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| | Previous Messages | Posted By
Chronos
on 2011-05-26
16:43:55
 |  Re: Converting gfx made on PC
thx bro!
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Posted By
Chronos
on 2011-05-26
14:00:29
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
All of Istvan's files are deleted from rapidshare 
Can you throw it here or somewhere? THX!
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-09
10:16:41
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
If you already have the 1.2.9.2 package from SourceForge installed, then it should be enough to unzip the .7z files to separate directories, and run the new executables from there; the ROM files etc. will still be found and used from the installed version. It is the simplest solution, although it also uses the most disk space.
To "upgrade" an installation of the original release, delete all EXE and DLL files from the installation directory, and copy those from the .7z package (note: the uninstaller will not remove the libgcc and libstdc++ DLLs, which are new in the .7z version).
Having both the new i686 and pentium4 executables in the same directory tree is also possible, by renaming and copying just the .exe files needed (e.g. p4fliconv_gui.exe, if you only want the converter).
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-09
09:58:26
 | Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Thanks IstvanV! My intention is to keep and rename the new version's file I need to have both. Strictly, which are the files I can rename and copy into my previous installation?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-09
07:22:21
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Pentium 2 instructions, optimized for Athlon XP:
http://rapidshare.com/files/456595465/p4fliconv_20110409_i686.7z
Other than being compiled for older CPUs, the package is identical to the previous one. It also has the limitation that Plus/4 palette detection does not work in .GIF files, only .XPM.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-09
06:43:48
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Thank Csio, I checked it.
IstvanV: may I ask for a compiled build working on my old cpu too?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-09
05:30:17
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
...and the download link has gone :/
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Posted By
MMS
on 2011-04-08
17:04:02
 | Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Hi Istvan, that hint to enter the value in hexa, is great! It really helps.
(BTW I am a rather experienced user of your tool(s), I surely spent several dozens of hours with them, and really enjoy every moment when I get a nice result  )
http://my.opera.com/MMSZoli/albums/show.dml?id=6789582
My previous post was done on my Intel E6400.
Today I tried Istvan's latest version on my good 6-year old Shuttle PC with AMD Athlon64 3000+, and it works perfectly.
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-08
14:17:39
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Luca: yesterday i tried it as you, in Athlon 1800+ and nothing happens just the sand-hour flashed a bit
Istvan: Can we contact in email? I have some personal questions. You can see my addresses in my page.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-08
10:34:54
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Yes, I tried to run it on an old Athlon AMD XP 2200+.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-08
09:26:44
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
More on the Multi Botticelli format: to save in this format, select any of the "raw PRG" options, and set the compression level to 0; it loads to $7800-$9F3F, that is why the image data needs to be relocated to $1800 to make it visible with a simple GRAPHIC 3 or 4 command in BASIC. Also, the $FF15 color is stored at $7BFF, and the $FF16 color is at $7BFE, but the upper and lower 4 bits are swapped, so if the stored value is $67 for example, then you need to write $76 to the color register.
As mentioned by Luca, you can load the file to any address when using YAPE; with plus4emu, use the monitor in the debugger to load to $1800: the command L "" 1800 will show a dialog to select the file to be loaded (alternatively, you can specify a file name, which will be searched in the directory set with Alt+Q). Here is a simple BASIC program that loads an image file and sets the colors:
10 graphic 4
20 open 1,8,0,"test"
30 get#1,a$:get#1,a$
40 for i=6144 to 16190 step 2:get#1,a$,b$:poke i,asc(a$):poke i+1,asc(b$):next
50 close 1
60 color 0,(peek(7167) and 240)/16+1,peek(7167) and 7
70 color 3,(peek(7166) and 240)/16+1,peek(7166) and 7
It can easily be tested with IEC drive emulation, although the program is rather slow.
