with the final luma level table. The TED is at least a third generation chip in this respect... if different series had different colors, well, that should probably have been a result of different manufacturing technology... whatever...
Luca: yes, these materials are very similar (or simply the same) so you can use them.
Gaia: yep =-). Somehow they get very hot. ...This shouldn't be a problem alone (they don't get fried), the problem is: breakdowns of these chips are generally triggered by stresses of thermal dilatation around flaws in the structure of the silicon. The higher the temperature differences, the higher the dilatation stress (thus, the chances that it will break eventually). It's very interesting, btw... I've got a couple of 1541's and VIC-20s (all with original 6502 cpus) but I've never (ever) seen a faulty 6502. I've seen some broken 6510s and 8500s (C64) but most of them were killed by stresses (faulty power supply and similar things). That's sort of different from the 8501 (which is the most likely faulty part in a dead Plus/4). ...I can't think of any other reasons but heat differences, as the manufacturing technology has been the same to at least the 8500.
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Posted By
Exin
on 2007-08-26
15:46:30
| Re: Different TED's??
Hi again!
I had some time in the middle.
The TEDS are both standrad Revision 2 TEDS.
But the one i use now is óne from 1986 and from honkong, the otheres are from 1984 and from Korea...
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Posted By
Gaia
on 2007-08-30
06:05:48
| Re: Different TED's??
This is very interesting! Could you make screenshots maybe? The best would be to measure them with an oscilloscope of course (well, the luma levels at least, as those are different as you're claiming)... are there other people out there with Hongkong made TEDs (I've checked a couple of machines of mine and I don't seem to have any)?
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