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Posted By

JamesC
on 2014-01-27
12:40:10
 Re: V364 / 264 between +4 / 16 between 116 ROM checksum differencies - are there any?

"Really I must to say that 264 series is very different to other Commodore computers.
In my mind is always Q: Why the 264 series failed?"

The 264 series did not fail -- Plus/4 World and Commodore16.com are testaments to its popularity. wink

The 264 series, as originally envisioned by the Tramiels, were two machines: a low-cost 16k "learning" machine and a fully-featured 64k "business" machine. Neither was intended to compete with the C64's status as a "game" machine.

However, shortly after Jack Tramiel showed the 264 at Winter CES (January 1984), he and his sons left Commodore. With no Tramiels to guide the company, Commodore mutated the 264 project to where it no longer resembled Jack's vision.

Tramiel's original US plan (European plan may have differed):
US$49 -- Commodore 116
US$199 -- Commodore 64 for homes
US$249 -- Commodore 264 for business (customer would select one built-in program appropriate to their needs)
If Tramiel had authorized the 232 and V364 for production, they would have fit in at US$149 and US$299.

What Commodore actually did (European markets may have differed, I don't know the 116's retail price):
US$99 -- Commodore 16 (in VIC-20/64 "breadbox" case to cut costs even more)
US$199 -- Commodore 64
US$299 -- Commodore Plus/4 (with 3+1)
Effectively, Commodore raised the prices of the 264 series $50 from Jack's plan.

Stores in the US did not educate customers. We compared pamphlets or looked at the box. The 16 looked like a 64, the Plus/4 was sold as a 64k machine PLUS built-in software. The 64, while not as pretty, had more software and accessories available.

Why would a possible Commodore 16 customer pay $99 when they could get 4x the memory for $50-100 more? And why would a possible Plus/4 customer pay $299 when they could get a comparable machine, only lacking built-in software, for 1/3 to 1/2 less?

It did not help that the 264s were not accessory-compatible with the 64. We could not use the 64's tape drive (1530), we needed a 1531. We could not use standard joysticks at $10-15 each, we needed the special Commodore 1341s at $25 each. The 64's readily-available 1541 disk drive supposedly wouldn't work on the 264s "because the 16 and Plus/4 disk drive uses a different plug" -- which IS true of the 1551, but US dealers didn't have 1551s to sell. The 1551 disk drive was only sold in Europe, and not until a year after the Plus/4 and 16 were available!

Almost 30 years on, thanks to the Internet, we finally learn the background stories behind the 264 series. Check Bill Herd's c128.com for a few, and watch his YouTube videos. In one of his videos, he states that the 128's "64 compatibility" arose from the Plus/4 and 16 not being compatible with any other Commodore machines.... so in a way, the Plus/4 is responsible for the 128 being 3 computers in one. happy

FWIW, the 7501/8501 are software compatible with the 65xx other than memory locations 0 and 1 -- these are on-processor registers, just like on the 64's 6510 and 128's 8502. Otherwise your comparison is correct.



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