Of course, it is also possible to set the address of the bitmap and attribute data with TED:
$FF12 = bitmap_address / $2000 * 8
$FF14 = attribute_address AND $F8
This BASIC program displays a Multi Botticelli format image loaded to the default address ($7800):
10 poke 65286,59
20 poke 65287,24
30 poke 65298,32
40 poke 65300,120
50 color 0,(peek(31743) and 240)/16+1,peek(31743) and 7
60 color 3,(peek(31742) and 240)/16+1,peek(31742) and 7
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-08
09:12:53
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
i didn't read your message carefully... i tried it in my home (p4 2.8 fsb800) and yesssss, it is working well!
THANKYOU!
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-08
08:06:16
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Did you use an older CPU without SSE/SSE2 support ? The .7z package was compiled like the "pentium4" version on SourceForge.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-04-08
02:45:38
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Carrion:
look at Multi Botticelli's page, in the bottom you can read the graphic format, that's the format Istvan's converter save to, very useful. Usually, when you input GRAPHIC4, you see the $2000-$3F3F memory area, and for that it reads colors from $1800-$1FE7 as default ($FF14=#$0F). Just like the Multi Botticelli format, the first half of the colour map is for colours ($1800-$1BE7, you see some bytes are wasted till $1C00) in the format xy, where x is colour1 and y is colour2 in that 4x8 box; the second half is for luminances ($1C00-$1FE7) in the same format xy. You see: 16 colours and 8 luminances (apart the black, which is the same in all the luminances), hence $1C00 = #$4B is the same of $1C00 = #$C3 (I mean: don't care the last bit). Multi Botticelli also store the two fixed colours'info into the wasted bytes. The same if you see that as GRAPHIC2, hires, with no use of the two fixed colours this time. YAPE allows you to load anything starting to the location you decide, hence if you wanna see a MultiBotticelli's file as GRAPHIC4, you simply load it from $1800 forced.
I love Timanthes, but it uses C64 colour rules! So, you have to remember by yourself: 2 fixed colours which are the same in the whole pic, and 2 colours which can be different in any 4x8 box.
@Istvan:
have to admit, I downloaded the new version of the converter, and it does not work (xp sp3 32bit).
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-04-07
23:04:15
 | Re: Converting gfx made on PC
all:
thanks for quick replies.
I know multiboticelli but his screenshot look a bit dofferent. i don't know why but it feels diferent from a mboticelli that i use... what is the latest version?
regarding colors... I actually figured it out how the multicolor on +4 works. Its not that hard when you know how it works on c64 and that there's no thing like $D800 but instesad you have colors and limnaces from $1800 to $2000 - kool thing I have to say!
i play with monitor and graphic 4 mode a bit. what i want to ask you is:
the normal gfx mode memory starts from $1800-$2000 - colors/luma $2000-4000 - bitmap
is the way to save the pic from the converter so it loads from $1800 so i can just do a basic GRAPHIC 4 command and see the result?
how are the pics from converted saved? what address?
are there a TED banks (like VIC banks/areas) where you can select where to sotre the bitmap/colors?
TIAps. I start to like +4 more and more
and btw: I have a Timanthes pallete to share if you want to pixel with this tool.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-07
18:39:43
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Well, I think actually you can enter hexadecimal values, by using a 0x prefix. For example, 0x71 is white (L=7, C=1), 0x6e is the "default" border color (L=6, C=14), etc.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2011-04-07
15:28:48
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
yeah, Istvan, I had this finding too.  but in hexa it is more understandable/visual and would need less calculation,no? This is what i told, that i am very bad in calculation on the fly. With an other mouse control method, like the color's shades come after each other,would also help you to identify,exactly where you are and what will come next. What do you think?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-07
10:47:01
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
The colors that can be set in the converter are simple Plus/4 color codes, just not in hexadecimal format. Values greater than 127 are actually redundant, and repeat the colors from 0 to 127. The color code can be calculated as 16*L+C, where L is the luminance (0 to 7), and C is the color (0=black, 1=white, ..., 15=light green). For example, 0, 16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, and 112 are all black, while 15, 31, 47, 63, 79, 95, 111, and 127 are light green with increasing luminance. A quick way to find colors is to click on the number, and drag the mouse left or right, as if using a slider; this will adjust the value, and when you release the mouse button, the color will be shown in the square next to the number. Note that this dragging trick also works on all the other number inputs, and in the emulator as well.
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Posted By
MMS
on 2011-04-07
01:38:35
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Hi,
it is the Multibotticelli. It is an icon command based native multicolor drawing tool for plus/4 , developped in Hungary some 25 years ago (sold in the shops too). I think it is (especially due to it's GEOS-like GUI) the best drawing program for normal multicolor pictures on Plus/4. You can download it from Plus/4 World.
In the past I used Microillustrator, but finally I found this one to be much better.
It is very good for "pixel-hunting", I mean during convertion there is always 1 or 2 (OK, some dozens of) pixels "not OK" has to be corrected manually. With this tool it is easy, as it has eg. color cycle mode, not changing the colors, just can test, if any of the already set 4 colors would better fit for that pixel than the one currently set (I hope I was clear)
There is a version for "normal" bitmats too, called just Botticelli. I do not use that version due to color limitations
Despite there are some good PC-based picture drawing cross-tools, I still prefer this one, as being one of the most comfortable and easy tool.
Via Plus4Emu it is very good to work with, if you setup a D64 disc (or 3-4), and use the Dirmaster application to move to and from the files for PC.
Also with Quality3 Display setting the picture looks the same as on a CRT TV/monitor, I mean Plus4Emu "washes" the colors together, causing much nicer color transitions than on "normal" LCD TV I use now (32" LCD) I have a clue, how it will really look like, hehe.
The only disadvantage, that the saved file is not useable at once from BASIC program, it has to be reallocated in the memory, and few color bits to be swapped (for guys using assembly, it is not a big problem). For this conversion any of the cross-tools is OK, if you do not like the built-in TED monitor commands...) Csabo Editor is one of the best for this, though sometimes after opening the picture it corrupts it by drawing a loooong line across the picture (at least on my PC), then just try again...
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-04-07
00:53:40
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
just curious.
what is the name of the tool on the screenshot with a car?
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Posted By
MMS
on 2011-04-06
18:24:20
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Csio,
I think this package if for all, includes the sourse code too. Just unzip the complete package into a folder with a newer eg. WinRar, and you will have the FLIconvGUI.EXE there, together with Plus4EMU. No install needed. I just tried it out, and working properly.
Istvan, Only one more thing: I could never really decode, how at the color setting the 255 numbers fit to our most liked 121 colors? I always had problems to properly set these colors, and especially with mouse from the bed is horrible
Is there no way to adjust/show it in hexadecimal way? Then at least I know and able to follow, what does the left and right numbers mean (left one could be the brightness 0-7, while the right is $0-F). Sorry, I am really bad in counting in head... And the 255 value also confuses me: it is bright green. Why?
Possibly the color and brightness setting may happen in two separated fields, though it would make the GUI wider, and little less standardized...
Just for fun: some "normal" 160x200 multicolor pictures I converted with Istvan's tool and played with them a little (I think the converter did a great job):
http://my.opera.com/MMSZoli/albums/show.dml?id=6763602
(Screenshots made from Plus4EMU display output with Quality3 setting. I cannot test them yet with a real HW, I am waiting for my floppy drive right now :-)
I think Quality 3 setting shows rather faithfully, how a CRT TV showed my pictures (as I remember) )
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-06
18:00:56
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
I think if you have the original 1.2.9.2 version already installed somewhere, then it should be enough to simply unzip the package to another directory, and run the .exe files from there.
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-06
16:57:53
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
hey Istvan, big thx for ya! will try it today!
thanx again!
khm....sorry, but I have to cause disappointment.
Some peoples here know well what is my IQ level and help me a lot in my every llama request, like this: installation.
I can't install this version of plus4emu, sorry but i acclimatized to one exe file when installing and my knowledge is end in here.
I have win-xp-32bit-pentium-4.
Can somebody help me?
My regular helpers are: Csabo, Luca and Krona. Please join to us!
thx!
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Posted By
MMS
on 2011-04-05
12:45:30
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
wow, that speed of implementation was really impressive, Istvan! 
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-05
10:57:18
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Here is the modified version:
http://rapidshare.com/files/456008433/p4fliconv_20110405.7z
NOTE: this build does not support Plus/4 palette detection in .GIF files, because I did not use a patched FLTK library. You need to use .XPM format files for pixel exact conversion.
Setting a fixed $FF15 and/or $FF16 color is implemented for both the non-FLI multicolor mode, and all the multicolor FLI modes, although I did not test it. It is not possible to disable the use of a color, other than by setting a fixed value that is unlikely to be used.
The package also includes all the other plus4emu binaries, although only the source code of the converter has been changed; the new executables may run slightly faster, though, due to being compiled with a more recent GCC version.
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-04
17:49:46
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Yes, thanks the example!
i have a simple multicolor pics with no diffusions, lots of filled objects, fixed $ff15 and ff16 like ff15=00, ff16=71.
what is your opinion?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-04
17:03:31
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
There is no simple rule on how the colors are chosen, the converter tries to find those that result in the least possible difference from the input image.
Do you mean a common optimized $FF15/$FF16 for multiple pictures ? Or, if the colors are fixed and already known, what are the actual values needed, and in what mode (e.g. $FF15=0, $FF16=$71, non-FLI multicolor) ?
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-04
08:42:10
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Istvan: has the converter any trick when it's converting? Like the first pixel of the first char-color will be the $ff15 or like this? what is the system? How can decide it what is $ff15, ff16, or colormem? I have some pics and i want to equal all $ff15 and ff16 on one
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Posted By
MMS
on 2011-04-03
18:37:55
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Well, few months back I was also thinking about the same thing, looking for the setting, if I can set the background and 3rd color for the picture in advance (or maybe pick from a list).
The cause of that: if you want something to scroll through the picture, the text should be well readible. I think for such a scrolltext is a white color, and 3rd color to be used. Then there is no color clash at all (haha, finally a good part of 3rd color, otherwise I really hate it :-) ).
If you have a preferred picture, but cannot set in advance the preferred colors, it is just a question of luck, if you could use the picture for the white text accross that or not.
When I was thinking about that, this clip was in my mind (at 0:47):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27a6t_dannii-minogue-i-begin-to-wonder_music
In fact, most of the cases (some dozens of multicolor pictures I converted and edited in Multibotticelli) the 3rd color or the background color was set by the converter to white color's highest or second to highest brightness. Any of them would do the task.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-03
18:11:15
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
If it is only needed for a single picture/demo, what are the exact requirements ? That is, the mode to be used, and the $FF15/$FF16 values ?
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-03
17:36:16
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
and how can we ask you for the support of it?!?
maybe...please help!
it is very important in spec. case, i think..so please hack it for Monarchy
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-04-03
17:01:33
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
If you mean setting a fixed $FF15 and/or $FF16 color for the conversion, or not allowing the use of one or both of these, then unfortunately the converter does not support it (other than by hacking the source code and building a modified version of the program for a particular conversion).
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-04-03
16:26:21
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Istvan, can i have a question?
- how can i fix the colors of $ff15 and $ff16 in a converting pics, or have any choice for this?
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-22
15:28:08
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Great
I start to pixel something this weekend thou 
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-22
14:10:01
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
There is no such limitation on the Plus/4, FLI can use the full 40 characters width.
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-22
13:53:34
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
OK it's starting to work now... and it looks great.
Thanks all for help.
btw: Do C+4 FLI has an FLI-bug like C64 has? This bug makes it not possible to pixel on first 3 chars... what are the limitations regarding this?
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-03-22
05:18:09
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Oh finally. This is the really important stuff I tried to emphasize since the very beginning of this topic: you need to set the right rules into your prefer gfx tool, in order to have a 100% matching once converted on Plus/4.
Carrion: Istvan neatly described the DFLI colour limitation in a 4x8 low resoultion box. Cx and Cy are the changing colors in any 4x2 box (DFLI where D stands for double, you can see C1 and C2 in two screen lines), Lw and Lz may be changed by every line but you must keep'em both for the whole 160x1 screen line:
C1 C2 L1 L2
C1 C2 L3 L4
C3 C4 L5 L6
C3 C4 L7 L8
C5 C6 L9 L10
C5 C6 L11 L12
C7 C8 L13 L14
C7 C8 L15 L16
And for normal MC, you just knew: C64 has 1 fixed color and 3 colours you can change every 4x8 box; Plus/4 has 2 fixed colours and 2 colours you can change every 4x8 box.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-21
18:32:13
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
I think "DFLI" refers to the limitation of being able to implement FLI only for pairs of lines, or "double" FLI. This is caused by the different way of fetching attribute data on the Plus/4 compared to the C64: the VIC-II can read all in a single line using a separate 4-bit color RAM and a 12-bit data bus, while the TED needs two lines: first the luminance, which is displayed only after a delay of one line, and then the colors. However, with some restrictions, it is still possible to have FLI in every line on the Plus/4: it is either limited to greyscale (or shades of any other color, which can be different in each column), or the luminance data is also interpreted as color for the "previous" (i.e. where it is actually fetched) line, depending on the timing.
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-21
16:52:07
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
@Istvan:
I havent seen a FLI editor on C64 allowing to change background color but the thing is certainly possible...
neverethless what i plan to do is to use Timanthes (search CSDB for this great tool) to simulate C+4 restrictions 9mainly multicolor) with its layer capabilities.
btw: Timantes allowes to use any pallete so I'll use it anyway for C+4 pixeling... I have to test you pallete now so .. till next time ;
btw: is there any difference between FLI and DFLI? I've seen these terms here used IMO for the same thing?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-21
16:02:20
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
C64 multicolor FLI is slightly different from Plus/4, and less restricted:
- two colors can be set for 4x1 cells
- one color for 4x8 cells (this is the VIC-II color memory)
- one "background" color that is like $FF15/$FF16 on the Plus/4, and may be changed for each line
The multicolor FLI mode of p4fliconv supports these:
- two colors for 4x2 cells (DFLI)
- two background colors for $FF15/$FF16, these can be set separately for each line
- X shift ($FF07) can also be different for each line (if not 0, then the display is automatically limited to 38 columns)
- if the vertical resolution is greater than 200 lines, then, for a pair of lines, it is only possible to have either separate $FF07 or $FF15 values (the converter will choose whichever is better with optimized X shift)
It is not possible to convert C64 FLI to Plus/4 without clashes, in fact, even the simple non-FLI multicolor mode is problematic, as there are 3 colors that can be set independently for each 4x8 character cell.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-03-21
15:31:51
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Just to repeat my old question: do Plus/4 FLIs work like C64 FLIs? Are you sure the graphician forced the very right conditions while drawing?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-21
14:26:27
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
The options I have described should be available in the version included with plus4emu 1.2.9.2, which can be downloaded from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/plus4emu/files/plus4emu/plus4emu-1.2.9.2/. For image conversion, the "pentium4" packages are faster, but do not run on old CPUs without SSE/SSE2 support.
There should be three dithering options, Type, Limit, and Dither diffusion parameter. The following types are available:
- None
- Ordered (Bayer)
- Ordered (randomized)
- Diffuse (Floyd-Steinberg)
- Diffuse (Jarvis)
- Diffuse (Stucki)
- Diffuse (Sierra2)
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-21
13:10:22
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
guys, guys
IMO its starting to work verry well. forget the details on this pic - it was supposed to be only a test. so I'll use all the tricks described here later today but i have one concern.
in version I use theres no option "none" for the dithering....
where can i get the latest vresion of the converter? the one i use is from the plus4emu downloaded on this website.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-21
11:01:12
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
By the way, it is also possible to use XPM format images for the "pixel exact" conversion. Simply opening the original lady2.gif in the GIMP, and then saving it as an XPM file made the palette detection work, without the manual palette editing that was needed with GIF.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-21
10:39:24
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Yes, it seems to have disappeared. Fortunately the "fixed" GIF version is still there. I have created a new converted image as an animated GIF to show the differences from the original. It also includes a conversion with an X shift setting of 4 instead of "Optimized"; this way, there is more conversion error overall, but the sides are cleaner:
http://tinypic.com/r/10qfbzl/7
Frames 1 and 3 are the original picture, frame 2 is the optimized X shift, and frame 4 is X shift = 4. The same effect can be achieved by setting the X offset to 8 or -8, and the shift to 0, which allows for saving in FED format.
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Posted By
onlychecker
on 2011-03-21
09:28:26
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Istvan, this photo has been removed by Imageshack
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-03-20
19:15:55
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Checked your new GIF Istvan: better conversion, but worse in the sides...
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-03-20
15:07:55
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
A quick test with no change on your palette. Some slight pixel differencies are circled in red. And a doubt: I guessed that C64 FLI rules are different from Plus/4 FLI rules, isn't it?
  
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-20
14:41:58
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
The file seems to have a 256 color palette, however, the upper 128 colors are not the Plus/4 palette, but are simply all white, with a transparent color 128. To make the palette detection in the converter work, these extra non-Plus/4 colors need to be removed. The exact way to do this depends on the image editing programs you use. With the GIMP v2.6.7, I was able to fix the palette, although it was somewhat tricky: I have loaded the file (the GIMP seems to remove unused colors from the end of the palette on loading), used "Image/Flatten Image" to remove the transparency, and finally had to edit the colormap to add 4 missing colors (which would again be filled with white when saving) - I did this by copying the colors from the luminance=6 row, and increased the R,G,B values by $30.
Once you do have a GIF file with a fixed palette, you can see it immediately if the palette detection works: the unconverted version of the image should be displayed in p4fliconv smaller than the full window width, and without interpolated scaling.
I tried to convert it to multicolor FLI, and used the following options:
- clicked "Reset to defaults"
- set Conversion type to Multicolor FLI
- reduced Vertical resolution to 200
- set Dither Type to None
- increased Multicolor quality to 30 (this is only needed for final conversions, for quick testing of parameters, it can be much lower)
- left X shift at Optimized (this results in a 38 column display, but that is not a problem with this picture)
- on the Advanced page, checked Disable interpolation
With these settings, I got a conversion error of 0.0259, and some clashes, most noticeable at the left and right edges.
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-20
13:18:09
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
there you go
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/21703767/lady2.gif
its my old FLI pic from C64 with C+4 colors. I know it could have clashes when converted to C+4 but at least I want to see propoer colors after conversion.
Cant wait how it will look like on C+4.
regards
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-17
14:51:52
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Can you upload the GIF file to somewhere ? I could check if there is any problem with the palette, and try converting it.
By the way, white should be color 113.
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-17
14:38:06
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
ok here are the steps ive taken so far:
1. i made a screenshot from vice to have exact colors
2. took the palette from it
3. pixeled something with only 4 colors - in fat pixels (160x200) but in 320x200 resolution
4. saved as gif (black=0, white=121)
5. used p4con... gui and set the dither options to 0
converter still tries to use dither and uses wrong colors....
any ideas?
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-15
17:55:36
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
There is actually no check for the Spectrum palette in p4fliconv. However, the C64 palette is detected in GIF files, if there are 16 colors similar enough to VICE C64 screenshots; this will also enable the pixel exact mode, and colors will be converted according to the C64 palette set in the options.
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-03-14
18:47:31
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
...and that's the reason why I use .gifs taken from Spectrum when I need to convert Spectrum stuff to C64/Plus4 with p4fliconv.
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-14
18:34:04
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
A minor correction to the above post: clearing "Optimize for PAL color filtering" is actually not needed when dithering is disabled, since it has no effect without dithering. Also, if a GIF file with the Plus/4 palette is successfully detected, interpolation is automatically disabled.
If you create a Plus/4 palette by saving a screenshot in VICE, then - at least with the version I tested - using the BMP format is recommended, as PNG files are saved in 24-bit RGB format, and PCX have 256 colors with random garbage in the upper half of the palette (this prevents the Plus/4 palette detection in p4fliconv from working).
For "pixel exact" conversion with p4fliconv, you need a GIF or XPM format input file, because the library I used for reading images automatically converts BMP and PNG files to RGB format.
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-14
15:43:50
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
All:
thanks for sugestions. I'll try them all later this week and get back here with more questions
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-03-14
15:01:14
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
woww!
i want to be the first who say a big thanks for this, every line of your reply is new for me, i am lama, i know, but now i will try these practicles too!
thx
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Posted By
IstvanV
on 2011-03-14
11:32:06
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
If you use p4fliconv to convert the image, the following need to be done for a lossless (if possible), pixel exact conversion:
- in the options, set "Dither" to "None"
- on the Advanced tab, make sure that "Disable interpolation" is checked
- for hires formats, either clear "Optimize for PAL color filtering", or set "Luminance search mode" to "MinRMSErr_YUV_Downsampled"
- save the image in GIF (not PNG or other) format, and make sure that it has a Plus/4 palette, with all colors in the correct order (color 0 = black, color 113 = white, etc.); if a transparent color is inserted as color 0 (shifting the other colors so that color 1 is black), it is not a problem. If the converter detects a file in this format, a special conversion mode is enabled, which avoids the errors resulting from searching for the Plus/4 colors nearest to those found in the input image
The following options have an effect only if you are converting to a multicolor format, or hires in "MinRMSErr_YUV_Downsampled" mode:
- Multicolor quality: set it to the maximum to avoid/reduce conversion errors
- MC chrominance error scale: if a lossless conversion is not possible, then the lower it is set, the less important the color information becomes relative to luminance
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Posted By
Luca
on 2011-03-13
17:17:03
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
That's what we were very surprised of Piesiu's Wonderland picture and especially how he performed to draw it. I think the secret is in the rules he used to work on Grafx2. You know that formats like DFLI or MCI modify the variables in a picture, the pic's shape too. If you force Grafx2 to constrain your drawing into the exact rules of the format you're aiming to, you should have absolutely no problem in converting it with the powerful converter you've just used (with a little help of dimensional variables in the /options). Example: no dithering -> set it to zero!
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Posted By
Csio
on 2011-03-13
17:04:46
| Re: Converting gfx made on PC
Hello and welcome in Plus/4 world!!!!
ok, then maybe you can try this:
if you have the bitmap with right sizes and colors, try to convert it with Bubis' DFLI conv
http://plus4world.powweb.com/tools/DFliConv
and after load it into Csabo's Gfx Edit
http://plus4world.powweb.com/dl/tools/gfxedit/gfxedit.zip
and you can fix it with this, and after save it and thats all.
For more info contact with the author of Csabo's gfx editor as Csabo of Lod
who can integrate your all request into this editor.
So let's draw!!!
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Posted By
carrion
on 2011-03-13
13:30:23
| Converting gfx made on PC
Hi I'm playing with C+4 palette and some pixeling doing it all on Timanthes and Grafx2 on Mac.
My question is what is the easiest way to convert it to Multicolor and FLI modes?
I try a converter associated with plus4emu but it for some reason tries to dither and scale down my pics. I do my pixeling with exact c+4 palette taken from Vice and I to try to apply Mcolor and FLI restrictions to my pics more or less but the results after the conversion are really lame iMO
any hints on work pipeline (preparing the pic, converting, fixing) will be highly appreciated.
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